: My 2001 STS' Repair History



jadcock
05-29-07, 02:29 PM
Not to bore you with all the small details, but I had my dealer print out a repair history of my 2001 (it's still under warranty), and there were a lot of normal-looking things, like PCV valves, tire balance, etc. But very curiously:

On 5/28/2003, at only 26714 miles, "J1307 - PISTON, ROD AND/OR RINGS - ONE CYL - BOTH BANKS - REPLACE". One cylinder, both banks...does that imply that one of the crank throws maybe had a bad bearing in it, and they replaced the bearings and/or both rods on that one crank throw?

Then,

On 10/31/03, at 33357 miles, "J1840 - ENGINE, UNIVERSAL - REPLACE". Holy cow, did they replace the entire engine? Seems coincidental that this was only 5 months after the first service...think maybe they messed something up in the original engine and that required the replacement?

I guess it's good that my engine only has 25000 miles...that engine compartment sure did look clean when I bought the car!

thu
05-29-07, 03:24 PM
It sounds like the piston and rod replacement didn't solve the problem they were trying to fix so they R&R'd the entire engine assembly.

You might want to find out if they replaced it with a new or overhauled/rebuilt engine. If it's a rebuilt, you'll want to know if it was Timeserted or not.

Ranger
05-29-07, 09:57 PM
If it was under warranty, I would guess they replaced it with a new factory engine.

jadcock
05-30-07, 07:34 AM
I was making the same assumption (that a "new" engine was installed). On the same date as the engine replacement, this appears:

"Z5000 - DEALER/RETAILER TRADE (PART OBTAINED LOCALLY)"

I assume that means the dealer didn't happen to have a new engine setting around, and they procured one (hopefully a new one) from a local dealer, instead of ordering a new one through the procurement channels (probably to expedite the repair).

I would hope they wouldn't install used/reman'd parts during a warranty repair.

Interestingly, the intermediate steering shaft has been replaced, as has the entire exhaust system (it's listed as EXHAUST SYSTEM, COMPLETE). I assume that means cat-back. I'm also going to assume this is because of rust-out, but that would surprise me. No history of accidents in Carfax, and underneath, everything looks very straight/clean.

Ranger
05-30-07, 12:13 PM
Hmm, can't imagine what that means. I can't imagine that any dealer would have a Northstar sitting around in the parts dept.

jadcock
05-30-07, 12:59 PM
The other repair on that trip was a:

"E8061 - TIE ROD END AND/OR ADJUSTER SLEEVE - LEFT - REPLACE"

The Z5000 message was not part-specific, so it could possibly have been referring to the E8061 repair.

Submariner409
05-30-07, 05:59 PM
:highfive: You may be very fortunate in having a "late" '03 engine assembly with the (late '01+) roller cam followers. The passenger side end of the "rear" cylinder head and somewhere near the "front" valve cover should have a sticker/stamp which gives the build sequence of the assembly. The FSM has the code breakdown, or the dealer can do it for you. Complete exhaust system? If it's an '03 also, the chrome tips would be different from an '01. As Sgt. Schultz would say: "Verrrrry interesting...!" BTW, CARFAX is very misleading.....they have only incidents reported by state and local registration and DMV, sometimes local dealer info, and do you think that the previous owner would inform them that he/she had doinked the car and had it fixed ????? An overworked body shop wouldn't be likely to report the accident, either.....

AJxtcman
05-30-07, 08:42 PM
This is very amusing to me.
very funny.
jadcock PM me your VIN and I will look at the NOTES.

jadcock
05-31-07, 07:44 AM
:highfive: You may be very fortunate in having a "late" '03 engine assembly with the (late '01+) roller cam followers.

Was there a running change in the 2001 timeframe in the roller cam follower design? All 2000+ engines have the roller cam followers -- but if there was a running change later in that generation, to a different design, I didn't know that. I know where were some non-trivial changes in 2003 somewhere (like piston changes), but I didn't know anything about the cam followers in particular.


The passenger side end of the "rear" cylinder head and somewhere near the "front" valve cover should have a sticker/stamp which gives the build sequence of the assembly. The FSM has the code breakdown, or the dealer can do it for you.

Thanks for that, I'll see if I can find anything.


BTW, CARFAX is very misleading.....they have only incidents reported by state and local registration and DMV, sometimes local dealer info, and do you think that the previous owner would inform them that he/she had doinked the car and had it fixed ????? An overworked body shop wouldn't be likely to report the accident, either.....

I know that Carfax can be very faulty. The fact that it did or didn't say anything isn't conclusive, but it's one data point in the picture. Combined with the overall condition of the car, and the fact that it's been under warranty since new and I would ASSUME that all work would have been done at the dealer, there don't seem to be any anomolies (save for the engine transplant).

jadcock
05-31-07, 07:45 AM
jadcock PM me your VIN and I will look at the NOTES.

Done. Thanks for any info you can provide.

Submariner409
05-31-07, 11:16 AM
RATS! typo............'00 cam follower change...... Sorry.....Hope AJ can track down the engine origin. I know CARFAX isn't the cat's meow, but I expected a bit more for the $. At least I have a complete registration history......

jadcock
05-31-07, 06:01 PM
I found the decal on the right ("rear") cam cover:

10LLB L21016704

1257220

Not sure of the first line, but the second line appears to be a GM part number.

AJxtcman
05-31-07, 10:14 PM
Either the first or second time the customer complained about oil consumption the dealer checked out the car and used a PCV valve labor op to cover a rental car.
This was done on 02/07/2003 and at 21808 miles
.
The next time that the customer complained about oil consumption. They used the PCV valve labor op again to cover the rental again.:mad2:
This was done on 03/17/2003 and at 23831 miles. about 2K miles and 40 days
.
The next time in the dealer installed an updated set of piston rings. I do not know if they measured the bores and what the reading were.
This was done on 05/28/2003 and at 26714 miles
The op code is for 1 ring set, but then you have add ons.
.
Next time in he had a engine mount installed.
.
The next time in he complained about oil consumption. The dealer got authorization from GM to replace the engine. Quote "PER BLANK SAID TO INSTALL NEW ENGINE CUSTOMER HAD NEW RINGS INSTALLED AND VEHICLE STILL USED OIL AFTER 10K MILES"
This was done on 10/31/2003 and at 33357 miles
NOTE NO RENTAL CAR.
.
The dealer must have bought the car from him as a trade in NOT A BUY BACK!!!
.
Next repair was a MOLDING, REAR DOOR
on 11/19/2003 and at 33700 miles. NO RENTAL The dealer owned the car?
.
Next repair was in GREENSBORO, NC
One of the repairs was a battery.
Sitting on the lot?
This was on 02/18/2004 and at 36638 miles
.
.
.
I will start a new thread about Oil consumption :mad2:
I read an article from a major ring manufacture that stated something like 80% of all internal engine drag is from the RINGS.
The Ring manufactures needed to cut the drag to improve fuel economy and block life. YES BLOCK LIFE!! In the 80's the rings would wear the block out in 100k miles and the rings would be junk. The block would have a ridge so big you could not get the pistons out with out cutting it off. Plus all the block grindings would go in to the oil pan and into the oil.
.
.
OK do we all understand this was NO GOOD.
.
the rings have gone through several changes since the 80's
.
Now GM and in particular Northstars use low tension nitrided steel Barrel Cut Top Ring.
The second ring is coated cast iron Hooked Groove Compression Ring.
The third is a oil ring.
.
The engine will burn oil!
The engine will last longer!!
The engine will develop sticky rings if the combustion camber pressures are not raise on a regular basis!!!
Then the engine will drink oil!!!!!

You Must Run WOT from time to time!!!!!!!!
.
This will not hurt the engine, but if you don't it will.
.
If you don't think you should have to do that you have two options.
Pay some one to do it!!!!!
#2 Buy a 4 cylinder car and then get up to speed getting on the freeway!!!!
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I will go into more detail about rings and cylinders and the future, but I will start a new thread.

Submariner409
05-31-07, 10:30 PM
:D AJ !!!! We are using low tension standard gapped stepped moly rings and s/s rail oil rings in our Olds 455/462 marine engine rebuilds. EXACTLY the same bore wear as you observed : NONE !!! We use Keith Black (mainly) pistons and some other goodies. Just finished a .060 over boat engine with 9:1 compression that dyno'ed out at 520 hp on 87 octane E-10, Comp flat tappet grind, Edelbrock dual plane QuadraJet, at 5350 rpm. Bigger is better...

jadcock
06-01-07, 07:34 AM
The original owner was a lease, in Cinci, OH. The second owner bought it in Greensboro (the car somehow made the journey, maybe through dealer trading). They traded it in in Greensboro early this year (for a new Cadillac I'm sure) and I'm the third owner. The original lease may have ended shortly after the engine was replaced, which may be why the free loaners stopped after that. Or maybe the original owner was tired of dealing with the oil consumption and got out of the lease early.

I was curious about all the PCV valve replacements. I guess that clears that up. My local dealer actually just installed ANOTHER front motor mount. I didn't ask for it, but the oil pressure switch was faulty (kept throwing a code) and when they replaced that I guess, they noticed the motor mount, so they replaced that as well.

I think most of us here (myself included) understand the benefits of some measurable oil consumption, and the need to perform WOT "therapy" every now and again. Obviously, not everyone out there does, though, and I'm sure Cadillac has been in this situation a few times (where a customer demanded a new engine, etc).

So AJ, are you confirming that GM replaced the engine with a NEW engine (vs. a rebuilt/used one)?

Thanks again.

AJxtcman
06-01-07, 08:11 PM
So AJ, are you confirming that GM replaced the engine with a NEW engine (vs. a rebuilt/used one)?

Thanks again.

GM Has NO Re-man northstars. GM does not recommend boring the block.
Part # 88894239 - ENGCL37GW Was installed

1997BlackETC
06-03-07, 11:09 PM
Sounds like maybe they put in a junkyard engine. The rear end blew on my Chevy truck that is still under warrantee and they are putting in a junkyard rear end in it this week. Guess its the way GM does things these days.

jadcock
06-04-07, 07:31 AM
That's ridiculous; I wouldn't accept a used axle under warranty. My folks had a few axle issues with a 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee and Jeep installed two new axles for them (both rear axles).

Why do you say it appears they put a used engine in my STS? Sounds from AJ like it was a new engine.

ted tcb
06-04-07, 10:13 AM
I cannot imagine anyone accepting a "junkyard" engine on a 33000 mile Cadillac.
The owner likely insisted on a new crate engine, or buy back my car.

Submariner409
06-04-07, 11:40 AM
:stirpot: jadcock......I just returned from a trip to my Cad dealer after setting up my OnStar conversion. The service rep said that they had replaced two Seville engines in '01 and '02, and, after having received the OK from GM warranty, the NEW engines (long blocks) arrived from GM in Michigan. He flatly stated that they cannot install used anything under an in-house (dealer) warranty repair. He did say that some outside repair franchises will ask if you will accept remanufactured parts. Personally, I wouldn't put a USED engine in anything until I had rebuilt it myself.

jadcock
06-04-07, 03:17 PM
Thanks for that bit of information. From everything I can tell (especially the CLEANLINESS of the engine -- looks BRAND NEW), it's a new engine. I wonder, since it was replaced in October of 2003, does it have the same "updates" that the MY2003 engines had (for example, as I recall, a slightly different piston and crankshaft, maybe rings also)? I would imagine that if the engine was installed in October of 2003, and those changes started in MY2003, which would have started in the summer of 2002, maybe the engine is new enough. I don't know where I'd find a "date code" on it though. AJ, can you tell by the serial number of the engine when it was manufactured?

AJxtcman
06-04-07, 04:10 PM
Sounds like maybe they put in a junkyard engine. The rear end blew on my Chevy truck that is still under warrantee and they are putting in a junkyard rear end in it this week. Guess its the way GM does things these days.

GM does not allow for USED parts to be installed under warranty.
.
WAS IT UNDER WARRANTY??
SERVICE CONTRACT?????:rant2:
.
Service contract will send the dealership used parts!!!

AJxtcman
06-04-07, 04:12 PM
Thanks for that bit of information. From everything I can tell (especially the CLEANLINESS of the engine -- looks BRAND NEW), it's a new engine. I wonder, since it was replaced in October of 2003, does it have the same "updates" that the MY2003 engines had (for example, as I recall, a slightly different piston and crankshaft, maybe rings also)? I would imagine that if the engine was installed in October of 2003, and those changes started in MY2003, which would have started in the summer of 2002, maybe the engine is new enough. I don't know where I'd find a "date code" on it though. AJ, can you tell by the serial number of the engine when it was manufactured?

I will let you know

AJxtcman
06-04-07, 04:19 PM
GM Has NO Re-man northstars. GM does not recommend boring the block.
Part # 88894239 - ENGCL37GW Was installed

#88894239
Call the dealer and they will tell you