: Oil (lots) in No. 2 cyl



dhm37
05-22-07, 03:33 PM
'98 STS with known bad heating problem when bought. 150K mi. Put in new crank & rod bearings and new rings. Big inserts. EGR cleaned, etc. Smoked (oil) after reinstall engine. New Cat (figuring, correctly, that old one was badly coated and wouldn't burn off). Still smoked, badly, after deceleration. New valve stem guides. Smoked just as bad, especially after deceleration. Exhaust port for #2 cyl juicy. All others dry. Replace burned exh valves on #2. Smoked after warmup sitting in driveway. Bad! Lots of oil in #2 when pulled for burned valves. Also when pulled for last time (4th time). Cylinder bore seems solid (can't see any crack. Oil therefore must get to cyl a) through valve stem route, or 2) cracked head, it seems.

I have had the engine out four times. Before I put it back together with a different (reworked head), is there any other way oil can enter cylinder except by rings, cracked cylinder insert, valve stem path, or crack in head? No water in cyl, just oil. Has me baffled.

I had redone a '96 STS at 112K and did nothing to heads, which were fine, and that car is running fine. So, lulled into trusting that heads normally OK. This car had been driven into a creek, apparently, which damaged fins in rad and condensor, causing massive heating damage. So engine had more miles and rougher treatment. Should have reworked heads initially, I guess, but water under bridge.. Still, how can lots of oil get into cylinder except as I have listed?

Any thoughts appreciated.

AJxtcman
05-22-07, 06:58 PM
Two things to look at.
First thing is the outside of the guide. Yes the outside. I have seen about 4 valve guides damaged on the outside. They get damaged on the outside when they are installed. They get gouged.
.
Next is a broken ring or stuck ring. A simple compression test would determine that or a leak down test.
.
.
You could have a PCV system malfunction, but that would be 7 and 8 unless the engine has dropped down on the right side of the car. Not likely

dhm37
05-22-07, 07:55 PM
AJxtcman,
Thanks for the quick response. New input. I have the head off and noticed on cylinder wall a shallow wide scoring up and down. Now I think I may have installed oil ring upside down. Book sez that will cause oil ring not to spin and will cause scoring. As for scored valve guides while installing, I will discount that since the scoring would have caused problem some 150K miles ago - scoring would not have increased with mileage on outside of seats (I reason).

So, my question is: how bad of a cylinder will scoring would it have to be to cause large amounts of oil to be sucked into cylinder, such that when head is removed, there a couple of tablespoons of oil standing on piston. And, the smoking does not get going until engine is hot, when pistons are tightest in cylinder. If sucking up the wall, it would seem that the oil would flow more with engine cold than hot?

That puts me back to thinking I have a cracked head, even though I cannot see a crack. Probably not surprising, I guess, since such cracks usually take some kind of test (pressure for aluminum) to find, I understand. My pressure test (with big commode plunger on cold engine) indicates no leak. Not very scientific, but seems effective.

The oil ring problem will need to be fixed if the block is not already shot. The scoring mark is hard to see, but it can be felt. I am thinking of putting the other head on, and see if cracked head was it and get it smogged and licensed. Then worry about the cylinder problem at my leisure. Right now, can't get it licensed, and that is a real drag ;-).

Thanks again,

dhm37
09-25-07, 01:51 PM
A follow up in case anyone is interested. Fixed the upside-down oil ring - which had caused one of the thin spacer rings to get entangled with the accordian oil ring such that the steel spacer ring was forced out and was gouging the cylinder wall - replace the two exhaust valves that had become badly encrusted, and it is running like a top. The book was not very clear about the orientation of the oil ring ends - they MUST point up.

clarkz71
09-25-07, 03:08 PM
5 times huh, where are you working on this car? Do you have a lift?

dhm37
09-27-07, 06:00 PM
Did the work in a small one-car garage at home. No lift. Made a dolly to hold the cradle, lifted body off cradle with hoist, put a pair of 8 inch castor wheels on 4x6 beam bolted to the front cradle cushion holes, pushed body into driveway while doing engine work on engine stand. Got pretty good at putting cradle in and taking it out. By myself. Be 70 years old next week. Have a 97 engine on stand now and a 96 body in that driveway now. The 98 runs like a house afire. These STSs are an old man's hot rod, for sure. Plan on doing a '97 soon, if I can find really good body that has heating problems for good price. When I die, all of my kids will each have a redone STS, I guess. Meanwhile, I run a small computer software development company in order to afford the parts ;-).

clarkz71
09-27-07, 06:13 PM
That's impressive, how do you get the body past the cradle and into the driveway?

Ranger
09-27-07, 09:15 PM
Did the work in a small one-car garage at home. No lift. Made a dolly to hold the cradle, lifted body off cradle with hoist, put a pair of 8 inch castor wheels on 4x6 beam bolted to the front cradle cushion holes, pushed body into driveway while doing engine work on engine stand. Got pretty good at putting cradle in and taking it out. By myself. Be 70 years old next week. Have a 97 engine on stand now and a 96 body in that driveway now. The 98 runs like a house afire. These STSs are an old man's hot rod, for sure. Plan on doing a '97 soon, if I can find really good body that has heating problems for good price. When I die, all of my kids will each have a redone STS, I guess. Meanwhile, I run a small computer software development company in order to afford the parts ;-).
:worship: HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

zonie77
09-27-07, 11:44 PM
I am impressed!

We did a lot of it similar to the way you are doing it.

I've got a friend who's 83 and still workin on cars.

Where are you located?

dhm37
09-28-07, 08:08 AM
Zonie77,
I read your posts as I did my first one - the junk yard assembled 96 w/95 engine. My dolly is powerfully solid with hard, fixed wheels that "skid" on the garage floor, making turning it with a push at a corner easy. Even so, I get a pretty good workout, which I need, when doing one of the cars. Right now I have a 97 engine on the stand trying to figure out the design of the new style rear main seal, and corrtect way of installig it. May go back to the old style.

Submariner409
09-28-07, 12:03 PM
ClarkZ.....Strange question. Did you read his post about the hoist?

clarkz71
09-28-07, 12:05 PM
Yes I did, but If your in a one car garage and you lift the body with an
engine hoist, the cradle/engine is in front of you. You can't slide the powertrain to either side. So how does the hoist/body get past it far enough to drop it down on the 4X6 with wheels?

dhm37
09-28-07, 02:58 PM
Yes I did, but If your in a one car garage and you lift the body with an
engine hoist, the cradle/engine is in front of you. You can't slide the powertrain to either side. So how does the hoist/body get past it far enough to drop it down on the 4X6 with wheels?
.
The garage is one car wide, but is longer than normal. The cradle is pulled forward after the lifted body is blocked up and hoist is backed off, collapsed, and moved in out of the way of the cradle as it is pulled out. Then the 4x6 with wheels is attached to body, it is lowered with the hoist, and pushed back out of the garage. No sideways space. And this could not be done if the garage was not longer than normal one-car garage. A nice big two car garage would be heaven! A lift would be even better.

clarkz71
09-28-07, 03:01 PM
Thank you, I was trying to picture doing this in my "normal" sized
one car garage.

dhm37
10-08-07, 02:56 PM
I believe it was Zonie that had a post about his cradle dolly that gave me the inspiraiton to build one. My design is a little different. being very low to the ground (about one-quarter of an inch clearance, and built so that when the cradle is on it, the legs of my "Big Red" hoist can slip under the cradle and over the dolly when lifting the engine off of the dolly, or lifting the entire cradle with the hoist.

The wheels are hard (nylon, I think), and as I recall, are rated at 600 lbs each, and are the same diameter as the width of a 2x4. Construction is out of redwood for lower weight. The "V" shaped top is designed to pick up the the front bar of the cradle, while at the rear of the cradle, the V is wide enough pick up the rear of the cradle while narrow enough to allow access to the cushion bolts. It also does not interfere with the exhaust pipe on the 96 STS engine shown. With a 98, I had to use some shims in the front to get match the cardsl height.

Having the dolly low was a necessity since the small garage has only a little over seven foot ceiling, a clearance problem when lifting the body off the cradle/dolly.

The castors on the 4x6 are shown in a couple of the pics. The long threaded rods pick up the nuts where the cushion bolts go. The use of the cators allowed me to push the body out of the garage to make room for working on the engine.

clarkz71
10-08-07, 05:00 PM
Very impressive.

tateos
12-06-07, 06:31 PM
Very Nice Write Up And Photos - Thank You!