: Northstar Oil Change Procedure



JoeT1224
05-09-07, 08:35 PM
OK, don't go hiding under a chair or start banging your head against the wall, I know what kind of oil I want to use in my car. :thumbsup:

This summer I plan to do my first oil change on my Eldorado. I have picked up the FSMs from eBay and it doesn't seem too complicated. But I do have a couple of questions:

1. I've been told that the oil filter is hard to remove and that an old-fashioned "sling type" removal tool would not suffice. What should I get and where can I find it?

2. The FSM states that I should fill the oil filter with oil before installation. This is where I'm concerned about screwing up. How much oil do I put in there and do I fill it in the center hole or in the surrounding holes?

I was just curious, because I don't want to ruin my car but I'd feel a lot better doing some things myself. So I figure, I may as well learn while I'm able. Your help (and any tips) is much appreciated!


Joe

codewize
05-09-07, 10:25 PM
I don't know why the Eldo would be different but my DTS is very easy access to the filter like most cars. If it's difficult to access then a can type wrench will work best. Fits around the bottom of the filter and attaches to a ratchet.

It has been a best practice to pre fill the oil filter forever. Just dump the oil in there slowly, it will fill up quick then settle down. Normally they hold about 3/4 of a quart. It doesn't have to be all the way full, you're just trying to prevent oil delay to the engine.

If the filter is empty at start-up then you're running with 0 oil pressure to the engine until the filter is primed. Pre filling prevents this and delivers oil to the engine right away, as it should

Ranger
05-09-07, 10:32 PM
I think Codewise meant "cap" type wrench. Be advised that there are small differences in size so try one on the new filter when you buying it.

FWIW, I have never prefilled the filter. Certainly won't hurt to do it though.

chazglenn3
05-09-07, 11:49 PM
I have never pre-filled either.

eldorado1
05-10-07, 12:46 AM
90% of engine wear happens at startup when there's no oil pressure. Imagine dragging that out to 20 seconds while the oil filter fills up.

JoeT1224
05-10-07, 11:57 AM
Thanks to all of you for giving me your words of wisdom. :)

Joe

codewize
05-10-07, 04:23 PM
Yeah that. I didn't really know what they were called. One of the metal ones that fits on the end of the filter. :)


I think Codewise meant "cap" type wrench. Be advised that there are small differences in size so try one on the new filter when you buying it.

FWIW, I have never prefilled the filter. Certainly won't hurt to do it though.

Exactly. That's something I was taught the first time I did an oil change and I've done it ever since.

90% of engine wear happens at startup when there's no oil pressure. Imagine dragging that out to 20 seconds while the oil filter fills up.

ewill3rd
05-10-07, 07:31 PM
I use a tool similar to this one:
http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/KD-3253.html

Except mine is nicer, deeper and fits a couple different size filters.
It works perfectly on the delco PF61.

You certainly can fill the filter, just put the oil in the center slowly until it won't take any more. The oil will saturate the filter and drop. No it is not necessary but you certainly are welcome to do it if you want.

The biggest problem with getting a filter off is the moron who put it on before you.
As soon as the seal on the filter kisses the block, you only need turn it 3/4 of another turn.
Don't install the filter with a filter wrench or overtighten it by hand.
All you have to do is snug up the seal, it doesn't hold the engine together!
I have gone through some serious nightmares due to morons overtightening filters!

HTH.

codewize
05-10-07, 10:13 PM
Ohhh yes. Good tip. Hand tight is usually good enough. If you over tighten you'll wreck the gasket I used to always go had tight and just a little tiny snug with the wrench.

The first time I did that on the N* I wrecked the gasket on the filter, or at least I think I did. All I know is it leaked like hell and the remedy was changing the filter and only tightening by hand.

If you have doubts just check it after the first day of driving.

ewill3rd
05-11-07, 07:24 AM
They have a picture on the side of the filter that shows you how to install it.
It used to be plain English... as I described above.
Has anyone ever read the label on an oil filter? :D
Now it has an icon and a fraction, so you have to think a little bit when you look at it.
At least the Delco filter is that way.

Onalaska
05-11-07, 07:43 AM
Remember to lube the oil filter gasket with new engine oil before installing the filter. This is easy to do if you are filling the filter with new oil before installing it on the car.

JoeT1224
05-11-07, 07:50 AM
You people are great thanks so much.

ewill3rd, that is exactly how the instructions are displayed on the PF61 filter. To hell with those, I'd rather read what you all have to say. :cool2:

Oh, and is that end cap remover (the one you gave me thhe link to) the correct size for my filter? If it is I'm going to go ahead and order one.

Joe

ewill3rd
05-11-07, 09:13 AM
I am not sure that is the specific one for the 61.
This is the EXACT one I have, it is available online through Snap-on.
It is the best one for GM filters I have seen on the market.
It has the best fit of any of the other ones I have tried and it works like a charm.

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=11523&group_ID=1534&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

I like the tool warehouse better, but I am not sure about the socket I pointed out before.
I know the one above is perfect.
It fits two sizes, and I think it is only like 8 bucks.

Dooman
05-11-07, 10:05 AM
I've always only used hand-strength on mine, actually all 4 of my vehicles. Fortunately I can reach them good enough to get a grip and am able to remove and replace with peace of mind. Always lubed the seal but never pre-filled.. maybe nowI will.

jadcock
05-11-07, 01:47 PM
90% of engine wear happens at startup when there's no oil pressure. Imagine dragging that out to 20 seconds while the oil filter fills up.

As long as the oil pressure light isn't on, the engine has sufficient pressure.

I've never pre-filled a filter. The light doesn't stay on in any of my vehicles for longer than maybe 1 second after the engine starts. Even with a dry filter, the pressure is built almost immediately.

eldorado1
05-11-07, 03:05 PM
Northstar pumps 8qt/min @ 1000rpm. From a previous thread, the oil filter takes 3/4 qt. Round that up to 1qt for the oil pickup that drained back, and youve got ~8 seconds with no oil. Maybe another 10 seconds with oil foam until it purges.

eldorado1
05-11-07, 03:13 PM
You're of course welcome to wear down your engine any way you want...

But if it's important enough to dedicate space to in the factory service manual.............

thu
05-11-07, 03:30 PM
Yes, I remember seeing this in my 2003 STS FSM. I used to do it all the time in my 2000 Ford SuperDuty Diesel Truck. That oil filter is like the size of a coffee can.

Prefilling the oil filter is easy, takes about 30 seconds. While you're filling it, you pretty much lube the threads and rubber gasket at the same time.

Submariner409
05-11-07, 06:35 PM
:alchi: Ewill.....did an oil/filter change on a Cat 3208 marine installation today....had to drive a HUGE screwdriver through the first filter and use it like a breaker bar to twist it loose. PITA. 18 quart engines. BTW, Pennzoil 15W-40 Long Life is rated as a diesel truck oil, so has more of our beloved ZDDP. Since PZ is a Shell product, wonder if some of their commercial/marine stuff is close to Rotella? (This particular pair of 3208 TA's burns 44 gph at 2800 max RPM, 18 knots (21 mph). How's that for "gas" mileage?).......and, yes, we prefill the filters, all 4 of 'em...

ewill3rd
05-11-07, 07:31 PM
I wish I could say I have never put a screwdriver through a filter to get it off... I have done it more times than I care to remember.

Ranger
05-11-07, 07:39 PM
You know, I can't remember ever having to do that. I have to wonder what is the bigger cause of that. Over tightening or failure to lube the gasket? My money is on the gasket lube.

ewill3rd
05-11-07, 08:58 PM
If you don't wipe off the filter adapter on the engine before you put the filter on the o-ring lubes itself when you tighten it up.
After a few thousand filter replacements I can tell you it is because some schmo overtightened the filter because they are afraid it will fall off.

Ranger
05-11-07, 09:02 PM
Yeah, I've known a few torquemiesters.

AlBundy
05-11-07, 09:05 PM
Yea, maybe they didn't what a drip of there Amsoil to drop out as they would lose $$$.

Ranger
05-11-07, 09:07 PM
:histeric: At $7.25/qt it is truly liquid gold.

JoeT1224
05-11-07, 10:34 PM
I went ahead and ordered the filter remover from Snap-On, which is the first tool that I've ever owned that bears a name other than Craftsman lol.

It costs that much for that silly Amsoil concoction??? Wow. Just wow.

Oh and if someone's scratching his head asking "what kind of oil is he going to use?", I'll be using Mobil 5W-30 and the good ol' PF61 oil filter.

Thanks gang!

Joe

eldorado1
05-11-07, 11:55 PM
I wish I could say I have never put a screwdriver through a filter to get it off... I have done it more times than I care to remember.

The last time I tried that, the filter can started to tear. It must have been on gooooooood.

ewill3rd
05-12-07, 10:19 AM
I remember one I did in some dude's driveway back in the day, my strap type wrench crushed the filter, then I went to the screwdriver method and it tore a quarter of the way through the metal before it even tried to let go.
What a mess that was... man I was hot!

JoeT1224
05-13-07, 08:40 AM
OK so let me recap how I'm going to do this, if you see something wrong (I don't think there is!) let me know.

1. Drain the oil, dispose of old oil filter.
2. Fill new filter with oil, lubricate the gasket, and install.
3. Fill engine with 7.5 quarts.
4. Bim bam boom, we're back in business.

Joe

JimHare
05-13-07, 09:10 AM
Joe, if you fill the filter, don't put 7.5 quarts in - there'll be a half quart or so in the filter. Just buy 7 1-quart cans, fill the filter, and put the rest in the normal way. Check the level in about a week or 250 miles of driving, and see where things are.

You're actually better off a half-quart UNDER the full capacity, than a half-quart OVER.

JoeT1224
05-13-07, 11:26 AM
Thanks Jim. Actually I was about to ask that if I were to fill the oil filter if I would still put 7.5 in there, which seems to be what the FSM said. But, since some people just put an even 7 I'll go ahead and do that in addition to filling the filter.

Joe

ewill3rd
05-14-07, 06:57 AM
N* engines are really bad about holding oil in the top end.
After you fill and run the engine, wait about 3-5 minutes to verify the oil level.

TexasCadillac
06-14-07, 01:53 AM
I have filled the new oil filters for 30 years changing oil. Fill the filter up and let it soak up oil and the fill filter up again before installing it. Be sure to wipe grit and oil from where the oil filter seals to the engine. good luck. When I was 15 changing oil in my 56 Chevy I forgot to put the oil plug in and as I was pouring the new oil in after 2-3 quarts I happened to notice looking beside my engine to the floor that oil was pooling on the concrete floor. LOL hmmm I then put the drain plug in. lesson learned, it never happened again. TexasCadillac :bigroll: Texas Cadillac :)
I don't know why the Eldo would be different but my DTS is very easy access to the filter like most cars. If it's difficult to access then a can type wrench will work best. Fits around the bottom of the filter and attaches to a ratchet.

It has been a best practice to pre fill the oil filter forever. Just dump the oil in there slowly, it will fill up quick then settle down. Normally they hold about 3/4 of a quart. It doesn't have to be all the way full, you're just trying to prevent oil delay to the engine.

If the filter is empty at start-up then you're running with 0 oil pressure to the engine until the filter is primed. Pre filling prevents this and delivers oil to the engine right away, as it should

Mountie
06-15-07, 12:27 AM
Not much to add to this conversation, all the correct stuff. I do have to add is to fill the filter. It takes about 3 times before it is filled to the center hole, and it won't spill. I like the Fram with the grip stuff. About 8 quarts.

Cadillacboy
06-15-07, 03:25 PM
I have filled the new oil filters for 30 years changing oil. Fill the filter up and let it soak up oil and the fill filter up again before installing it. Be sure to wipe grit and oil from where the oil filter seals to the engine. good luck. When I was 15 changing oil in my 56 Chevy I forgot to put the oil plug in and as I was pouring the new oil in after 2-3 quarts I happened to notice looking beside my engine to the floor that oil was pooling on the concrete floor. LOL hmmm I then put the drain plug in. lesson learned, it never happened again. TexasCadillac :bigroll: Texas Cadillac :)

I also know and see that they can vacuum out all the oil in the engine without unplugging the drain plug .However they admit "old school" method is better way to go :)

Mountie
06-15-07, 08:16 PM
I don't know if there is a safe trick to pour a solvent ( Marvel Mystery Oil?) to rinse the oil pan sludge. ...There shouldn't be too much sludge if using Synthetic?

But that always bugged me when changing oil, that it isn't really a clean drain.

Ranger
06-15-07, 08:42 PM
There shouldn't be any sludge even with conventional if you do regualar oil changes.

Submariner409
06-15-07, 09:46 PM
:stirpot: "Sludge" is a holdover term from the '50's and early '60's and refers mainly to the nasty crap which used to build up in the valve cover area due to poor crankcase ventilation. The term is used now as a buzzword to scare you into snake oil and black magic. With today's well-ventilated engines and high detergent oils, sludge is practically nonexistent in all but the most severe of neglected engine cases. (25,000 miles + of 20 mph before Granny takes the thing to Pukey Lube) As always, there's no mystery to an efficient oil change: Do it after a LONG road trip when all the nasties are suspended in the lube oil. PITA, but let the car cool as the oil drains down out of the upper engine areas for 10 minutes while you assemble the necessary goodies. Jack it up, pull the plug (Playtex rubber gloves) and let the oil drain for an appreciable time. Pull the filter and create more mess. Fill a new filter with some of the X-quarts your engine calls for and screw it on just past strong hand-tight. Install the drain plug, lower the car, and finish the fill with the remaining oil. Check, check again, and start the car. The oil light should go out within 2 seconds. Look for leaks. Done. Have a rum and tonic. (BTW.....I love MMO, but for today's engines, it's not necessary. I have a gallon CAN on the shelf...)

z06bigbird
06-16-07, 10:52 PM
If you are really obsessive compulsive, smear the gasket on the new oil filter with oil. Oil expands rubber. That will assure a good seal--if you tighten the filter properly.

z06bigbird
06-16-07, 11:06 PM
OK, don't go hiding under a chair or start banging your head against the wall, I know what kind of oil I want to use in my car. :thumbsup:

This summer I plan to do my first oil change on my Eldorado. I have picked up the FSMs from eBay and it doesn't seem too complicated. But I do have a couple of questions:

1. I've been told that the oil filter is hard to remove and that an old-fashioned "sling type" removal tool would not suffice. What should I get and where can I find it?

2. The FSM states that I should fill the oil filter with oil before installation. This is where I'm concerned about screwing up. How much oil do I put in there and do I fill it in the center hole or in the surrounding holes?

I was just curious, because I don't want to ruin my car but I'd feel a lot better doing some things myself. So I figure, I may as well learn while I'm able. Your help (and any tips) is much appreciated!


Joe

First time, eh??

Here is how you do it. You will need 7.5 quarts of oil and an eye dropper. Notice on the filter that there are about 15 holes around it plus the center hole. Open each of the 8 oil quarts. Do not use the 5 quart container that some stores sell.

Take the eye dropper and carefully put exactly 1 oz of oil from each container into each hole in the top of the oil filter. Be extremely careful that you do not spill any oil into the center hole. Also take particular effort to make sure that each hole gets its one once. Repeat process until a light goes on and you ask yourself: IS THIS GUY FOR REAL????

FORGET THE ABOVE INSTRUCTIONS. Listen to others. I am just trying to get your going. LOL.

Ranger
06-17-07, 11:59 AM
If you are really obsessive compulsive, smear the gasket on the new oil filter with oil. Oil expands rubber. That will assure a good seal--if you tighten the filter properly.
You should always lube the gasket before installing it, but not for that reason. I am sure that an oil filter gasket is made from a rubber that is impervious to deterioration from oil.

z06bigbird
06-17-07, 06:06 PM
You should always lube the gasket before installing it, but not for that reason. I am sure that an oil filter gasket is made from a rubber that is impervious to deterioration from oil.

Since my dad told me that in about 1957, I believed him.

Now is the time to believe you. Why should we continue to lube gasket???

Thanks,
Ed

Submariner409
06-17-07, 09:13 PM
:thepan: For the same reason you apply anti-seize to bolt threads: to prevent galling, or in this case, "dragging", of the gasket on the filter adapter surface as you tighten the filter.

Ranger
06-17-07, 10:26 PM
Couldn't have said it better. Also so it does not bake onto the surface and stick during removal.

mortison
06-18-07, 11:21 AM
Lubing the gasket is something I've always done to make a better seal. I've never prefilled the filter but it does sound like good advice.:thumbsup:

Mountie
06-18-07, 01:31 PM
There shouldn't be any sludge even with conventional if you do regualar oil changes.

Silly me........ Even more silly, I forgot ( while posting the last post), When I replaced my North* last year, the oil pan was cleaned.... and it was not that dirty.:highfive:

C66 Racing
06-20-07, 12:33 AM
Lubing the gasket is something I've always done to make a better seal. I've never prefilled the filter but it does sound like good advice.:thumbsup:


I've got three LSx motors now, all with the filter facing straight down and I've been prefilling the filter on all of them... and I pre-lube the gasket as well for the reasons listed by submariner409 above.

JohnnyO
06-22-07, 11:53 AM
Of all the luck, the Cardomain pic I need is "Not Available" right now, but I have a claw-type filter wrench that a 3/8" ratchet extension fits in. Works on many size filters, great on ones that hang straight down with limited space like the N* or my Explorer. Got it several years ago at NAPA.

JohnnyO
06-23-07, 09:03 AM
http://www.zjstech.net/~library/15563/FilterWrench1.JPG

Cadillacboy
06-23-07, 01:10 PM
What a thread lol .Some tune ups done today .New oil 5W30 ,new oil filter,new fuel filter ,new air filter .
It remained 19% oil life to the monitor

Flynn
06-24-07, 01:55 AM
One other tip. Make sure the oil is hot when it's drained. Hot oil has all the impurities in suspension, plus it drains faster. Also, the new oil added will be heated by the still-warm engine. Maybe not a big deal, but it helps in winter to get a quicker "refill" of the oil galleries on start-up.

Being a borderline "obsessive", I've always prefilled the filters and spread a thin film of fresh oil on the seal ring, as well as clean the mating surface on the engine oil filter mount.

fpmesiIII
10-06-07, 11:50 AM
quick question, do you need to replace oil drain plug after each oil change?

this website says to do this

http://www.wikihow.com/Change-the-Oil-in-Your-Car

Replace the drain plug on the oil pan. Don't forget to install a replacement gasket. Take care not to cross the threads (http://www.wikihow.com/Reinstall-Screws-and-Bolts).

Submariner409
10-06-07, 05:16 PM
;) "Replace".........If their context is correct, they're trying to say "Put the drain plug back in.........". You shouldn't need a new gasket, but if you do, any large parts store has 3-paks of lots of different sizes.