: LT1 doesn't pick up well



425 Dual Quad
05-03-07, 01:56 PM
Hi!

I have an LT1 in my 94 FWB [as we all do!] and the pick up from standstill isn't all it should be. Basically if you are too heavy with the gas it seems the traction control cuts in and custs the motor, holding it back for about 5 to 10 seconds or so.
Very dull:yawn:
Is there anything that can be done to alleviate this or is it normal?

Thansk
Nick:)

dkozloski
05-03-07, 09:03 PM
Hi!

I have an LT1 in my 94 FWB [as we all do!] and the pick up from standstill isn't all it should be. Basically if you are too heavy with the gas it seems the traction control cuts in and custs the motor, holding it back for about 5 to 10 seconds or so.
Very dull:yawn:
Is there anything that can be done to alleviate this or is it normal?

Thansk
Nick:)
Learn how to feather the throttle on the launch. TC cuts in when the wheels spin. The best traction comes just before it breaks loose. It takes lots of practice to be a good drag racer. That's why John Force and the guys make the big bucks.

caddycruiser
05-06-07, 10:13 AM
There's really no way around the traction control, at least permanently, aside from just flicking the switch in the glove box to turn it off when you get in.

People have been trying, tuning wise, to figure out how to change the operation of the TC, but to no avail yet.

It is an annoying thing, I know, especially when you just try to get going and all of a sudden the gas pedal is pushing back at you, and the light's on because it sensed slip, but in iffy weather, that's also turned out to be a good thing.

So for now, just turn it off whenever you get in the car (resets everytime the car is turned off/on), and be on your way.

425 Dual Quad
05-08-07, 02:19 AM
Oh well thanks a lot. I guess I'll just have to learn to live with it! een if it is a bit dull!
My old Corvette didn't have the problem. You could literally stamp on the pedal and it was off! I guess it had a locking rear axle and 285 wide tyres though which helped considerably.

Did they make the 93-6 FWB's with a LSD axle?

regards Nick:)

N0DIH
05-25-07, 09:29 AM
Nope, If TC was part of the car, G80 Posi is not allowed. Stupid in my book....

Wish it was. But I just installed a posi in my mine, but it is an older axle and and has now wheelspeed sensors so I lost my TC and ABS, but the added traction with the posi is FANTASTIC, FAR better than the TC system. Even in the rain I can still get a bit agressive on launch and no have any issues, with the TC and open, it sucked all the time no matter what.

So my factory axle is going to be rebuilt with a tighter posi and the factory 3.42s (the axle in now is a 1980 with 3.08's and posi). So I will get ABS/TC AND Posi.... Can't get better than that. And if my gears are wiped, I might go with 3.73's or 3.90's..... WWWWWWWWHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

With the TC active, you can do fairly well, just need to find that threshold of traction to keep the TC system from kicking in.... I think the car is still slightly faster if the TC is off and you push it just a touch, as the small block likes to be revved.....

425 Dual Quad
07-03-07, 04:33 PM
NODIH,

Yes I know bad news this TC. Does it work on the front wheels as well with the ABS - sort of a stability control - or just the rears. If it's just the rears then not so great!

I guess a posi in the rear is the way to go. What size axle do they have and can you get a posi carrier only for the gears? It's a lot easier than changing axles!
I got one for my '65 Skylark project car [I'm stuffing a 425 dual quad Nailhead into it!]

Did yo get your posi done? If so how did it go?

cheers, Nick

N0DIH
07-03-07, 05:32 PM
The TC applies the brake of the offending wheel spinner, knocks down engine timing, and yanks the throttle back. It is VERY agressive.

It compares the difference of front wheel speed to rear wheel speed, making the assumption that the front wheels aren't gonna spin....

LT1 cars all had 8.5" axles unless it came in a Limo, then it got the bullet proof 9.5 semi floater. (no, I don't recommend it as an upgrade, it is VERY heavy). Parts are common everywhere. I see them all over swapmeets, complete with 3.42 or 3.73 gears (used) that are half decent. But for carrier, look to Randy's ring and pinion, you can get a posi there, or Summit, or Jegs, and then you have to have it installed.

Do NOT look to get the PowerTrax unit or LockRight. They are quite dangerous, and should never be considered for on highway driving, they run locked all the time like a spool, and can cause very easy spinouts on slick roads (wet and icy/snowy). And they tend to fight you in slow gentle curves like highway turns, they want to fight you and stay locked up.

I would personally look at a Eaton posi (clutch posi, rebuildable), they are OEM type units for many. GM has also used Auburn (cone posi, not rebuildable). I like the Eaton design. They are solid and can be biased up to as high as 800# between the axles, stock GM is 300#, you can do 200# and 400# also.

In general the tighter the more it will fight you. My posi now is pretty tight, even in tight corners I have to give it more gas to keep the car moving, or goose it and light them up.... I like it!!!! I can really really get on it hard now where before I always had the feather the heck out of the one wheel wonder....

Given a choice, posi vs TC, posi wins by a LONG shot....

But swapping in a posi unit is not something the average backyard joe can do, it takes special tools (which aren't terribly expensive) and time and room and experience is really worth it. But don't be dicouraged, I am going to try it and maybe get my 3.42's setup with posi this weekend! We'll see how much time I have. I haven't done it, but plan for at least 8 hours to work.

425 Dual Quad
07-03-07, 06:48 PM
NODIH,

Hi - so it's an 8.5" axle. Don't they go way back to the late sixties?

I've got a 8.2" in my Skylark with the 3.05 gears. I remember now that if I wanted an Eaton posi for the Skylark [which at the time was a favourite choice] it only came for 3.55 gears and up in the 8.2" or for most gears in the 8.5" - or somehting like that. Basically to go the easy route sticking with my gears in my axle I had to use an Auburn unit. It's not rebuildable which actually isn't so bad since I can't see me trashing it and I later found out that is what the factory Skylark GS cars with the 401 motor came with - an 8.2" axle, 3.05 gears and an Auburn posi.

So putting a posi in the '94 FWB would be about the same as doing one in a Chevelle/ Monte Carlo/ 2nd Gen Camaro/ Firebird or similar - fine! It would be good to see how your's goes. Good luck for the weekend!

regards
Nick

N0DIH
07-03-07, 09:22 PM
Yup, the 8.5 (and 8.6) is just a grown up 8.2.... The 8.6 is also known as the 8 5/8". I believe 8.6" parts fit in a 8.5" case and vice versa. But a true 8.6" case is beefier than a 8.5".

dkozloski
07-04-07, 04:33 PM
The TC applies the brake of the offending wheel spinner, knocks down engine timing, and yanks the throttle back. It is VERY agressive.

It compares the difference of front wheel speed to rear wheel speed, making the assumption that the front wheels aren't gonna spin....

LT1 cars all had 8.5" axles unless it came in a Limo, then it got the bullet proof 9.5 semi floater. (no, I don't recommend it as an upgrade, it is VERY heavy). Parts are common everywhere. I see them all over swapmeets, complete with 3.42 or 3.73 gears (used) that are half decent. But for carrier, look to Randy's ring and pinion, you can get a posi there, or Summit, or Jegs, and then you have to have it installed.

Do NOT look to get the PowerTrax unit or LockRight. They are quite dangerous, and should never be considered for on highway driving, they run locked all the time like a spool, and can cause very easy spinouts on slick roads (wet and icy/snowy). And they tend to fight you in slow gentle curves like highway turns, they want to fight you and stay locked up.

I would personally look at a Eaton posi (clutch posi, rebuildable), they are OEM type units for many. GM has also used Auburn (cone posi, not rebuildable). I like the Eaton design. They are solid and can be biased up to as high as 800# between the axles, stock GM is 300#, you can do 200# and 400# also.

In general the tighter the more it will fight you. My posi now is pretty tight, even in tight corners I have to give it more gas to keep the car moving, or goose it and light them up.... I like it!!!! I can really really get on it hard now where before I always had the feather the heck out of the one wheel wonder....

Given a choice, posi vs TC, posi wins by a LONG shot....

But swapping in a posi unit is not something the average backyard joe can do, it takes special tools (which aren't terribly expensive) and time and room and experience is really worth it. But don't be dicouraged, I am going to try it and maybe get my 3.42's setup with posi this weekend! We'll see how much time I have. I haven't done it, but plan for at least 8 hours to work.
Your remarks on Lock-Rite are very interesting. I've had a Lock-Rite in my Ford Ranger for years and drive on ice covered roads for six months out of the year. In my experience it is about the least invasive LSR I have ever encountered. It doesn't click nearly as loud as a Detroit locker but it can get grabby and make bad noises on sharp turns in slush. The best Posi I ever had was a factory unit in a 1960 Chev El Camino. With one tire on glare ice and the other on pavement you could do burnouts on the pavement. Next best was a 1966 El Camino that sometimes required a pull on the handbrake to set it. The worst was a Mazda RX-7 Turbo which was almost like a completely open rear end. I tore it down to find out why and found the factory had installed the discs upside down but it didn't make any difference when I corrected it. For the most part, if a posi is really effective it makes the car drive like you're on the trolly tracks.

N0DIH
07-05-07, 01:00 AM
I still haven't figured out the diff (pun intended) in the Lock Rite to PowerTrax, but they seem to be nearly identical. I have read lots of people complaining about them when on slick surfaces with low traction causing many issues with spinning out, even driving very very careful. If it is a 4x4 Ranger then that is probably why you did ok, but a 2WD with both back tires LOCKED on ice would be quite dangerous. Even a really tight posi (like the 800# springs) would be pretty dangerous as well.

A snow packed road is probably relatively ok, but icy roads are a nightmare just about anytime. I have had my times on ice and don't relish it. Snow packed roads? Love em! I rather enjoy lots of snow. I hate the mess the salt does to them.....

Almost got stationed at a radar unit in the Army north of Fairbanks. Sorta wish I did, but I had a newborn and they changed my orders for Colorado Springs, CO....

Yes, I am the nut who thinks my 80 Trans AM is a good snow car, posi, V8 Turbo power and good tires and it was a ball!! Now I go for my 94 Fleetwood, but the ultimate is my 99 K2500 454 Burb.... G80 locker and all....

dkozloski
07-06-07, 01:54 AM
The Ranger is 2WD. Lock-Rite is made by Powertrax. It works fine on glare ice or hard packed snow, you just have to know how to pedal the throttle. It's just like driving a stock car on a flat track; you have to let it roll through the corners and get on the throttle at the exit. The Army hasn't had radar sites in Alaska since Nike days. They were decomissioned in the 1970's. They're all Air Force. Most of those have been decomissioned as well.

N0DIH
07-06-07, 10:25 PM
They are the Firefinder radars, AN/TPQ-36 and AN/TPQ-37. They are still there.... Not long range, they are artillery tracking.

dkozloski
07-07-07, 02:58 PM
Ah so! The old counter battery trackers. Still used for Cope Thunder exercises.

N0DIH
07-07-07, 05:19 PM
How far north is that unit? I am curious just where I would have ended up.

Got any picts from the area?

I have been watching the show Deadiest Catch on Discovery and rather enjoy the glimpses of the Bering Sea. Talk about a brutal job, but the pay is good for the 2 weeks of torture....

We often camped out on old Nike/Hercules sites in Germany and other places, and even got a hold of the old Nike/Hercules power generators to give us 115v@400 Hz for the radars so we could save on running our 60KW 400 Hz Precise generators (8 gallons of diesel per hour....).

I miss working on the big radars, they were a blast.... most people can't imagine the enormous power out from them. They would fry you at close range, at 157m, they still had power levels of >10mW per cm^3. That is power boys and girls.... And 5000+ antennas that direct it.... Ahh things I did in my old Army life...

dkozloski
07-07-07, 07:23 PM
I think they're south of Fairbanks on the Donnelly Range. -50F would be pretty ordinary. Cope Thunder is all over the northern part of the state. I worked on navy missile fire control CW radar where you could be in the beam for no more than 2 seconds out of every 30 second period if you were at least 1100 feet away. We could track a seagull and take him right out of the sky. I preferred precision tracking radar to surveilence.

N0DIH
07-07-07, 07:49 PM
These radars are arty trackers. If it flies, and meets ballistic tragectory, it notifies the operator, else, it maps it in the clutter map and keeps tabs on it to see if it changes.

I want Mythbusters to try to do a radar show to see if you can really kill a bird with a radar....

dkozloski
07-07-07, 11:03 PM
It took us less than a minute before a seagull went all spastic and dropped. The illumination portion of the beam put out 5KW CW in a .9deg. beam. We could light up fluorscent lights in houses from miles away. On one occasion we fired all the photographic flash bulbs at once in the Base Exchange.

There were thousands of bird carcasses picked up around the BMEWS screens at Clear AF Base, Alaska. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Clear_Air_Force_Station_Alaska.jpg

N0DIH
07-08-07, 12:20 AM
ROTFLMA! The AN/TPS 58 team I worked with (I was the DS/GS radar support) kept a couple fluorescent tubes in the shelter to do night sighting in, they could illum at 100M, but I don't know if they ever tried more.

Most of the time if we ever radiated there weren't houses for miles and miles around.

But there was the time the FF guys were running the radars pointed at the antennas up at NORAD. About 2 weeks after they started they got a high res satellite phote with the radar circled and a polite "please stop".... They got the idea....

Then the base commanders wife and one of the brigade commanders wives saw the radars pointing over the housing area and had a conniption so they ended up moving the whole radar unit to another motor pool so they couldn't even bring the antenna up close the housing area anymore...

I have heard the radar guys tossing a bag of microwave popcorn over the antenna with a fishing line and popping. This radar is a scanning beam and is hard to narrow down to focus enough to hit something that small at that range. You really needed to be out farther.

caddycruiser
07-08-07, 05:55 PM
Hey N0DIH...not 100% related to this thread, but I just emailed you about some tuning and wanted to post here too in case you didn't check it for a while.

Otherwise, seems like some more interesting developments here, whatever they might be regarding axles and such.

N0DIH
07-08-07, 08:29 PM
Sorry, I was looking at it thinking I really highjacked this thread! Sorry guys!!!

I'll check my email and get back to you

425 Dual Quad
07-17-07, 07:00 PM
Hi, yes I was thinking that some while ago! No matter I think we completed the discussion on why the traction control cuts in so agressively on these LT1s.

cheers! Nick

Cadillacboy
08-28-07, 11:23 AM
That's what I too noticed when I first drive my FWB . The pedal pushes against you when TCS is on. I remember posting a thread on this as well . Anyway, I had my PCM tuned and it really picks up superbly ! .I think stock was good too considering the size of the vehicle .
I love LT1 power more than as ever :D
I set the limit up to 150 mph ;)

N0DIH
08-28-07, 01:11 PM
How is your throttle cable adjusted? The throttle cable adjustment is important on these cars, especially with TC, as there is another cable to take up slack with.

I can't say I would allow 150 mph with non V rated tires, and NO WAY with FE1 suspension. After sitting in one, not even driving, there is NO WAY I would take that more than 100 mph, even then, that is flat out scary. FE2 minimum, maybe a lowered FE2 (which simply is the FE4 Impala suspension with DeCarbon shocks and 17in V rated rubber). I have had mine to 133, and it was fine, that is stock FE2 with 9C1 shocks, which I feel are a bare minimum shock valving. So be careful if you don't have FE2 and going fast.

Cadillacboy
08-28-07, 03:11 PM
I think ,throttle cable is just stock adjustment . If possible I would like to have a drive by wire instead .
I am aware of speed and tire combination and thanks for your warning as well. I hit over 108 mph (just to test the PCM tune ) and backed off at 115 mph . That was just a superb feeling . I know those cars aren't designed to speed up especially w/ the wheels combination .
I set up 150 mph but that doesn't meant I will hit a race track and do such high speeds .
I might also post a thread for the following issue but you can answer here as well.So, I don't wanna change my rims because they look so beautiful .The funny thing is that my tires are not V or Y rated and I don't know if there is an avaliable V or higher rated tires for my stock rims . That's where shoe pinches . What can I do ?
17" or 18" rims might work greatly but those wheels wouldn't look as beautiful as my stock Brougham rims . As to the suspension , I don't wanna loose my bouncy ride . I don't know but I just like it :D
With FE2 , my ride might be un -Cadillac in other words a harsh ride which I wouldn't like .
With new tune up TC comes on where it was on with the stock PCM but throttle is more responsive and accelerates quicker :)

N0DIH
08-28-07, 03:24 PM
Avon does make a V rated 235 70 15. But @ $202 each, owch. And summer only.

Mine isn't harsh at all, but nice and controlled. No mush. The FE1 car I sat in that is in my front yard is awful (might have blown shocks). But the FE2 cars are nice and controlled. The Impala SS and the Cadillac FE2 ride identical except for the shocks and 17in wheels. Just lower ride height.

I set my speed limiters to 147 mph with a 143 restore so it would not hit the limiter too hard and hurt the engine. RPM limiters are hard on engines, just not as hard as overrevving....

Cadillacboy
08-28-07, 03:58 PM
Thanks for your inputs ,I really appreciate that :thumbsup: . Price for the tires aren't a factor but it sucks if they're only for summer .
Can you compare FE2 to '00 Seville STS ? I mean STS is a sporty car however the ride is not harsh at all yet comfortable .
If I happen to convert the suspension to FE2 , can I have a softer or harder ride to the STS ? That's what I wanna know .
For instance: 96Fleetwood has a harsh suspension for my taste from what I get but his car handles pretty well .
I also take my foot off the gas pedal therefore I let the car shift up and relieve the engine . May be this is not necessary but I do it time to time .
You could also slightly feel when the car shifted up prior to PCM tuning .Now, it is softer at the same speeds :thumbsup: