: Tire Noise?



DopeStar 156
04-22-07, 08:34 PM
It's really noticable at 40 MPH, a whirring sound comes from the front of the car and stops completely at a dead stop. I was thinking something from the belt drive but it's not heard in park with the engine revved. It was heard in neutral while rolling though, any thoughts as to what this sound could be?

z06bigbird
04-22-07, 08:40 PM
Check the whirr fluid; it might be a little low.

LOL

Cadillac Giovanni
04-22-07, 09:15 PM
I'm not sure, I think 40 is when the torque converter lock up kicks in, but if the noise is from the front of the car, and it goes away when it stops...

That's a tough one on me. I have a loud whir from the AC compressor clutch bearing, but that's constant as long as the engine is running. Is the noise speed dependant, or will it occur when you rev the engine in park as well?

Midnight Eldorado
04-22-07, 09:36 PM
Your wire wheel cover is a little lose. Clean the inside of the hubcap, put a few drops of oil on each of the 5 little contact points where the cap meets the wheel, and tighten the hubcap well.

Old Fleetwood
04-22-07, 09:38 PM
As Big Bird said, the Turn Signal Fluid may be overfilled.
Seriously, however, could you have sticky front brakes and the sound is one or more of the pads dragging on the discs making that sound?:confused:

DopeStar 156
04-23-07, 12:17 AM
As Big Bird said, the Turn Signal Fluid may be overfilled.
Seriously, however, could you have sticky front brakes and the sound is one or more of the pads dragging on the discs making that sound?:confused:

I did notice the car pulling to the right when I hit the brakes, you might be right. The sound is speed dependant, not RPM dependant which leads me to believe it's completely unrelated to the engine. I might have a draggy brake pad, how do I check for that?

JTraik
04-23-07, 09:10 AM
Jack up the front of the car and try to turn each of the wheels by hand, if you dont notice any differnces then I would suggest a brake bleed.

Old Fleetwood
04-23-07, 10:57 AM
My wife's Delta 88 had a really weird problem with the front brakes.
One of the lines had the INSIDE of the line COLLAPSE so that the fluid was trapped in the cylinder, causing the pad to remain against the disc and drag.
In other words, the fluid wouldn't go BACK after a stop.
Could that be your problem?
If so, it's an easy fix. Just replace the hoses to each front wheel.
Cheap and easy. But a pain in the butt to bleed, etc.

DopeStar 156
04-23-07, 12:39 PM
My wife's Delta 88 had a really weird problem with the front brakes.
One of the lines had the INSIDE of the line COLLAPSE so that the fluid was trapped in the cylinder, causing the pad to remain against the disc and drag.
In other words, the fluid wouldn't go BACK after a stop.
Could that be your problem?
If so, it's an easy fix. Just replace the hoses to each front wheel.
Cheap and easy. But a pain in the butt to bleed, etc.

Maybe, I had a brake line replaced a few weeks ago when one split in the rear. It's possible the shop may have messed something up or not bled the lines properly. If that's the case I'll have the shop take care of that.....

90Brougham350
04-23-07, 01:20 PM
I've had the brakes on mine done twice now, first the fronts, and then a year later the rears. They never tighten the wheel cover enough so it whirrs. It's an easy fix, and when mine was making the whirring sound, it had exactly the symptoms you're describing.

DopeStar 156
04-23-07, 06:34 PM
Wheel covers aye? Hmmmm...... I'll have to check..... I'm at Ms. DS's right now so I don't have the Fleetwood with me. I'll check tonight....

90Brougham350
04-23-07, 10:59 PM
Yeah, that's been my experience. The mechanics who do my brakes are probably afraid to tighten the covers too much, so they're a little lose when I get the car back. Apparently aluminum and steel don't like to be right next to each other when they're spinning.

Gwokable
04-24-07, 12:48 AM
Sounds like your wheel bearings are spent.

It isn't coming from anything attached to the crankcase; that continues to spin while you're at idle.

What happens wheel bearings go is they allow the disc to wobble; the pads don't set right and your car begins to turn in one direction. Pads can also be an issue; you may have a leak allowing air into the brake line on one side; this can be observed by checking your fluid every time you drive and looking for a consistent drop.

The main difference between the two failures is that when your brakepads go on one side, your car always goes to that sidel; doesn't matter if you're going 10 or 50. When the wheel bearings go, you don't notice it until you break.

Pull the tire off, pull the caliper off, then spin it; if it makes bad noises and check the pads and caliper for signs of leaking. If it is the wheel bearings, replace the bearings, races, seals and grease since it sounds like they are spent.


What happens when the wheel bearings go is they will make a whirring noise.

Get timkin, they're good. Buy 3 cans of brake cleaner and a 3-4 full sheets of towels. You will need them. It's also a good idea to replace your lug bolts and nuts if necissary.

Finally, if you do pull the disc, make sure you tighten the wheel nut all the way down until it stops turning (forces the disk all the way onto the spindle), back it off, tighten it with your hand, put your ratch on there, tap the end of it with your index finger until it turns every so slightly, then install a new cotter pin. The wheel bolt races should line up, if they do not, then it is on to tight or too lose; DO NOT tighten it up more than 1/4th of a race. Coat the wheel bolt with grease before installing the cap; this will protect it from rust. Then spin the sucker a bunch; it will be stiffer and will take time to work itself in over the course of a week.

If you do one side at a time, be prepared for the car to go in that direction when you break (due to the stiffer wheel bearing grease).

DopeStar 156
04-25-07, 12:53 PM
I wonder how much a wheel bearing will cost me?

Old Fleetwood
04-25-07, 03:13 PM
No more than $10.00 to $20.00 per side from what I can see.

Jonas McFeely
04-25-07, 03:26 PM
Dont you need a press to do a bearing job?

Old Fleetwood
04-25-07, 03:36 PM
Not if you know hot to use a drift and aren't a total klutz.
Also, you can use the old race to smack the new one most of the way into the bore.
Well, don't SMACK it. Gently TAP it, going all the way around it as it SEATS its way into the bore.
AND MAKE SURE YOU HAVE PACKED GREASE INTO THAT MUTHA BEFORE YOU INSTALL IT!

DopeStar 156
04-26-07, 11:13 AM
Not if you know hot to use a drift and aren't a total klutz.

So......... I'll be taking it to a shop then......

Old Fleetwood
04-26-07, 04:17 PM
If you'r not comfortable doing it yourself, yes. Me? I was a real pig about getting my paws full of grease at your age. I used to have withdrawal symptoms unless my fingernails had grease under them.
Oh, God. Them were the days. Just an old fart now.:crybaby:

Motorboat
04-26-07, 04:27 PM
^Me Too. Thought I could fix anything. Of course I knew everything then, forgot most of it now.

DopeStar 156
04-26-07, 07:16 PM
If you'r not comfortable doing it yourself, yes. Me? I was a real pig about getting my paws full of grease at your age. I used to have withdrawal symptoms unless my fingernails had grease under them.
Oh, God. Them were the days. Just an old fart now.:crybaby:

I do too, but I don't wanna **** anything up worse than it already is. Do a search for the time I was changing my fuel filter and broke my fuel line......

Also my shop is telling me there's an inner and outer wheel bearing. Which did I break? They quoted me an hour and a half's worth of labor for the job.....

JTraik
04-26-07, 08:12 PM
Dope, this is a very simple job and it is very hard to actually break anything. Someone has listed some steps but I will elaborate for you.

1: Jack car up on the side you will be working on, whatever side you are working on be sure to orient the wheels as if the car would be turning away from whatever side you are working on. This will help the process.

2: Remove the wheels and then remove the calipers using an allen wrench or ratchet (size escapes my mind...) After the calipers are removed, remove the caliper brackent, regular hex bolt and again the size escapes me....

3: Remove bearing cap, remove cotter pin from the castle nut under the cap and then remove the nut and the washer behind it... the washer may be a little stuck from grease suction. The disc hub should easily pull off, if it does not easily pull off use a dead blow hammer to "ease" it off, if no dead blow hammer than cushioning the blow from a normal hammer will do just fine... this is all assuming the hub is stuck which is unlikely.

4: Bearings will fall right out, at least the front one will, the back bearing will be restricted from coming out by the bearing seal, you will see the seal. If your doing bearings its time for a new seal so you can go ahead and rough-house that seal out of there using a screw driver and hammer or seal remover if you have one.

5: Now the tricky part, the races... The races are located where the outer bearing (small one) seats in the hub and same for the inner bearing (larger one). You will need a punch of some sort to get these out. You will tap the races out from inside out of the hub (you will understand when you get to this point). Looking into the hub, you will see a lip on the races from which you can beat them out. Using the punch just work your way around the circumference of the race until it pops out, it will require some work.

6: Once the old races are out it is time to clean the inner cavity of the hub. Most of the old grease can be removed by hand but you may want to use some chemicals or rags to get the residual out, this isnt necessary but I really like having clean grease in there.

7: Now you have a nice clean hub ready for new components! The new races will be installed first, these will be installed the direct opposite way that they were removed. You can be a klutz and still install these races correctly. You can either install them with the punch or you can use an object that will cover the whole top part of the race and smack it in gently... i like the punch method because i seem to have better control that way.

8: Once the races are installed it is time to pack the new bearings, if you dont have a bearing packer you can do it just as well by hand, just a little messier. To pack the bearings scoop some grease out of the container and force it down into the roller cage of the bearing, make sure the grease gets in between the rollers, do not apply the grease by rubbing your hand with the motion of the rollers, it doesnt get in there very well that way.

9: Once the bearings are packed, set them down and pick up the grease again, I like to fill the hub cavity roughly half full with grease, when the hubs are spinning, centrifugal force will cause the grease in the cavity to be forced out towards the bearings, this is important that you do this.

10: Once the cavity is full of a decent amount of grease, put the packed inner bearing (bigger one) into its race and THEN smack in your new seal.... you cannot get the inner bearing in if the seal is in the way. Again just be slightly cautious when installing the seal, they like to bend... do not use the punch in this case, use something that will cover over the whole area of the seal rim and smack it in that way... it will be a little tricky aligning it, but you will get it. Once that inner bearing and seal is installed shove some more grease into that area and then slide the hub back onto the spindle. Now get your packed outer bearing (smaller one) and slide it over the spindle into its proper race....

11: Once all that is done you can slip that washer back onto the spindle against the bearing and screw on the castle nut.... Tightening the castle nut is VERY important. The proper procedure is to torque down to around 30lbs, back off to 0lbs and then retorque to 6lbs... this will line up the castellations with the cotter pin holes, and it actually works almost every time. Install the cotter pin, pack some more grease in there and pop the cap back on.

12: Reinstall your caliper bracket and caliper and you should be all set... I HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you apply Never-Seize to all of the bolts for the caliper and its bracket.... HIGHLY RECOMMENDED. Pop your wheel back on and the lugs and your all set!

Now after typing all that you better get out there and do it!!! I ain't no old man but I have come to appreciate that self repair is a great learning experience no matter how bad you may be at it at first...

Good luck!

N0DIH
04-26-07, 08:31 PM
It isn't hard to do at all, I think it is well covered here, nothing to add! Nothing to be worried about.

I did left front right wheel bearing right after I got my 94 Fleetwood, it was making a lot of noise and got louder fast. It was in sorry shape when I pulled it out. Around ever 2 years you should repack bearings, regardless of miles. Roughly every 30K is best to do. In the Army it was repacking every 6 months on the big trucks (I had a M931 5ton). The grease (GAA) was like oil when it came out.

Something to note: Wheelbearing noise CHANGES WITH LOAD, so turning left or right will change the tone, as does a bouncy road that has the car floating up and down. Note this for sure.

Most people neglect the basic maint that is over and above oil changes. Stuff like differential oil, repacking front wheel bearings, checking bushings, changing trans and power steering oil, greasing front end, etc. Heck, anytime you take it to an oil change shop double check, most new cars don't have grease fittings so they get forgotten about now on older cars. You have 11 of them on the 71-96 B/D body, 70-81 F-Body, 73-87 A/G body and 71-76 C Body. They are rarely done these days....

It is great to learn. And if left neglected can lunch the spindle/knuckle, and cost much much more. Now is a good time to toss in a good synthetic grease like Amsoil or the like. Maybe it was psycho, but my 80 T/A felt faster 60 mph+ with the front wheel bearings repacked in synthetic....

Old Fleetwood
04-26-07, 08:33 PM
Mr. Traik -
Damn Good explanation. Almost as good as the ones in my Mercedes shop manual where they almost went so far as to say "...Pick up 13mm socket wrench from tool box behind work bench at far end of shop and walk ten paces . . ."
Seriously, though, excellent description of a fun job.
What I used to do for seating everything on final, however, was tightening the castle nut almost overtight by feel and then backing off. But that was only after some years of doing such jobs.
Your torque method is a lot smarter and can save rollers and races from spalling from heavy-handed pressure.:thumbsup:

DopeStar 156
04-27-07, 12:48 PM
Found the problem, the caliper is stuck to the rotor. Now how would I go about freeing this baby up?

N0DIH
04-27-07, 03:07 PM
Toss on a rebuilt caliper or rebuild it yourself for a fraction of the cost. Not hard at all.

Usually they start sticking when they have rusted inside some. You can take brakes off and move the piston in and out, but likely it will stick again.

DopeStar 156
04-27-07, 08:01 PM
I'm a little weary of doing brake work by myself because I'm not so skilled with brakes. How much would it cost to have a shop fix the problem? Usually I'm ready to get my hands dirty but with brakes I don't wanna gamble.....

Jonas McFeely
04-27-07, 10:14 PM
I'm a little weary of doing brake work by myself because I'm not so skilled with brakes. How much would it cost to have a shop fix the problem? Usually I'm ready to get my hands dirty but with brakes I don't wanna gamble.....

I paid $50 + core charge($30) for a new caliper for my '85 Seville.I got my $30 back when i brought them the old caliper.I did that work myself,but bleeding the brakes sucked and i dont think i want to do it again.

I say you buy a new or rebuilt caliper and take it up to your local garage and say "here,put this on". I doubt theyd charge you more that $50-$75,and thats on the high side. Good luck.

DopeStar 156
04-29-07, 01:37 AM
I talked to my boss today who was a top notch brake mechanic and he suggested I buy a hardware kit that costs no more than like $10 and do it myself. He said he'd be shocked to find out the cylinder failed because GM brakes are pretty good. He thinks some shit gunked up my front caliper......

Old Fleetwood
04-29-07, 02:58 PM
Could be.
Older Mopars used those damn PHENOLIC pistons.:mad:
I had one get sticky on me late one night driving from NYC to Hartford (60 miles plus) on the LF of my Cordoba. I made it home but it was one real PITA, constantly pulling left.:rant2:
It didn't score or blue the disc, but I was just lucky.:worship:
I got a rebuilt with METAL pistons and replaced calipers on BOTH sides.

JTraik
04-30-07, 11:19 AM
Dope I didnt know anything when I started working on cars.... naturally. Just get in there and do it, it is the only way that you will learn. If you dont want to learn and spend some extra dough, send it down to Gus.



Could be.
Older Mopars used those damn PHENOLIC pistons.:mad:
I had one get sticky on me late one night driving from NYC to Hartford (60 miles plus) on the LF of my Cordoba. I made it home but it was one real PITA, constantly pulling left.:rant2:
It didn't score or blue the disc, but I was just lucky.:worship:
I got a rebuilt with METAL pistons and replaced calipers on BOTH sides.

Phenolic pistons sound like a terrible idea, were they injection molded or pressed?

Old Fleetwood
05-01-07, 08:35 PM
I think it was molded. I could see the parting marks on the damn thing when I "dissected" it.
It apparently wasn't fully finished by the manufacturer (Lockheed?) although it didn't crap out on me until 35k miles after I had the car (bought new in July of 1979).
As I recall, both front calipers were single piston, both of them were unusually large pistons, nearly overlapping the pads.

z06bigbird
05-03-07, 10:40 AM
Try a stetoscope.

Be careful you don't get caught in fan belt or pulleys. One could lose some fingers.

JTraik
05-03-07, 11:25 AM
I think it was molded. I could see the parting marks on the damn thing when I "dissected" it.
It apparently wasn't fully finished by the manufacturer (Lockheed?) although it didn't crap out on me until 35k miles after I had the car (bought new in July of 1979).
As I recall, both front calipers were single piston, both of them were unusually large pistons, nearly overlapping the pads.


Those bastards could have at least machined down the mold lines. Single pistons are the way to go, just one big, simple, powerful unit that locks up the wheels on demand, what else do you need? Do you have any pictures of your Cordoba? I love those cars!

N0DIH
05-03-07, 09:50 PM
I didn't know jack when I started (you should have seen me beating on a GM plastic filled double cardon u-joint....) and getting nowhere....

I got the 76 Olds FSM from my dad when I got the car (76 Delta) and did like he did, read and learn. The FSM is a wealth of knowledge. You can learn soooooo much.

I am sick, I just collect them now from cars I have owned. I have around 12 now. Varying years and models. I snag them from Goodwill, as sometimes they find their way there.

DopeStar 156
05-04-07, 02:04 AM
I picked up the brake hardware kit. I hope this is it.....

Old Fleetwood
05-04-07, 12:29 PM
Mr Traik -
QUICK, LIKE A BUNNY -
Go to
www.allpar.com
and you will see this weeks "special" all about the Chrysler Cordoba.
The photo in the article seems to be almost the EXACT color of my 1979 but the awful aftermarket wheels don't do a thing for it.
I had the factory aluminum wheels which were real featherweights and made tire changing very easy but you had to watch the apes at a garage with power tools very closely since the aluminum called for 80 foot pounds of torque on the lug nuts in a star pattern and not the usual air wrench in a fast circle at 200 lbs.:annoyed:

DopeStar 156
05-04-07, 02:35 PM
Ok wrong again.... apparently the noise is from my tire. I was told it was choppy and that's why it was making a noise. This tire used to be in the rear until I rotated it to the front. How exactly does a tire make that kinda noise?

Old Fleetwood
05-05-07, 09:58 AM
From what I have read and what I have had happen to me:
>CUPPING can happen from alignment or shock problems giving you a "pop, pop" sound. That happened to me.
>BROKEN BELTS can do something similar. I had a brand new car in 1977 and all 4 GOODYEARS (plus the spare) had broken belts so the car waddled like a duck at low speed. Goodyear had a big recall but I'll never buy another GY tire again. You could actually see the WAVES in the sidewall which could probably make a noise under the right conditions.
>CUTS on the tread can make a funny sound. I ran over a can or something many years ago and it cut the tread. That made a weird sound. I guess it was like somebody wearing flip-flops, only at a much higher pitch.
>The weirdest tire problem I evaaar saw was the time I picked up a SIXTEEN INCH PIECE OF WELDING ROD in the tire of my CORVAIR! All that stuck out was the very tip and it looked like a nail.
It acted like a slow leak, until I got to the Shell station near my house. The owner got his pliers when the car was on the rack and pulled - - - and pulled - - - and pulled - - - and pulled and we couldn't f'n believe what came out of that tire.
And those tires were only 14 inchers as I remember !

DopeStar 156
05-06-07, 08:13 AM
Yeah they're full-a-shit..... I put a different tire there and still the same noise, one of my coworkers said it was the wheel bearing. We inspected the outer and it looked fone so that leaves the inner bearing. I'm gonna have to pick one up this week and swap it out. Any instructions for me?

Old Fleetwood
05-06-07, 11:50 AM
DS -
Back on the last page, Mr. Traik gave some fine directions on how to change bearings. Go give it a shot. 'Twon't hurt and can be habit forming. But if you think you're gonna muckitup, the job might run about $50 to $75 plus parts for both sides - and that's here in high tax Connecticut.
It's a fairly simple job. Even Midas or Monroe can do it. Get an estimate.
I learned by being a Gofer around a bunch of guys building rods when I was a kid and I guess that's what warped my life ever since.;)

DopeStar 156
05-06-07, 11:26 PM
Oh that's right he did, sorry, redundant......

I might give it a shot myself either Wednesday or Thursday but I have to buy an allen wrench to take off the brake caliper. The biggest one I own is too small. If I decide not to do it myself, one of my coworkers said he'd put it in with me on Saturday. Either way, I'm not paying a shop to do it for me.......

Old Fleetwood
05-07-07, 08:05 PM
Damn good idea if you can get a friend to give you a hand - ESPECIALLY if he has a good tool kit!:thumbsup: