: 81 Deville 4.1V6 2 Timing Chain Dampers?



Rooinek
04-21-07, 09:47 AM
Folks,

This continues the saga from my other thread titled ""81 Deville 4.1L Crankshaft Bolt Size".....a few days ago.

On referencing the W/S manual during timing chain assembly I see two dampers shown in the diagrams.
There is no text regarding the dampers.
The parts catalogues list a left and right damper.
I dismantled only the left damper and replaced only the left damper.
I did not have a right damper from the start.

Do I need the right damper or is this an alternative for another model using the same engine block?

A replacement right hand damper is available but the two holding bolts are missing.

An early start today came to a dead halt.....

Any input will be greatly appreciated.

The Ape Man
04-21-07, 10:51 AM
Look for a bulliten board for Buke Grand Nationals if nobody comes up with your answer here. Best of luck.

Rooinek
04-23-07, 09:21 PM
Thanks Ape Man,

Yet again some good input from your side.
The Buick folks have not replied with anything worthwhile at this stage.

My friendly Good Year (spent $$$$ over the years there) workshop manager insists I need to restore the missing damper.
He may just insist so as not to lead me into thinking he encourages short cuts, which is why I prefer input from the forums.
The fact my item is missing probably means that someone took a short cut or forgot to re-install it.

I have ordered the part from Rock Auto.
It cost less than the shipping.
I have matched the bolt thread so once I know the length it should all go smoothly thereafter......
The Teen has been very patient and gracious but I can see he wants to get back in his Caddie again.

N0DIH
04-23-07, 09:58 PM
GNTTYPE.org is a great site for Buicks.

The 4.1L and 3.8L share about everything short of pistons. (ok, Turbos and 4.1L's cranks)

Rooinek
04-24-07, 06:58 PM
Nodih,

That was the exact same forum (GNTTYPE.org) I chose after much review of Buick websites out there.

I figured they would know everything after perusing the other posts....

Check out the dismal response in technical matters in the technical discussion.
My post is near the top.

I must have expressed my issue incorrectly as they don't know what I am talking about.

Not to worry though, we are going to add the missing damper and do the job properly.

Thanks.

N0DIH
04-24-07, 07:24 PM
I have a 1980 FSM that might cover some on the 3.8L, but specifically not the 4.1L. But it still might be usefull, the 4.1L should have shared 100%, save pistons, rings, intakes, carbs, and cranks (crank was a turbo crank).

The damper helps the timing chain slack, the buzzy V6's are bad for trashing timing chains in short order, so dampening the vibs there really helps life. Run as thick of a chain as you can too, if you can get an aftermarket one or one like Pontiac ran on the 195 CID 4cyl (1in wide!) was a real help to buzzers.

Are the forums just slow? GN's just that rare now maybe?

http://www.gnttype.org/forums/showthread.php?p=33134&posted=1#post33134

Check this out too:

http://www.gnttype.org/numbers/8687pn.html

Call it the timing chain tensioner, I found lots more references to it that way. I seem to only remember 1 tensioner, but it is has been a LONG time since I have looked at one. I have them in my 1976 Olds FSM and my 1980 Pontiac (but it is a supplement to the 1978 Pontiac). I can look in my 78 Chevy, maybe there (the Turbo Monte Carlo was Buick powered) and see if there is anything.

Ken Mosher is one of the most knowledgeable out there.

I found this at Rock Auto: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?catalog=8&partnum=22244CT&a=FR8-22244CT

JTraik
04-24-07, 09:22 PM
The Teen has been very patient and gracious but I can see he wants to get back in his Caddie again.

Bahh, switch off his nintendo, throw a FSM in his lap, and point outside!

N0DIH
04-25-07, 10:43 AM
There is some great wisdom in that!

Rooinek
04-26-07, 07:08 PM
I have always referred to such items as tensioners but everywhere I looked in parts listings etc they were called dampers.
I figured I should go with the flow.
It's good to see that I am not alone on the outside.

I concur that the second TENSIONER is likely needed to prevent excessive flap which would cause premature wear.
This was probably the reason my chain was so loose with more than an inch play.
The TENSIONER is installed and the timing cover is back in place and torqued.
Eagerly awaiting my new 250 lbs/inch torque wrench which was promised by the weekend.
Please O please do not let me resort to jumping on a power bar and guess the torque for the pulley bolt (225 lbs/ft).
The fuel pump took an hour to put back due to the inner bolt which is almost inaccessible unless you put the car on a lift.
Now I know how, it will take five minutes but the challenge is to remember in five years time.....

I also have to remove the oil pan and re-gasket as the timing cover would not go back with the oil pan section of gasket in place.
W/S Manual did not mention that......

I can encourage and cajole the Teens but not apply force when it comes to the real mechanical stuff.
They are expected to carry out the washing, tire checks, oil changes etc but one needs to enjoy being covered in grease and spending hours in the garage.
I hope it will rub off in time.
The only force applied around here is related to manners, schoolwork and cleanliness.

Have a good weekend folks and thanks again for all the input.

N0DIH
04-26-07, 08:52 PM
I have always done the 150 lb/ft on my wrench and then install the breaker bar for another UMPH. Never an issue. Mechanically isn't an issue. You aren't doing something better by using a 250 lb/ft wrench. There isn't anything to gain (ok, maybe peace of mind). At that torque the point is to not allow it to loosen due to the vibration of the buzzy 6. There is a max value of torque that is for the bolt, more will break it, less it isn't tight. So this in between. It is all is needed. Just to make it tight but not break it. So they needed to spec it to something.