: What a terrible thing I heard last night...



BeelzeBob
04-26-03, 11:06 AM
Two men were standing near a store when a beautiful white diamond, tinted and shining-like-crazy STS pulled up. It was a '98 or new model..

Man #1 said: (shaking his head left to right) What a beautiful car... To bad you can't buy one...

Man #2 said: Why can't you buy it?

Man #1 said: It's just not worth the trouble. They break down too much so their value drops too quickly. I'd love to buy one used just to have - but it's way too expensive to maintain...

Then he went on to explain that if you buy it new, you're okay. But, if you buy it CPO, don't plan on keeping it after the warranty expires. But, don't plan on selling it either - nobody wants to buy it after the warranty is expired...

-----
I think Cadillac really needs to focus on the fact that their cars have this terrible perception that they break down all the time. Even in consumer reports, people never fail to mention about how the cars are costly and break down too often.

Why is it that a 1989 Lexus LS, which has nice amounts of power, has plenty of room and luxury amenities - and is nice to drive - STILL remains reliable with very little cost to the owner.

1989!!

Elvis
04-26-03, 11:23 AM
It's a terrible thing, but the truth hurts. Sevilles have a horrible track record. I told my leasing guy that I was considering one, and he turned himself inside out trying to talk me out of it. This is the same guy who drove nothing but Cadillacs throughout the 70's and 80's and highly recommended them to all of his customers. I don't know when he changed his mind or what caused him to do it.

Not only the mechanical reputation has been tarnished, but the re-sale value is virtually nil. This is probably the primary reason he was discouraging me, but re-sale is a function of reliability.

I switched to wanting a DeVille anyway, and he was a little bit less discouraging. (I didn't tell him that I'm planning to buy instead of lease next time)

Chuck C
04-26-03, 01:05 PM
give it 10 years, then people will forget about caddy reliability

tommyd2
04-26-03, 06:50 PM
I agree my mind told me to buy a Beamer 500 series, but I love the caddy design. I will never buy another one.

Katshot
04-26-03, 07:42 PM
That was supposed to be a private conversation between me and my freind Sal ;)

I figured I'd say it before somebody else did :D

BeelzeBob
04-26-03, 08:21 PM
You'll never buy another what?

Regarding reliability - I hope you're right Chuck.. If they start building cars that run for long periods of time without the need for costly repairs, then yes - in 10 years it's possible reliability will no longer be an issue.. I hope Cadillac decides to address these issues right now, though..

Competition isn't only about design and performance... It's funny how you can find a mint condition '95 ETC - which looks just like an '02 - for $6000.00... That's a real shame.. Classy-looking car for nothing... It might seem like a great deal for the person who buys it that cheap - until it comes time for repairs...

tommyd2
04-27-03, 01:29 PM
I won't by another cadillac, even it Cadillac would call me tomorrow and say they will repair my car for no charge. I would have to really think seriously before purchasing another one. My 93 Blazer which I traded in for my 98 Caddy had 227,000 miles on it and never any major problems after the near customary transmission repair job at 100,000 miles. I think if the repairs were not so expensive on the caddies it would make a big difference. I love the design of the cars, and when they are in good condition they run great.

gspencer914
04-27-03, 01:29 PM
Really though everyone that owns a caddi for the exception of tommyd2, how much problem have you really had. I've had my 98 STS from day 1 and have only put around 700.00 in untimely repairs. This was recently with 80,000 miles. I'd say thats pretty good for a car that has been driven like the northstar was ment to be driven HARD. I've heard the reputation about caddi but most of the people that i hear it from havent owned one just their buddy owned one and told them that. As far a resale value you get what you pay for. If the caddi was serviced like it should be then you will pay alot more for it then a car that you dont have a clue about.

Devil_concours
04-27-03, 01:58 PM
well repairs on most luxury brand costs just as much or more than the caddy. As for the car, it's very hightech, when things are too hightech, there is an increased chance that something might go wrong.

AKPsiMC03
04-27-03, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Sal Collaziano
It's funny how you can find a mint condition '95 ETC - which looks just like an '02 - for $6000.00... That's a real shame.. Classy-looking car for nothing... It might seem like a great deal for the person who buys it that cheap - until it comes time for repairs...


:mad: SHHHHH!!! i bought a 95 ETC for $6000... i dont need to hear that!!! :mad:

Katshot
04-27-03, 03:46 PM
Tommyd2 is like a lot of other Cadillac owners. Usually first time owners and coming from a "non-premium" brand (in this case Chevy). They are not able or willing to accept the maintenance cost difference that a premium brand like Cadillac requires. Of course there are premium brands that have a better track record for maintenance cost/year than Cadillac but most are more costly.
And of course his dealer could also be a major factor in his dissatisfaction with the brand too.

timber6860
04-27-03, 04:27 PM
It's not so much the reliability, it's the cost of repairs at the dealer.
My 89 Seville (4.5) has 185k and runs perfect, with no major repairs except for general maintenance ( I bought with 30k in 92), and my 93 Deville (4.9) has 140k with only front struts (major expensive), and drive axles needing repair .

My 96 Deville on the other hand, just had $6500 worth of work done and it only has 45k (new ac, engine seals, new fuel pump, fouled spark plug, vacuum leak), and the dealer says it's just alot of labor to work on the Northstar, and if you look under your hood you can see that alot of things are out of reach, like the alternator, or the spark plugs.
Luckily I purchased an aftermarket warranty, and they covered most of the repairs, I put out about $1200 on decarbing, trans flush, fuel injector cleaning.
I'm learning what can be done at a reputable shop, and what needs to be done at the dealer.
My point is, a Chevy, or a Chrysler would not have cost as much for similar repairs. Any way, I still like my cars, and still enjoy driving the old Seville as a commuter, but I may get a speeding ticket some day with the 96...

tommyd2
04-27-03, 05:04 PM
I'm upset mostly over what I consider false advertising of the 50 miles with no water. The ads never said anything about head bolts backing out if the car overheats. I looked in my owners manuel and there wasn't any small print in those two paragraphs. I purchased an after market warranty too, but the break down came after the warrenty ran out. IF my car had not broken down I'd be singing Caddie praises like the rest of you guys. There is a saying that says "a liberal is someone who hasn't been robbed yet."

Devil_concours
04-27-03, 07:25 PM
I've been having a lot of problems with a local dealer and their ability to perform a simple repair. Cadillacs are great cars. Very hightech being able to keep up with other current sedans with very near exact platform/engine as 10yrs ago. What i think the problem is that not may ppl are actually qualitfied to perform a repair on the car. Which means there would be limited ppl at very high labor cost. Add that to premium parts which are also recommended for our cars equate to nothing but high repair bill.
Every car has a problem here and there.

As for the strip bolt, i'm not sure if the overheat happens before or after.

PS: I recently got my car completely fixed. Dealer called factory technician and they replaced my engine free of charge.

gspencer914
04-27-03, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by tommyd2
I'm upset mostly over what I consider false advertising of the 50 miles with no water. The ads never said anything about head bolts backing out if the car overheats. I looked in my owners manuel and there wasn't any small print in those two paragraphs. I purchased an after market warranty too, but the break down came after the warrenty ran out. IF my car had not broken down I'd be singing Caddie praises like the rest of you guys. There is a saying that says "a liberal is someone who hasn't been robbed yet."

tommyd2
I dont know if I would consider it FALSE advertising. There are alot of factors that go into the 50 miles no water. If you had old coolant or had changed it to the NON dexcool then it would have created a major problem within the system. On the other hand you did manage to walk away without replacing an engine, thats to say find me another full aluminum block that would withstand an overheat much less an engine that shut down after overheating. I'm sorry that your problem left you stranded and with a big bill at the dealer. I hope that you will someday give caddi another shot, they have made some major changes in the computer systems that control the "safe" mode during an overheat. I'm sure one day caddi and northstar will produce a motor that couldnt overheat if it wanted to. Until then we can only get by the old fashion way after an overheat. WALKING!

George

Katshot
04-27-03, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by tommyd2
I'm upset mostly over what I consider false advertising of the 50 miles with no water. The ads never said anything about head bolts backing out if the car overheats. I looked in my owners manuel and there wasn't any small print in those two paragraphs. I purchased an after market warranty too, but the break down came after the warrenty ran out. IF my car had not broken down I'd be singing Caddie praises like the rest of you guys. There is a saying that says "a liberal is someone who hasn't been robbed yet."

When you're right, you're right. They never figured on that issue.

BeelzeBob
04-28-03, 08:19 AM
I don't think Cadillac can survive if only the rich purchase their cars. They need to make their cars more reliable after the initial sale. If they don't, then nobody will buy them used and there will be NO resale value. My '95 ETC was fairly problematic all the way through - but, it was bearable with the warranty. At 110,000 miles, it got really bad and costed me an average of $700.00 per month - over 6 months time - to maintain.. Even WITH a warranty, that would have been a pain having it at the dealer at least once per month..

I would LOVE a '98 STS - what I can afford - but how could I buy one? I most certainly could not afford the repairs if they were anything like the ETC. I'm not rich - but I work very hard and live fairly well. My only reasonable options are to go out and buy a luxury car that doesn't break down much (Certainly not Mercedes or BMW - but Lexus is fine) - or wait another year or two and buy a newer STS with a few years left on the warranty. But then I can't sell it anyway. So now what?

I bought my ETC in 2000 from my best friend for $20k - I sold it for $8k 2 years later...

I suppose I'm a little too patriotic for my own good. I can't seem to just accept the fact that another country (Japan) can make a Lexus GS430 (competitor of the STS) that has all the same amenities and nearly top the charts in regards to reliability.. All I know is, I love Cadillac and I want them to be on top of the world...

steelerfan
04-29-03, 12:22 PM
Man reading this thread makes me nervous. I bought my first 2K Eldo on Saturday. I didn't buy extended warranty ( $3400 to make it a 100,000 mile 8 year). I love the look of the Eldo and have wanted one for years. And I really like the Northstar. But, I do pamper my cars, oil changes every 3-4K and all fluids on time. Also always underhood keeping everything spotless and torqued down, and I use dealer ( Local Pont/Cad dealer is real good) as needed for the repairs. Should I be considering the warranty. I have only 30 miles left on 50K so I need to do this today if I do, but I hated taking insurance and betting that something will go wrong.

BeelzeBob
04-29-03, 12:57 PM
Get the extended warranty unless you're good at doing your own repairs. Keep in mind that there are things on these cars that most people cannot do. I would get the extended warranty...

BeelzeBob
04-29-03, 01:02 PM
Think about this.. The ETC was the most technologically advanced production American vehicle in the year 2000 - along with the STS and other Cadillacs.. Things are going to go wrong...

Katshot
04-29-03, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by Sal Collaziano
Think about this.. The ETC was the most technologically advanced production American vehicle in the year 2000 - along with the STS and other Cadillacs.. Things are going to go wrong...

I would think that the STS USUALLY carries that crown. True, MOST of what goes into the STS also goes into the ETC but not everything.
(Side air bags, R/F seat "smart air bag", rear parking assist, upgraded Stabili-trac just to name a few.)

Astronomer
04-29-03, 03:58 PM
Thanks for the pessimistic view Sal, but; I'm betting that you have shaded the the reliability statistics too much towards failure. I did not get an EW for three major reasons.

1.) I happen to believe that the majority of components in the building of the year 2K automobiles have been tested for at least ten years in a real world environment.

2.) If the number one maker of automobiles in the U.S. can't be trusted to put its flagship product in the field while at the same time competing with the rest of the world on the quality of its components, lets all get ready to love eating rice and monkey brains.

3.) Not a single warranty company could detail for me the extent of components it would cover for my $3K plus making me believe I'm better off putting money in the bank than rolling the warranty dice. :burn:

Katshot
04-29-03, 07:15 PM
posted by Astronomer:
"I happen to believe that the majority of components in the building of the year 2K automobiles have been tested for at least ten years in a real world environment."

You REALLY don't have a clue on this one dude, sorry.
:rofl:
If you only knew how wrong that statement was:rolleyes:

BeelzeBob
04-30-03, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by Astronomer
Not a single warranty company could detail for me the extent of components it would cover for my $3K plus making me believe I'm better off putting money in the bank than rolling the warranty dice. :burn:

I was under the impression you bought your Cadillac from a Cadillac dealer.. If that IS indeed the case, then you should have nothing to worry about. Everything can be covered and you pay practically nothing to get anything fixed. I think I paid $35.00 to get a $3000.00 oil leak repaired. Plus, I had a free loaner car while my car was being repaired. Of course, they're paying for that loaner so your car is usually fixed the same day. AND, you get treated like GOLD at the dealer...

On the other-hand, if you're looking at aftermarket warranties - I don't know all that much about them. But, I know for the most part they're pretty good. Just be sure to go to a good company, call them up - and ask questions... That's all.. Or, get a printout of what they cover - bring it to a local Cadillac dealer - or mechanic of your choice (that can work on the Northstar) and ask them what it covers..

A Cadillac is an amazing car to be driving.. You get a lot of respect just for having one...

Also...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Astronomer
If the number one maker of automobiles in the U.S. can't be trusted to put its flagship product in the field while at the same time competing with the rest of the world on the quality of its components, lets all get ready to love eating rice and monkey brains.

America can't be the greatest at everything.. People have been buying things from soda machines with their cell phones in Europe for years now, for example... We aren't the leaders in technology - every country has their scientists and intelligence agencies... But, America makes great automobiles that compete on every level except for:

1. Interior quality - which will be changing
2. Build quality - which will be changing
3. Reliability - which I would hope will be changing..

We've cut corners here in America for years - regarding interior and build quality.. That we can change.. Reliability is another story and we'll have to work on that. For God's sake if we must, do what Bill Gates did... Send a limo over to other companies, take out their employees - and hire them...

Astronomer
04-30-03, 03:50 PM
Sal,

I bought my car at a GMC, Pontiac, Chevrolet dealership that wants to be a Cadillac dealer as well. It had 48K miles on it when I got it and is now out of warranty. However, that does not release GM from responsibility of their design and in keeping this car operating satisfactorily far enough into the future to allow me to enjoy it (I'm not sure what the law says on this its just an opinion). So far, no warranty company would put their cards on the table pertaining to exactly what they would cover, so I chose against getting one. I will battle this dealership, GM, and anyone else who wants to put up a fight to get responsible service after the sale for this car. And this is not because it is a Cadillac...but because it is generally accepted as good business practice for them to keep me thrilled with this car. The dealer has to rely on repeat business in order to sell vehicles, keeping customers like me happy is all part of their strategy. I'm not going to be happy with them if this car has expensive repairs. I paid too much money for this car not to be reliable transportation. I appreciate your comments about extended warranties....but I'll stick to my belief that they come up short in relieving you of anything but your money.

BeelzeBob
04-30-03, 04:01 PM
Actually, I have this really crappy aftermarket warranty that came with my 'ole Vette.. It's saving me about $1000.00 this month.. Even the crappy ones come in handy..

But you're right.. The dealer should definitely keep you happy so that you'll buy another car from them. But, they certainly will not repair things without charging you.

More than likely if you maintain the car perfectly - it's going to be fine.. Of course, there will be things that go wrong - as with any car... You can't buy a luxury car like a Cadillac and not expect things to go wrong.. It feels wierd saying that but it's true - and that's what most people will tell you. However, they'll tell you the same thing in regards to Mercedes and BMW.. Cars like these are not only expensive to buy - they're expensive to maintain..

I have a 1989 Dodge Shadow. It rarely breaks down - even replacing the tranny only costed $300.00 (used tranny with installation). But, I don't want people I graduated high school with seeing me driving that car around. I'd look like a failure.. If I didn't want to look successful - or a reward for all the effort I've put into my career, I'd just go and buy anything...

Astronomer
05-01-03, 11:14 AM
Sal,

Ok; for the sake of discussion, let's say you're right and there are even crappy warranties out there that are worth the money you spend on them. Certainly then it must also follow that there are some that are even more Cadillac friendly than the crappy ones and we here at Cadillacforums should be promoting those. Now I'm going to be asked to shell out about $3400.00 dollars over the next two years to buy one of these warranties to cover me untill 100K miles assuming I put 25K miles on in a year. Is it reasonable to assume that some Cadillacs will go those 50K miles without incurring anything other than regular fluid maintainence? Or should I automatically assume because this is a Cadillac and a luxury car, that I should expect to pay a lot more money above and beyond what I paid for it, just to get it to go 50K miles? I appreciate your wisdom on this because I'm just an old greenhorn when it comes to Cadillacs.

BeelzeBob
05-01-03, 11:24 AM
Well, I think it's more than likely you wont have any major problems within the next 50,000 miles - if the car has a good maintenance history and you maintain it well. The only problem is, if there IS a problem, it could be very expensive... There's an oil leak that's not exactly uncommon - it happened on my '95 ETC at about 100,000 miles - and that alone would have costed me about $3000.00... Besides the engine and transmission - which I highly doubt will go - that would probably be the most expensive repair. I hear the shocks/struts aren't costing that much anymore - people are buying aftermarket parts now. Someone may want to chime in regarding that...

Maybe you should just save the money and put it to the side in the event something happens - and if it doesn't, the money is yours to keep.

There IS a thread somewhere around here that Wes started regarding aftermarket insurance companies... It's a worthwhile search...