The Tech at the Cadillac Dealer tells me the reason my "Service Engine Light" is on is due to the Torque Converter Clutch. They explained my car is not going into overdrive and my gas mileage will suffer. Aside from that they didn't give me much of an explanation on why I need make a repair.
Can anyone please shed some light on what the heck the Torque Converter Clutch is and how urgent the need to repair? The Service Dept wants almost $3,000 to make the repair.
I hadn't noticed the car driving differently, but I took the car in because my Engine Light had come on.
It's a 2002 Deville DTS - 82K milies - according to the work order "Has a PO741 TCC Stuck Off.
your service department is trying to buttream you without lube!
that code..tcc stuck off...doesnt mean your car isnt going into overdrive...it just means that the converter isnt locking up. your mileage will suffer, but running without the converter locked will cause excessive heat and eventually will kill the transmission...that would be what id be most worried about...
there could be a number of reasons for this...could be as simple as the tcc solenoid, or as complex as the converter itself being fubared...which would mean they'd have to drop the cradle and seperate motor and trans to replace the converter...either way, 3,000 is WAY too much...
i'd find another dealer and get a second opinion on the repair estimate...it SURELY needs further diagnosis at a minimum
that code..tcc stuck off...doesnt mean your car isnt going into overdrive...it just means that the converter isnt locking up. your mileage will suffer, but running without the converter locked will cause excessive heat and eventually will kill the transmission...that would be what id be most worried about...
It's been 40k miles since mine starting having this problem and the transmission is still holding up fine. I also live in S. California where it is subjected to some warm temperatures.
Your mileage will suffer by about 1 MPG. Slippage is very minor. All transmissions used to slip like this before TCC's. I do not think your trans will overheat or get damaged by running it as is.
I used to have this problem when i had 20 inch rims on my deville. I cleared the codes when I took the rims off. No problems now. I even did the test where you get on the highway and tap the brake pedal slightly to disengage the clutch and it disengages which means it was engaged. I think the heavy weight of the rims caused the TCC to slip and the code came up.
TCCs are there for a reason, and the cooling systems and transmission lubrication systems are designed as such. We all know these cars' systems are so integrated, we really shouldn't question THAT...
Having no TCC operation will cause the transmission to run hotter. There's no doubt about it. The difference will be sustained slippage on long trips. In the city, the TCC usually isn't engaged anyway, depending on your speed. But it will have an effect on transmission durability and fluid life.
TCCs are there for a reason, and the cooling systems and transmission lubrication systems are designed as such. We all know these cars' systems are so integrated, we really shouldn't question THAT...
Having no TCC operation will cause the transmission to run hotter. There's no doubt about it. The difference will be sustained slippage on long trips. In the city, the TCC usually isn't engaged anyway, depending on your speed. But it will have an effect on transmission durability and fluid life.
This code is an old friend. I have the same code on my 98 SLS. Started showing up about 2 years ago at about 125,000 miles. Would only happen starting in D and running up to the shift point (at 41 mph I think?) when the SES light would light.
The information on this forum was very helpful. Basically the forum advice was to suspect the sensor before the TCC. I had the transmission fluid changed and added a bottle of Lucas transmission additive. Code came back almost right away. Also read that the code does not appear if you drive in 3rd. So now I drive in 3 around town and when I am on the interstate I shift to D and it always go to overdrive (RPMs drop). When I exit I usually downshift to 3. Sometimes the SES is on, sometimes not based on drive cycles and how good I am about remembering to downshift to 3 when slowing down.
The car has 155,000 miles now, gets 24 mpg and seems to shift as expected.
I would say if it shits to overdrive when you shift from 3 to D don’t worry about it.
Ranger I take your point. The reason I thought they were related is that I don't get the code if I stay in 3rd and recently there was a tread that discussed getting your car ready for state inspection with this code. The fix was to stay in 3rd and drive a certain number of cycles so there was no remaining information.
Your point is that the transmission is shifting above lock up speed but not necessarily with torque converter lock up.
Do the lock up test. Go above 41 mph. I do about 60mph. Then while holding a steady speed (NO cruise control), tap the brake pedal just enough to turn on the brake light or hear that little click. If you see your RPM's go up, then your converter is locking up. If the RPM's stay the same, then is isn't. The converter clutch disengages when you hit the brakes.
guys it just worked for me in a 2003 deville driving in 3rd my trans fluid is even burnt also i went to self serve emissions where i did it myself
im in ohio u plug into a computer now ...it may not work for eeveryone but its worth the try ! For those who say ot doesnt work dont believe it cuz it worked for me....today
Beats me. Both of my cars will lock the TCC with the PRNDL selector in 3 vs. D, so I don't understand that scheme either. I confirmed this last night on the ride home from work in the '01, and I know it does it on the '97 as well. Just from the ride yesterday, in the '01, the TCC will lock with the selector in 3 at about 37 mph, which is also about the speed it'll upshift into 4th gear, if the selector is in D.
Below that speed (again, with the selector in 3), it seems to stay unlocked, but it WILL lock above that speed, and stay locked. If I slip the transmission selector into D, the transmission will shift to 4th gear, and the TCC will lock back up if vehicle speed is over about 45 mph.
Windrider, if you put your transmission selector in 3 and run, say, 50 mph, you don't get TCC lockup?
This may be a secondary programming scheme in the transmission...sort of a "failsafe" if you will. If there's a problem with the TCC or with a sensor, perhaps the TCC lock schedules are changed to preclude lockup in 3rd gear? I don't know.
OK I did the lock up test last night on the way home from work. When I am in 3rd I did not observe any change in rpms but in D I did see the tack move up. I did the test several time and the results were the same. Also when I was above 41 mph, in D and did the test over and over I never got the SES light but as soon as I dropped below 41 mph and then cross it again got the SES light and when I checked codes it was P0741 current.
I think this confirms Rangers comment about lock up in D only and tells me that I have a sensor problem and not a TCC problem. I am going to continue to drive around in 3 and use D for the highway and ignore (and clear) the SES/P0741 code.
I verified this on the way home from work (again, in the '01 STS). With the gear selector in 3, the TCC will lock at speeds above 38 mph. It will stay locked at speeds higher than 38 mph. It will also stay locked as speeds fall below 38 mph, but will unlock itself, without brake application, when the digital speed readout falls to 35 mph.
Your speeds may vary, STS-to-SLS, because of final drive ratio differences, but I believe the TCC lock schedules should be similar. They are on my '97 SLS (which, admittedly, is an older generation). I don't remember the exact mph figures I quoted above, for the '97, but I do know that the TCC will lock with the gear selector in 3.
It's not supposed to lock up in 3rd. It is supposed to lock in D only, because thats overdrive. It locks up and it help with gas consumption. Windrider, if your tach moves up about 200 rpm or so, then you sensor is bad, not the clutch. If you have to take to emissions, drive the car in 3rd only for 2 weeks. Don't put it into D. Driving in 3rd will trick the sensor into no throwing a code because the TCC can't lock in 3rd.
From my '97 service manual, this is found on page 7-46:
The Torque Converter Clutch (TCC/VCC) should apply in Third or Fourth gear. Note when the TCC/VCC applies. If you do not notice the apply by an RPM drop, refer to Torque Converter Clutch Evaluation and Diagnosis.
I will concede that that information is from the '97 manual, but I believe it to be current through today...there's no reason GM would change that, and my '01 acts just like my '97.
Yeah, and me too. It seems that most folks' cars involved with this problem have no TCC lock in 3rd gear. I'm wondering why...if that's related to the code or not (it probably is I would say). Does your car's TCC lock in manual 3, and do you have the P0741 code?
The service manual listed some things the PCM does when that code is set, and disabling the TCC in 3rd gear was not one of them. Locking out OD was, but only when the trans is in an overheat mode. So I remain curious why putting the gear selector in manual 3 works for folks with this code, and why the code doesn't set. The service manual was clear that one of the conditions for the code setting was transmission being in 2nd, 3rd, or 4th gear, which makes it seem like the TCC functionality is even available in 2nd (but the service manual doesn't confirm that anywhere else in the text). I don't remember there being a vehicle speed range for this code to set...but there were a number of other factors, like throttle position, etc. I can post the whole section when I get home tonight after work.
Does anyone here have a service manual from the 2000-2004 timeframe, who can verify whether this information in my '97 manual is current to the more recent era of cars?
My 2000 deville is now throwing this code (This sucks) Can someone give me a ballpark figure/most likely scenario on the repair for this so I can make sure to not get totally azz raped.
What "sensor" causes the "sensor problem" you guys are referring to? I thought I read in the FSM that the code is set when the PCM detects more than a tiny amount of slippage based on engine RPM vs. input shaft RPM
My thing is trying to determine the cost of the repair, which of course is a VERY loaded question to be asking. It could be a simple relatively inexpensive fix if it's a solenoid or alot more if it is the converter itself
It won't be a cheap fix either way. The TCC solenoid is in the transmission side cover. To gain access, the trans (drivetrain) has to be removed or at least the cradle lowered a little to get the side cover off.
Ranger is right - a lot of $ - either live with it or consider rebuilding the trans while it is out. I lived with it for a year or so and when the HG went on my first engine, I had a used engine and trans installed. If the TCC goes on this trans, i will live with it again until the trans needs to come out again - if ever
I have a 98 deville d'elegance and i have the TCC code stuck open what is the fix for this? Also my rear end is starting to sag is the and the elc fuse keeps popping how can i fix this?
I have a 98 deville d'elegance and i have the TCC code stuck open what is the fix for this? Also my rear end is starting to sag is the and the elc fuse keeps popping how can i fix this?
I have the same car with the p0741 code (stuck off)...Ive had it for awhile. Isnt the rear-end springs and shocks?
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