: Cadillac Phaeton



arnauts
03-23-07, 04:27 AM
Heyo again, how's everyone doing?
I've got a few questions about my 1979 SDV Phaeton:
In 1978/1979, was the Phaeon package only available for the DeVille, or on the other models also?
Secondly, what exactaly differentiates this from a normal SDV of this era. I notice it has a cloth top and 'bar' across the back, as to make it look like a convertible, I've had people ask, "Is that a convertible?" and I think, Yeah, four door, full framed convertible, that's right. I'm told this is called a 'Phantom top' is this correct? The steering wheel is leather coated, and the exterior paint is one of the Firemist paints sold in this era, featured here:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/Caddy/DSCN1453.jpg
Before I bought the car a year ago, the badging on the rear quarter panels had been ripped off, would it just have said SDV, or SDV Phaeton. or just Phaeton?

Cadillac_Fan
03-23-07, 08:03 AM
Wow, what a great Cadillac Phaeton. Thanks for the picture, too.

You will find that forum member Benzilla is the resident authority and expert on the Phaeton. He has a pristine, essentially all-original Coupe DeVille Phaeton.

While I don't have much info on the car, here was an earlier post that was resourceful:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/cadillac/deville/phaeton.html

Bro-Ham
03-23-07, 09:05 AM
Hi,

You'll get plenty of feedback on this car. I believe you'll find the Phaeton Sedan is a very rare special edition car.

As for the badging, it should have a "Phaeton" script on the rear quarter panel. I could have sworn there were badges like this on eBay not too long ago.

Cadillac did not use the word "Phantom" to describe the roof or any part of the car - it is a "Phaeton".

According to the 1979 Cadillac brochure Phaeton special equipment was: "brushed chrome moldings with flush-mounted opera lamps and Cadillac crest...sporty convertible-like roof treatment, 'Phaeton' script designation at each rear quarter panel...wire wheel discs and accent striping...45/55 dual comfort front seating...rich leather in the seating areas and a matching leather-trimmed steering wheel...available in a choice of three color combinations: Cotillion White with Dark Blue roof and White leather...Slate Firemist with Black roof and Antique Slate Gray leather...Western Saddle Firemist with Dark Brown roof and Antique Saddle leather."

Have fun with it!

Dave

lochenjons
03-23-07, 11:18 AM
haha benzilla hasn't gotten to this thread yet? that car looks very similar to his coupe. great looking caddy! I've had a couple people as me if my '85 was a convertible... come on what are you thinking? are people seriously that dumb?

brougham_geezer
03-23-07, 11:23 AM
Very nice car, and yes, I'm sure Benzilla will have a few things to tell you. :bigroll: He really does know his Phaetons though, so take heed!

As for the people mistaking these for convertibles, I guess you have to admit that this roof treatment is serving it's purpose: to convince everyday people who aren't car nuts that you've got a ragtop!

PS greetings from the east coast, arnauts

Benzilla
03-23-07, 02:26 PM
WOW! How the hell did I miss this?

Okay, first things first, you have a very rare Sedan. For 1979 there were 2,400 coupes and only 400 sedans built, so treasure yours! Didn't I see that on Craig's list recently? Anyway, as mentioned you color is Western Saddle Firemist (same as mine) with Antique saddle interior. This color combination was only available in 1979. People call these cars "Phantoms" only out if confusion with the word Phaeton. Phaetons are convertibles, Phantoms hang around operas, got it?

Here's a scan of the brochure page about Phaetons from 1979.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c40/Cadillac_guy/79_deville_03.jpg

Here's mine for comparison,

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c40/Cadillac_guy/100_0884-1.jpg

Isn't this also yours?

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c40/Cadillac_guy/gDf1vpxKhp6IqwXbnlaV55dgqrTG.jpg

It seems that all other info has been covered, so if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

arnauts
03-23-07, 06:37 PM
Heyo, and thanks for all the information- it really makes me treasure the car that I was selling on Craigslist for $650 CAD last month! Haha! But now, I will relate a story to you.
This winter, I saw an add on the buysell for a 1969 Cadillac 472 engine, and fed up with the 425 and it's lack of power, I decided to go take a look.
Unfortunatly, it was in Salmon Arm, which is 450 KMs away! So I drove over the Coquihalla highway in late December in the old 1971 400CID Pontiac Parisienne (a rebadged Catalina for the Canadian market)
It started to piss snow as hard as I've ever seen it half way up, and it was dark out, so long story short, I ditched the Parisienne three times, once being pulled out by a farmer and his tractor, and the other two times not so lucky. I got up to the resident who was selling it, and he said he had to go to work, (as I was just arriving at 8 in the morning) and pointed to a pile of snow sixty or so feet off into the distance. After he'd left, I picked up a snow shovel that was lying around and began to make a path through the snow, which was just over one and a half feet deep. When I got to the car, I couldn't recognize anything, it was painted black and white checkered and had SALMON ARM written all on the hood in large red block letters. It was then that I remember him telling me it was used in the demolition derby...

So I got the hood undone, and threw it aside, making a little bonfire on it, to keep from freezing while I worked. By six that night, it was getting painfully dark, and all the progress I'd made on the rusty old beast was getting the cylinder heads off, the carb and intake. I wondered what I was going to do, as the tempreture was quickly dropping below freezing. The man came out of his house, and offered me a cot to sleep in close to a fireplace, to which I am incredibly thankful, because otherwise, I probably would have froze to death.
Being exhausted from the journey, I slept a solid ten hours, only to hear him knock at the door and tell me to dress warmly, because it was -15 degrees celcius outside ;)
Anyway, it turns out that he had a industrial strength angle grinder, which made short work of the exhause piping, and the front of the car. I pulled the front door off an old oven he had sitting in his hard, and attached a rope to it. Calling everyone outside, we managed to reef the engine out of the bay, (after undoing the transmission bellhousing flange, and motor mounts) and drop it on the makeshift sleigh, which bucked under the weight.
***
Driving home, with the rear end of my Pontiac about three inches off the ground, I was pulled over by the friendly folks of the Canadian Comercial Vehicle Inspection squad, who made me follow a cop to a scale, where a vehicle inspector pointed out a few minor flaws, and weighed it in at about 5000 LBS.
I was told that if I didn't get the car into a propper vehicle inspection in Vancouver within 30 days, I'd be fined eight hundred dollars, just dandy ;)


So back to the present here, I got a call from my machine shop this morning, who told me that when they magnafluxed the block, it showed it to be microscopically cracked by frost in serveral locations, and therefore useless.
That was one hell of a roadtrip for no reason at all. I was looking forward to blowing away Hondas and Acuras in a large American sedan.

But now I see that since this is such a rare model, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to change the numbers matching 425 anyway.

Oh! And one more question I have for you fine people, there is a little container on the side of the engine for Methol Hydrate, labeled the 'Famous Trevaskis System.' It alledgelly injects methanol into the carb during cold starts to help it warm up faster, but seems to go through about a litre every time I drive it, so I dont' use it. Is this stock, or aftermarket? I was wondering because it's not on my 80, and I have seen 81's without it also.

Thankyou kindly, and sorry for the length of the post, I'm just kinda ticked that the engine I paid $300 for, plus $250 in fuel, is turning out to be useless..

And yes, Benzilla, that is also mine. I dont' think I will sell it anymore, maybe it's time for restoration. I will post a few more pictures of it when the weather warms up a bit, it's been raining here for the last two weeks.

Benzilla
03-23-07, 07:18 PM
Great story, I have thought of putting a 500 in mine, and if the 425 ever dies I probably will. Until then I'm keeping it original. You should get more pictures! I actually thought of buying your car when I saw it, to have a matching pair, you know. I guess I won't now lol.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-23-07, 08:08 PM
Beautiful car, and for what it's worth (and don't hate me Ben) I like the Sedan Phaeton more...

Old Fleetwood
03-23-07, 11:55 PM
Wotta story !
Greater love hath no man than for his Cadillac :thumbsup:

eldorado99
03-26-07, 02:30 PM
Heyo, and thanks for all the information- it really makes me treasure the car that I was selling on Craigslist for $650 CAD last month! Haha! But now, I will relate a story to you.
This winter, I saw an add on the buysell for a 1969 Cadillac 472 engine, and fed up with the 425 and it's lack of power, I decided to go take a look.
Unfortunatly, it was in Salmon Arm, which is 450 KMs away! So I drove over the Coquihalla highway in late December in the old 1971 400CID Pontiac Parisienne (a rebadged Catalina for the Canadian market)
It started to piss snow as hard as I've ever seen it half way up, and it was dark out, so long story short, I ditched the Parisienne three times, once being pulled out by a farmer and his tractor, and the other two times not so lucky. I got up to the resident who was selling it, and he said he had to go to work, (as I was just arriving at 8 in the morning) and pointed to a pile of snow sixty or so feet off into the distance. After he'd left, I picked up a snow shovel that was lying around and began to make a path through the snow, which was just over one and a half feet deep. When I got to the car, I couldn't recognize anything, it was painted black and white checkered and had SALMON ARM written all on the hood in large red block letters. It was then that I remember him telling me it was used in the demolition derby...

So I got the hood undone, and threw it aside, making a little bonfire on it, to keep from freezing while I worked. By six that night, it was getting painfully dark, and all the progress I'd made on the rusty old beast was getting the cylinder heads off, the carb and intake. I wondered what I was going to do, as the tempreture was quickly dropping below freezing. The man came out of his house, and offered me a cot to sleep in close to a fireplace, to which I am incredibly thankful, because otherwise, I probably would have froze to death.
Being exhausted from the journey, I slept a solid ten hours, only to hear him knock at the door and tell me to dress warmly, because it was -15 degrees celcius outside ;)
Anyway, it turns out that he had a industrial strength angle grinder, which made short work of the exhause piping, and the front of the car. I pulled the front door off an old oven he had sitting in his hard, and attached a rope to it. Calling everyone outside, we managed to reef the engine out of the bay, (after undoing the transmission bellhousing flange, and motor mounts) and drop it on the makeshift sleigh, which bucked under the weight.
***
Driving home, with the rear end of my Pontiac about three inches off the ground, I was pulled over by the friendly folks of the Canadian Comercial Vehicle Inspection squad, who made me follow a cop to a scale, where a vehicle inspector pointed out a few minor flaws, and weighed it in at about 5000 LBS.
I was told that if I didn't get the car into a propper vehicle inspection in Vancouver within 30 days, I'd be fined eight hundred dollars, just dandy ;)


So back to the present here, I got a call from my machine shop this morning, who told me that when they magnafluxed the block, it showed it to be microscopically cracked by frost in serveral locations, and therefore useless.
That was one hell of a roadtrip for no reason at all. I was looking forward to blowing away Hondas and Acuras in a large American sedan.

But now I see that since this is such a rare model, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to change the numbers matching 425 anyway.

Oh! And one more question I have for you fine people, there is a little container on the side of the engine for Methol Hydrate, labeled the 'Famous Trevaskis System.' It alledgelly injects methanol into the carb during cold starts to help it warm up faster, but seems to go through about a litre every time I drive it, so I dont' use it. Is this stock, or aftermarket? I was wondering because it's not on my 80, and I have seen 81's without it also.

Thankyou kindly, and sorry for the length of the post, I'm just kinda ticked that the engine I paid $300 for, plus $250 in fuel, is turning out to be useless..

And yes, Benzilla, that is also mine. I dont' think I will sell it anymore, maybe it's time for restoration. I will post a few more pictures of it when the weather warms up a bit, it's been raining here for the last two weeks.

Oh boy... Sounds like quite an adventure, My uncle used to live up in Salmon Arm so I know how bitterly cold you must have been, and working on a car seems to only make you colder. When you stick to the engine block if you touch it, you know it's too cold to work any longer!

I too was thinking about buying your Phaeton when I saw it on Craigslist. I live not too far from you and at that price it seemed a no brainer, but I have my hands full with my '70 right now as the seats are being re-upholstered and It's also being painted.

arnauts
03-27-07, 08:30 PM
As promised, here are some photos of the old Phaeton, along with some of the slightly newer Fleetwood. You'll notice the custom body work on the Phaeton, courtesy of the young woman driving her Honda around the bend.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2363.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2351.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2349-1.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2346.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2352.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2354.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2353.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2355.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2371.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2359.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2358.jpghttp://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2357.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2378.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2373.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2375.jpg

arnauts
03-27-07, 08:33 PM
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2342.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2349.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2343.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2347.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2339.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2338.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2337.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2333.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2383.jpg
And yes, those are Pontiac hubcaps.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2377.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2384.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Lithaine/DSCN2385.jpg

Tell me what you think. The Phaeton is a little worse for wear, but I have located a new bumper and body extensions for it. Hopefully I don't get charged through the nose for them.

Benzilla
03-27-07, 08:39 PM
I wish I could buy it. lol. That's nice, I think that paint would buff out too. Right away I noticed the incorrect body side molding and pinstripes, is that your doing?

jayoldschool
03-27-07, 09:25 PM
I recognize those hubcaps! Those are off the 71 Parisienne! I have one, too. Not quite stock, though... lowered, complete shave, etc. Here's the only pic I have online (sorry it is dirty):

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/jayoldschool/Carpics008.jpg

arnauts
03-27-07, 10:18 PM
The pinstripe and body molding are incorrect? Heck if I knew, I bought the car last year just like it is now. What should they look like? I suppose the pinstripe shouldn't be there at all, but I like to look of it.
One question.. how the hell do you clean the Phaeton top? As the car has been sitting for a couple months, a little bit of mold is growing on the cloth, and scrup brushing it only takes out the most mild. I'm afraid to damage it, as it's in such good shape, just dirty. Also, do you think it would be possible to dye?

And... I miss my Parisienne incredibly badly, It makes me wish it didn't take that big thump into the ditch at 50MPH. I just love the grille on it. I put a holding deposit on a 70 Parisienne yesterday, but I wish I hadn't. It just doesn't have the style that the 71 does.. plus you can see into the trunk through the rear quarter panel. Where are you located, jay? I imagine you're in Canada, as there are not many Parisies in the US, just Catalinas.

Benzilla
03-27-07, 11:18 PM
Yeah, the original pinstripe would have matched the interior (Antique Saddle), not red. And the body side molding wouldn't have gone on the rear bumper fillers like yours does. And the vinyl insert would match the car. For cleaning the top I use a special cleaner for convertibles called RaggTopp. They also make a protectant that repels water. I put that on afterwards. Oh, and never use a towel that lints! I learned that the hard way. Although a tip: Those lint rollers that you use to get pet hair off your pants works great on the top for touch ups between cleanings.

autogeek.com sells the RaggTopp stuff I was talking about. Also, in the detailing section of this forum, if you search right, you'll find there is a product to restore color to faded cloth tops. You just brush it on. It comes in blue, black and brown.

Ahh, what the hell, I'll give you a link.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-detailing-appearance-modificationinterior-exterior-including/62627-attn-cloth-top-reviver.html?highlight=cloth+top

jayoldschool
03-28-07, 09:05 AM
I'm in Ottawa. My cars keep me busy... In addition to the 81 coupe and the Parisienne, I have a 95 Impala SS, a 65 Impala convertible, and my winter/utility car: 92 Roadmaster wagon. I would buy more, but I am out of space. :crybaby:

Jonas McFeely
03-28-07, 04:01 PM
Double Post.

Jonas McFeely
03-28-07, 04:01 PM
Broughams without white walls anger me. Changes the whole appearance of the car.Whenever i see one locally i cringe. The wheel covers are cool though.

arnauts
03-28-07, 07:28 PM
They do have whitewalls.. but they're just on backwards. Sorry, it wasn't my doing. I've only hard the car since January. The tires are brand new, but the previous owner just didn't like whitewalls, I guess. I find it destroys the look, but knowing that if I was going to buy new tires,I'd probably be out an outrageous ammount of money, as I probably would buy the most premium tires available. So I cut my losses.

Wheelman322
03-31-07, 09:29 PM
Is that center pillar light aftermarket? I almost bought a SDV Phaeton 2 years back and don't remember that light on it.

Benzilla
03-31-07, 09:33 PM
It was only on the Phaetons. ;)

I have a set sitting in my garage that I bought off eBay just because their so rare.