: Take that Toyota! The Prius is crap.



LS1Mike
03-20-07, 09:14 PM
http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/print_item.asp?NewsID=188

I found this artice about the Prius hurting the environment more than an H2.
I believe, that car is all hype.

Florian
03-20-07, 09:20 PM
http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/print_item.asp?NewsID=188

I found this artice about the Prius hurting the environment more than an H2.
I believe, that car is all hype.

Mike,

While I hate Toyota and the Prius even more...wheres the factual backup in the story. Greenpeace? Please. The story is written by a college student in Connecticut to boot. Until I see some facts, this is just superfluous fiction, as much as I want to believe it.


F

LS1Mike
03-20-07, 09:26 PM
I know, but I always wondered what you do with all of those old batteries.

Florian
03-20-07, 09:28 PM
When you get in an accident with a Prius or other battery type hybrid, and the battery leaks as a result of the wreck, they send a Haz-Mat team to clean up the spill, and youre insurance doesnt cover the cost. It takes roughly 5K to cover the teams costs....take that Toyota!


F

LS1Mike
03-20-07, 09:34 PM
Holy Poop!
Here is good one about cost of ownership that I found.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&refer=columnist_levin&sid=aW3sY79aEXUI

c5 rv
03-20-07, 09:39 PM
A lot of publications have had similar articles. The vehicles that make the most sense to be hybrid are busses - exactly what GM started with. For a small car, pure electric (Tesla) or powered generator (Chevy Volt) setups make a lot more sense.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-20-07, 10:03 PM
I thought I saw a pic somewhere of the area surrounding the plant where they manufacture the batteries for the Prius and other hybrids... as mentioned in the article, there was no more plant or animal life around that plant because the chemicals used to make the battery killed them all. I wish I had more information, but I heard about it a while back and I didn't hear the whole story. I'll have to ask the people I heard that from (the guys at work) for that picture.

90Brougham350
03-20-07, 10:41 PM
c (Tesla) or

FHell yeah! I'm caughta up in a draem! MOdfern Day COwvoy! :alchi::alchi::alchi:

Jon
03-20-07, 11:23 PM
I just had a 3 hours "discussion" (read: friendly arguement) with one of my best buddies that stemmed from this article lol.

Red_October_7000
03-21-07, 12:52 AM
Current hybrids are a kludge of the first order. In practice they don't get any better milage than my buddy's Geo Metro (he gets 50 MPG!) or some old little shoe-like cars that Honda had a long time ago, like the Civic CVCC and some other trim level with super-tall gears that got like 65 on the highway. There is really no need for Prius-type hybrids to exist, except to get tax credits to the people who make and buy them.

The Chevy Volt is the right idea; the gas engine does nothing but generate electricity for the car so it can run at maximum efficiency, if and when it's ever needed, as the batteries can power the car up to something like 120 MPH and you can charge them by other means, so in theory the engine may be never needed at all.

Jon
03-21-07, 01:31 AM
My view on the whole emissions thing...

First of all, the whole hybrid thing... It's really only for the people that are really "green." They want to be able to think that they are making a difference, no matter how small. If that's the case, kudos to them. But I think a lot of the hybrid buyers out there are uneducated. They don't really know that they're not saving any money unless they keep the car for 5 years. They don't really know that in a state/province where it is winter half the year, hybrids are horrible. Hybrids get worse gas mileage than a Vette in the winter. Hybrids are a bandaid. A short term temporary "solution", if you can even call it that.

Why don't car manufacturers focus on better solutions? Well, it doesn't matter. Look at E85. Ford and GM have cars that use E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gas). This includes: Tahoe, Uplander, Impala, Monte Carlo, Suburban, Silverado, etc. (See here: http://www.chevrolet.com/e85/)

But how many E85 refueling stations are there? In Ontario, there's ONE. In all of New York, 6. Some States have more than others.

My take is that no matter what car manufacturers do, no matter how much money they spend, they aren't going to come up with an actual replacement for the gas engine. Why? The government won't allow it.

If the government is serious about alternative fuels, they need to impose some radical legislations. By law, gas stations need to be rebuilt every 10 years. Impose a law that says all gas stations must have alternative fuels such as E85 and bio diesel within the next 11 years or so.

They don't do it. The government makes way too much money from oil. Here in Canada, the last I checked, 51% of what I'm paying at the pump is tax. They call this a "negative externality" or something. Basically, the gov't charges high taxes on gas, liquor, cigarettes, etc, to discourage you from using it. At the same time, they KNOW you can't stop using it. So they sit there, looking like good guys (hey, look, we don't want you to smoke or use up all the oil) while we line their pockets with cash.

Who saw "Who Killed The Electric Car?" Supposedly, California dropped the Zero Emissions Vehicle law, which is why the electric cars were suddenly discountinued. Do I believe it? Not for a second. If you're Ford, GM, or Toyota, and you've just spent TONS of money developing an electric car (GM reportedly spent $1B USD), and all of a sudden, you are no longer REQUIRED to build it... Would you stop? You've already spent all the money doing the R&D... You have LOTS of interest and orders to fill... You are no longer REQUIRED to build the car... You can either keep building it and make money, OR, stop and lose all the money you spent on R&D. Ford, GM, and Toyota took back all their electric cars and they've never been heard of again. Fishy, no?

Electric cars, alternative fuels... These are not going to be mass produced for a while. Not until we run out of fuel. The gov't simply won't allow it. They're going to keep milking us for all we've got. Oil is inelastic. If the price doubled tomorrow, who here would honestly sell their car? I know I'll still be buying gas at the pump.

The only reason hybrids can be sold is because in the end, you still fill them up at the pumps. The electric car was an amazing vehicle. It's not that car manufacturers aren't doing enough to develop vehicles that use alternative fuels... There's just not enough support from the gov't.

Just my 2 cents.

ewill3rd
03-21-07, 06:08 AM
Electric cars are worse than gas cars. The EV1, the king of the electric car, was so expensive to maintain you couldn't even own one. They were leased from GM because the battery pack was so expensive you'd have to get a 2nd mortgage to pay for one. Not only that but electric cars are retarded in the first place. The chemicals required to build and maintain lead acid or nickel based batteries are dangerous to handle and none too good for the environment... and nothing lasts forever.
The biggest problem with electric cars however, is electricity.
It doesn't magically fall from the sky, it comes from power plants, and as any tree hugger knows, power plants are the root of all evil.
The wastes in energy from generation, transmission, and chemical storage are astounding, but electricity is still reasonably expensive and you don't see any pollution from the outlets in your house so everyone thinks it is great.

Hybrid cars are interesting but they present their own set of problems.
The high voltage systems they use contain power strong enough to cause serious personal injury or death to the guys working on them and who knows what is going to happen when someone gets under the hood with a set of jumper cables!? You have expensive battery packs that are complicated to handle safely, high voltage wires running from the trunk to the engine and usually 2 or even 3 electrical systems on the vehicle that most people in the field are not even close to qualified to service.

I don't necessarily buy the whole government conspiracy to keep us dependent on fossil fuels so they can make money. Although I can see how people believe it and you are absolutely entitled to your opinion.

The fact is, fossil fuels are pretty easy to come by (comparitively speaking). If everyone was interested in saving fuel and preserving the environment then the fuel saving little boxes from the 80's would still be roaming the streets, Geo Metro would be king of the road!
Frankly, people want to go fast, drive hard, and look good doing it.
Otherwise why does Cadillac still even exist?

I guess my point would be, as a country, or even as residents of planet Earth, people talk the talk of saving the environment and stopping global warming and then when it comes time to buy a car they go for what goes fast, or looks good. Saving money, or fuel don't seem to enter the equation except for those folks who buy the media hype of the hybrid, they think they are trying but they just don't understand reality.

I have a Trailblazer myself with an inline 6. It gets decent mileage on the highway but pretty bad in town.
I drive it 8 miles a day, go out when I have to and fill the tank when it gets to less than 1/4. I can make a tank of gas last for almost a month. Then you have guys that fill the tank every day, commute 20 to 50 miles a day (I know guys that go over 100 miles a day) and whine about the price of gas and whatever else.

If you ask me, it is not up to the government to stop these problems, but up to us as individuals. As has been proven time and again, if a car manufacturer doesn't make what people want, they go under. If they listen to the public and give them what they want they do well but people are so confused they don't know what they want. They get what they ask for and then whine because it doesn't do what they want. They get more power, it's not enough, they get more gadgets, they don't work the way people think they should or people can't figure out how to use them.
If people refused to buy gas guzzling cars, manufacturers wouldn't keep building them but .... people do.
The problem isn't the government, or big business, the problem is consumers are uneducated (except of course members of this forum ;) )and don't think beyond vanity or greed.

At least that is my view. Take it for what it is worth, an opinion.
All these fat cats in Washington cry about the environment but they have huge homes, gas guzzling limos and SUVs and thousand dollar electric bills while they fly around the country in some vehicles that REALLY pollute... aircraft... don't get me started on those!
:D

Thanks for allowing me to ramble on and embarass myself :D

Spyder
03-21-07, 11:18 AM
This is the hybrid I drove in high school! 462 cubic inches of enviromental friendly FURY! Not only did it get GREAT mileage (around 6mpg, whether I liked it or not), but it had this really cool "oil recovery sysytem" I think they called it...it returned approx 1 quart of oil to the earths crust per week.

We should all buy '66 Lincolns. The world would be a better place.

:)

DopeStar 156
03-21-07, 02:12 PM
I wish I had grabbed a picture of this, but I saw on my way to school this morning, two Priuses smashed into each other, perhaps some kind of springtime mating ritual.....

Jesda
03-21-07, 02:48 PM
The Prius is a neat high-tech showcase, but it is NOT economical, NOT environmentally friendly -- and obviously not much fun to drive.

So, the only reason left to buy it is because you think its a neat gadget, like a shiny new PDA. Thats not why I buy cars. Gadgets get old quickly and end up thrown away.

dkozloski
03-21-07, 05:44 PM
Many years ago the local electric utility bought a demonstration electric car made on a Corvair platform. The first problem that surfaced was there's no heat. The second problem was it weighs a thousand pounds more than a conventional car. It came to an untimely demise when a mechanic dropped a wrench on the battery. The wrench welded itself in place and the resulting short caused the car to burn to the ground.

Sandy
03-21-07, 06:19 PM
Spyderman, that 66 Lincoln Continential Coupe is BEAUTIFUL !!

There is nothing.....NOTHING like a Sixties Cadillac, Lincoln or Imperial >>> NOTHING !

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-22-07, 07:41 PM
I wish I had grabbed a picture of this, but I saw on my way to school this morning, two Priuses smashed into each other, perhaps some kind of springtime mating ritual.....


LOL! Seeing that would take me to a new level of happiness!


The Prius is a neat high-tech showcase, but it is NOT economical, NOT environmentally friendly -- and obviously not much fun to drive.

So, the only reason left to buy it is because you think its a neat gadget, like a shiny new PDA. Thats not why I buy cars. Gadgets get old quickly and end up thrown away.

Same here, I've driven one at work, and I thought it was a neat gadget, a toy if you will, but that's the only positive thing about it IMO.




We should all buy '66 Lincolns. The world would be a better place.

:)

I agree, but for me, it's gotta be that '72 Mark IV. In White.