: How can I clear the engine service light



sweetdivel
03-05-07, 08:46 AM
Hi
I have an 05 sts V8 with nav. and ACC. I always get the engine light illuminates and it comes and goes frequently.
The reason is from the oxygen sensors in the exhaust system need changing. Will I’m planning to do so but in the next service for 50K. As some of you know, when this light come off the remote start is disabled and you can only start the car normally.
Is there any trick or a hint to clear it without going to the dealer?

I'll be glad if someone could answer my request.

Thanks in advance.:thumbsup:

Benjamin Simon
03-06-07, 11:23 PM
Sorry, I don't know the answer to you question, but it still should be under warranty. Right?

ewill3rd
03-07-07, 08:30 AM
Why do you say the O2 sensors need changed?
What are the codes you are seeing?

There is no way to clear the codes manually, you need a scan tool, or the self tests for the code have to run and pass several times.
You can try disconnecting the battery and holding the cable ends together for a couple minutes.

If the codes you are seeing are P0171 and P0174 I'll tell you right now, changing the O2 sensors will be a waste of time.
This is a problem we are having right now, GM is working on a fix but nothing is out yet.
Try to avoid extended idle times if you are seeing these codes.

sweetdivel
03-07-07, 10:25 AM
the car is still under worenty and i took it to the dealer and toold me that.
for the codes, i don't know them actually but i'll check with them and be back to you.

ssstealth
03-07-07, 09:11 PM
Please excuse my ignorance on this one, but can codes be cleared from the diagnostics screen?

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/ssstealth/STS-V/P1010073.jpg

I haven't gotten any DTC codes yet, so it is hard to test.

I sure do miss the "OFF+WARMER" days...

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/ssstealth/STS-V/books.jpg
and what the hell is going on with these service manuals? I just thought the 94 model had a lot of pages!!!

ewill3rd
03-08-07, 06:55 AM
I have never messed with that screen before, I think that might be an internal radio code check.
Don't know what to tell you there.
Yes the manuals get about an inch thicker every year.
I use them online so I haven't seen a book set for while.
We still get the books but with the online access we have to the manuals they rarely get openend. We keep them around in case of a power outage ;)

Benjamin Simon
04-04-07, 09:05 PM
I am having the same problem with mine. It idled for like 10 mins and now I have a check engine light on and the remote start will not work. Any suggestions?
I don't know what the codes are, but OnStar said it was something in the emissions.
Thanks in advance.

mike sts
04-19-07, 06:11 PM
Why do you say the O2 sensors need changed?
What are the codes you are seeing?

There is no way to clear the codes manually, you need a scan tool, or the self tests for the code have to run and pass several times.
You can try disconnecting the battery and holding the cable ends together for a couple minutes.

If the codes you are seeing are P0171 and P0174 I'll tell you right now, changing the O2 sensors will be a waste of time.
This is a problem we are having right now, GM is working on a fix but nothing is out yet.
Try to avoid extended idle times if you are seeing these codes.


My 2005 sts4 has been in for service with these codes 4 times in 2 weeks. First the delaer said they re conected a hose, next time they put in a new fuel pump, then a fuel injection cleaner lastly they replaced throtle body. Any idea what is going on here? I have asked caddillac to trade this vehicle for another

ewill3rd
04-20-07, 07:26 AM
I spent 2 months working with a software engineer on a problem vehicle recently.
We have had a small number of these run through our shop. No amount of parts replacement has been helpful. All the things that typically cause this code to set are not happening on STS with a N* engine.

GM sent me a specially designed air box to combat this problem and it seemed to help. (on an '07)
They are actually currently researching this problem and working on a calibration enhancement but they have to get it past EPA testing and all the other red tape that comes with a calibration update.

The technical explanation can be pretty complicated.
We did see one that had a bad brake booster, you might let them know about that possibility.
The calibration update should be released this summer.
This problem seems to be worse on the '07 than the older years.

mike sts
04-20-07, 11:43 PM
ewill thanks for the reply take a look at this could it be the MAF sensor?

We’re on the internet! Now you can
learn more about VCERTT and our training
classes. Look for our updated and in depth
course list and descriptions. Check out the fall
training schedule and email us to sign up for a
class in your area. You’ll also find our past
newsletters available with their useful information
always handy. We also have links to
some great web resources. Check us out!
Soon we’ll catalogue our case studies
for quick reference. What else would you like
to see? Email us at OBDNews@vtc.edu with
suggestions or comments

Numerous manufacturers have been
having troubles with their mass airflow (MAF)
sensors recently. The affected sensors are a
Bosch product used widely by foreign and domestic
manufacturers. The symptoms range
from hesitation to stalling to bucking on acceleration.
The malfunction indicator light (MIL)
is often illuminated. The diagnostic trouble
code (DTC) may or may not indicate a faulty
MAF sensor. On many vehicles DTCs P0171
or P0174 for system too lean may be set.
Sometimes an oxygen sensor DTC will be set
as well because the system is running so lean
that the sensor voltage consistently stays low.
Several manufacturers have technical service
bulletins published regarding this problem.
The suggested repair for the problem is to replace
the sensor.
The fault with the sensor appears to
be contamination of the sensor’s hot wire.
The sensor wire is heated to a particular temperature.
Air passing across the sensing wire
cools it. The sensor increases the current to
maintain a constant wire temperature. The
more airflow across the wire the greater thecurrent required to maintain the wire temperature.
This varying current is converted to a
variable frequency that the PCM uses to infer
intake airflow. When the wire becomes contaminated,
the airflow across it does not cool it
as it should. The current is not increased as
much and the PCM “sees” less airflow than is
actually occurring. This results in a lean air/
fuel mixture.
In order to diagnose the sensor, some
suggest cleaning the hot wire with Brake
Kleen or electric cleaner. Lint from low quality
air filters is a very common culprit. Excessive
oil on a K and N air filter will also contaminatethe hot wire and limit its sensitivity. Some
technicians are carefully pulling lint off of the
sensing wire with tweezers. After cleaning the
wire, drive the vehicle to see if the symptoms
have lessened. If so, the sensor is the faulty
component. Some technicians are cleaning the
sensors without replacing them though most
are following the manufacturers suggestion and replacing the sensors.

ewill3rd
04-21-07, 09:07 PM
A few of the ones we have seen, no change with a new MAF.
I took one off a brand new car right off the transport, same problem.

It is really a software issue. Like I said, GM is working on it but the fix isn't out yet.

mike sts
04-21-07, 11:14 PM
thanks for the reply. i am actually in the process of trying to make GM trade this car for another under the lemon law becuase they cannot fix this issue. do you know how many cars are effected

ewill3rd
04-22-07, 11:24 AM
It seems to be a random problem from what I have heard.
It looks like it might be related to ethanol content in the fuel, this appears to be worse in cold weather and practically non-existent in the summer.

mike sts
04-23-07, 09:06 PM
ewill3rd, thanks for all the help I told my dealer about this thread they told me they contacted a caddilac technician in michigan and could find no information about this issue or a upcoming fix. Is there soemone specific they can contact to find out about this? My dealer tells me they have never seen a STS with this issue up here in MA.

ewill3rd
04-23-07, 09:24 PM
I know for a fact that TAC has some open cases on this concern.
They may not be aware of my fix, I just realized I forgot to close the case.
As I said, I was working directly with an engineer on this one.
Tell them to ask TAC what they have on cases for P0171 and P0174.
I'll try to get them a case closing tomorrow so it will be in the database.

The car in question that I had got bought back, not sure what it's fate was, but based on the tests I ran it was fixed.

mike sts
04-24-07, 08:21 PM
My car is a 2005 blue sts leased in ohio I purchased at long caddilac in southboro MA, so far i have not found this dealer helpful they give me a hard time and seem put out with each of my request and are not helping me in the buyback process. The service manger told me he is not a lawyer but does not think my car qualifies because it is just a check engine light. I replied you cannot sell it or pass inspection with a check engine light it is a huge deal. The GM acted put out when i talked to him at first stating he has tried to comply with my 80,000 request then denied saying that, (my request was that they fill my gas tank before i picked up the car at the 4th repair attempt I have a 70 mile ride and a free oil change coupon) Terrible customer service at this point. If you hear of a tsb or any file number please let me know they state they are talking to a engineer at caddillac.

mike sts
04-26-07, 10:13 PM
Hope this summary may help someone else with similar issue. got the car back again today 5th repair attempt last one before buy back. so far here is what has been done to fix this check engine light code caused by a too lean fuel mixture codes: po420 po171 and po174:
1 Recoonect hose and adjust air cleaner box
2 Replace fuel pump
3 Reset light to see if it would come back on
4 replace throtle body, clean fuel injection system
5 replace PCM, duct, maf, exhaust manifold, catalatic converter bank 1 sensor, oxygen sensor, fuel rail, intake manifolds, map sensor, o2 sensors.

So final diagnosis for this car was poor fuel injector flow and bad o2 ground. we will see if this fixes the problem. The best fuel mixture numbers they could get were bank2 10% bank1 7% 0 is the goal. Next step for me is to work a a settlement with caddi to pay for my time 15 hours, millage put on vehicle for road test and trips to the dealer (1000 miles), loss of use of the vehicle 3 weeks, pain suffering and aggravation. Iam thinking of a number in the thousands. Does anyone have any suggestions?

ewill3rd
04-27-07, 07:45 AM
I forgot to close my case for you.
I'll try to get that done.
As much as I hate to say it at this point, I think you might see that light again.

The target fuel trims are actually 0%, but they should hang out below 10% normally. If they are over that then they are dancing closely to the threshold of setting the codes again.
The P0420 was a fixable problem and if they put a catalyst on then they fixed it. For a 420 it should be the right side cat. (bank 1)

Have they involved the local field engineer?
They didn't tell you what engineer they were talking to did they?
I always hate to hear about this problem and I haven't yet understood why some cars do this and some don't.

mike sts
04-27-07, 08:57 PM
I was told they called the field engineer and they would talk on the phone but would not come out. They only have 2 for new england one in NY and one in ME. I was told they wont come until the car goes into buyback status. This does not make sense to me someone should have come out for this last attempt to fix. What number would cause the car to fail emissions for inspection? The service advisor told me these numbers are not close to failing the car but set the check engine light.

mike sts
04-27-07, 08:59 PM
By the way they told me they parked a new car in the bay next to mine and swapped out part after part related to fuel delivery and emissions and could never get my car as low as their test car. How could this be? Is this a electrical problem or a mechanical design flaw?

ewill3rd
04-28-07, 09:28 AM
I did the same thing, swapped parts off of a new car with the same result, no change.
I am not sure exactly what is happening and why some vehicles are more prone to do it than others. The real engineer that I talked to seemed to think it had to so with the air box, as I said, he sent me a special one and it did seem to help a great deal but the numbers were still not like I would like to see them.

A field engineer is usually very busy, and he just works with other production engineers to go after trouble children. I work with the one in this area a lot and he agreed with me that this seems to be a calibration issue. Even the air box they sent me was a "band-aid" and the car was bought back. The guy got a loaded up DTS and I guess he is happy. I think he really wanted the STS but couldn't take the light coming on. Plus it was worse for him because of the way he operates his car. (a lot of idling)

Based on what I know the real fix should be out in a month or two, I'll post if I hear any more about this from GM.

What makes the car fail emissions testing is not a "number" on the fuel trims. The trick is that a certain fuel trim number combination causes the code to set and turn on the MIL, when the MIL comes on any OBD emissions inspection will "fail". The presence of a current code will notify the emissions station computer and a failure will be registered.
There are two parameters on the data list that are monitored for each bank, long and short term fuel trim.
Without having to explain fuel trim in detail, basically the computer is watching the O2 sensors to see if the engine is running rich or lean.
If it is too lean the computer adds fuel and updates a fuel control table. These are called "blocks" and this all used to be called "block learn" and "integrator".
As the blocks are updated the computer adds or subtracts values to maintain stored fuel control for operating conditions. This is now expressed as "fuel trim".
Short term is a quick adjustment and will vary rapidly on the scan tool display. If short terms (ST) stay high (in your case, sometimes they go low) for a given time then a number is added to long term(LT). This is the new base. The ST numbers then usually fall back down and readjust, If ST numbers go high again, then LT numbers keep going higher.
Typically the computer will keep doing this until it sees specific levels at which it can keep ST at 0%.
If any combination of ST and LT equals 25, the computer will set a code for a set time period.
I think on STS they may have even lowered the limit to 18% recently.
The computer is actually compensating for the condition but EPA regulations state if the car is exceeding EPA standards by a certain amount the light has to come on and the code has to set.

Does any of that make sense?

mike sts
04-28-07, 02:03 PM
Does everyone know of this fix? i asked my service manager about a upcoming fix he said it was BS, they asked the tac center and they were told of no upcoming fix? They could not find any information about the air box either

mike sts
04-28-07, 02:06 PM
Does anyone know how many cars are effected?

ewill3rd
04-28-07, 05:37 PM
I don't know how many cars are affected. I spoke to a GM software engineer for STS powertrain and he told me they were working on a calibration fix and it will be out, but it may be as late as beginning of production for '08.
TAC knows nothing, all they do is search a database of closed cases, those guys are paid to operate computers and most of them barely know which end of the car is the front.

If I could ever remember to dig out my TAC case folder I would close that case and they would have something else to go on. Once I submit it the information will go into their database and they will be able to tell you what I have already told you.
I am really bad about closing cases, which doesn't help other guys.

They had some cases where someone claimed a brake booster fixed it, I think one place claimed they replaced a leaking valve cover gasket, but I don't think that is the real issue here.
Have you seen the light come back on?

Onalaska
04-28-07, 06:05 PM
I have a 2005 1SF. Was stuck in a traffic jam idling on and off for over two hours and never saw the SES light come on once so it doesn't happen to everyone. Also the cooling system on this car works, it never showed any signs of overheating. Two pusher fans plus an engine fan must take care of the heat.

mike sts
04-29-07, 12:31 PM
It has been almost 200 miles and no light on yet

mike sts
04-29-07, 12:33 PM
I don't know how many cars are affected. I spoke to a GM software engineer for STS powertrain and he told me they were working on a calibration fix and it will be out, but it may be as late as beginning of production for '08.
TAC knows nothing, all they do is search a database of closed cases, those guys are paid to operate computers and most of them barely know which end of the car is the front.

If I could ever remember to dig out my TAC case folder I would close that case and they would have something else to go on. Once I submit it the information will go into their database and they will be able to tell you what I have already told you.
I am really bad about closing cases, which doesn't help other guys.

They had some cases where someone claimed a brake booster fixed it, I think one place claimed they replaced a leaking valve cover gasket, but I don't think that is the real issue here.
Have you seen the light come back on?


Who do they have to talk to to get the information that you have regarding a calibration update? Will this mean the car will always run a little lean?

mike sts
05-01-07, 09:50 PM
well after 500 miles since the last fix the light is back on

ewill3rd
05-02-07, 06:54 AM
mike,

I closed my TAC case on Monday. I am not sure how long it will take to get into their database.
If you want, I can send an email to the engineer I was talking to and ask him directly if he knows the progress of this issue.
I haven't heard from him for a while and my Service Director told me that GM has already taken this car back to look at it.
I am not sure where it went though.

mike sts
05-02-07, 09:28 PM
mike,

I closed my TAC case on Monday. I am not sure how long it will take to get into their database.
If you want, I can send an email to the engineer I was talking to and ask him directly if he knows the progress of this issue.
I haven't heard from him for a while and my Service Director told me that GM has already taken this car back to look at it.
I am not sure where it went though.


Thanks that may help you know much more about this issue than anyone at long caddi, they want one more chance to work on my car they are sending the field engineer to work on it next thursday, i have told them i am looking for them to trade a 2006 sts for my 2005 with the hope the 2006 has worked out some of these bugs

ewill3rd
05-02-07, 09:52 PM
You say this is an '05? I wasn't paying attention.
I'll talk to my contact again, but he has told me in the past this issue with the air box may be limited to '07 production.

Hopefully the field engineer will find something that will pinpoint the problem.
I know I have heard of at least one '05 that was fixed with a brake booster.
The powertrain engineer I spoke to, as mentioned, seems to think that the '05 and '07 have some major differences, but I don't see them.

Keep me posted on the progress of your issue and I'll see if I can help.
It is hard from far away.

ewill3rd
05-03-07, 09:04 AM
Well according to my engineer friend the vendor for '05 and '06 and the origination of the calibrations are from a different place.
I guess for '07 they use a new vendor. I think he said Siemens made the older units and the cals.
Now the units are Hitachi and I am not sure where the cals are coming from.

According to him it looks like they are just overlooking something.
Maybe this brake booster thing I have heard of has something to it.
Wish you lived close to this area, I'd take a crack at it for you.

mike sts
05-03-07, 10:50 PM
what is a brake booster?

dkozloski
05-04-07, 12:01 AM
what is a brake booster?
A vacuum operated device that boosts brake line pressure to give power brakes. Conceivably it could have a vacuum leak and lean out the engine.

ewill3rd
05-04-07, 07:12 AM
Yep, basically it is that big round thing behind the brake master cylinder.
It actually helps you press the brake pedal, it has a big diaphragm inside and they can get holes in them causing an intermittent vacuum leak.
It is pretty rare but not impossible.

z06bigbird
05-04-07, 10:34 PM
Why do you say the O2 sensors need changed?
What are the codes you are seeing?

There is no way to clear the codes manually, you need a scan tool, or the self tests for the code have to run and pass several times.
You can try disconnecting the battery and holding the cable ends together for a couple minutes.

If the codes you are seeing are P0171 and P0174 I'll tell you right now, changing the O2 sensors will be a waste of time.
This is a problem we are having right now, GM is working on a fix but nothing is out yet.
Try to avoid extended idle times if you are seeing these codes.

Very useful into. I cut and paste posts like this and copy them to a Word file. Sometime in the next few months, yrs, I will use this info.

Thanks,

mike sts
05-04-07, 10:36 PM
thanks for the info I will pass thatn on

z06bigbird
05-04-07, 10:38 PM
Please excuse my ignorance on this one, but can codes be cleared from the diagnostics screen?

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/ssstealth/STS-V/P1010073.jpg

I haven't gotten any DTC codes yet, so it is hard to test.

I sure do miss the "OFF+WARMER" days...

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/ssstealth/STS-V/books.jpg
and what the hell is going on with these service manuals? I just thought the 94 model had a lot of pages!!!



Check carefully. More engines and options. I went thru several sets after noticing the same.

z06bigbird
05-04-07, 10:42 PM
ewill thanks for the reply take a look at this could it be the MAF sensor?

We’re on the internet! Now you can
learn more about VCERTT and our training
classes. Look for our updated and in depth
course list and descriptions. Check out the fall
training schedule and email us to sign up for a
class in your area. You’ll also find our past
newsletters available with their useful information
always handy. We also have links to
some great web resources. Check us out!
Soon we’ll catalogue our case studies
for quick reference. What else would you like
to see? Email us at OBDNews@vtc.edu with
suggestions or comments

Numerous manufacturers have been
having troubles with their mass airflow (MAF)
sensors recently. The affected sensors are a
Bosch product used widely by foreign and domestic
manufacturers. The symptoms range
from hesitation to stalling to bucking on acceleration.
The malfunction indicator light (MIL)
is often illuminated. The diagnostic trouble
code (DTC) may or may not indicate a faulty
MAF sensor. On many vehicles DTCs P0171
or P0174 for system too lean may be set.
Sometimes an oxygen sensor DTC will be set
as well because the system is running so lean
that the sensor voltage consistently stays low.
Several manufacturers have technical service
bulletins published regarding this problem.
The suggested repair for the problem is to replace
the sensor.
The fault with the sensor appears to
be contamination of the sensor’s hot wire.
The sensor wire is heated to a particular temperature.
Air passing across the sensing wire
cools it. The sensor increases the current to
maintain a constant wire temperature. The
more airflow across the wire the greater thecurrent required to maintain the wire temperature.
This varying current is converted to a
variable frequency that the PCM uses to infer
intake airflow. When the wire becomes contaminated,
the airflow across it does not cool it
as it should. The current is not increased as
much and the PCM “sees” less airflow than is
actually occurring. This results in a lean air/
fuel mixture.
In order to diagnose the sensor, some
suggest cleaning the hot wire with Brake
Kleen or electric cleaner. Lint from low quality
air filters is a very common culprit. Excessive
oil on a K and N air filter will also contaminatethe hot wire and limit its sensitivity. Some
technicians are carefully pulling lint off of the
sensing wire with tweezers. After cleaning the
wire, drive the vehicle to see if the symptoms
have lessened. If so, the sensor is the faulty
component. Some technicians are cleaning the
sensors without replacing them though most
are following the manufacturers suggestion and replacing the sensors.

Very useful info. Thank you. I am saving it for future use as I will not find that in the shop manual. Who knows, maybe one day I will get to those VCERTT classes.

mike sts
05-13-07, 02:55 PM
Well got the car back again this time they tell me the code was 440 and they put in a new evap cannister.

Dwhoelse
05-18-07, 07:09 PM
Well according to my engineer friend the vendor for '05 and '06 and the origination of the calibrations are from a different place.
I guess for '07 they use a new vendor. I think he said Siemens made the older units and the cals.
Now the units are Hitachi and I am not sure where the cals are coming from.

According to him it looks like they are just overlooking something.
Maybe this brake booster thing I have heard of has something to it.
Wish you lived close to this area, I'd take a crack at it for you.

Gentlemen- I've been searching the 'P0171 / P0174' trouble codes for a few days now and came across this thread. Vehicle is '01 Seville STS with 69,692 miles. I don't have a CEL, just the two codes which I just happened to check when the car started running rough.

ewill3rd- Any ideas? I'm in the area. Thanks.

D

ewill3rd
05-18-07, 09:32 PM
D,

On an '01 STS you'll have a different problem.
The most common failure on your car will be what is called a "plenum".
If you look at the engine with the cover off you'll see the throttle body and then a black rubber spacer bolted to the back with a hose clamp on the other side.
It likely has a slit at the bottom causing an air leak that is sneaking past the MAF sensor. The computer sees the lean condition but doesn't know where the air is coming from.
We keep them in stock anytime you want to come by.
Let me know.

Dwhoelse
05-18-07, 09:40 PM
D,

On an '01 STS you'll have a different problem.
The most common failure on your car will be what is called a "plenum".
If you look at the engine with the cover off you'll see the throttle body and then a black rubber spacer bolted to the back with a hose clamp on the other side.
It likely has a slit at the bottom causing an air leak that is sneaking past the MAF sensor. The computer sees the lean condition but doesn't know where the air is coming from.
We keep them in stock anytime you want to come by.
Let me know.


Thanks for the reply. I was still looking around the forums for a solution. I'm not sure if it's related or not but this started a few days after changing the oil (Amsoil-already had it in the garage) and adding a bottle of Techron fuel additive to the tank.

I was hoping to have it repaired this up coming week if possible. Thanks again.

D

dkozloski
05-18-07, 10:06 PM
FWIW. If you have a split rubber part that handles air, super glue does a heck of a job of mending it. Clean the damaged area with a good degreaser first. Super glue goes to hell in water so the repair is no good for a hose. I've made my own odd sized O-rings with super glue. In fact there used to be a kit available just for this.

ewill3rd
05-19-07, 08:20 PM
Might work Koz, but the split is usually on the bottom and quite hard to reach.
I suppose one could take the plenum off and attempt it.
If you have the money it is worth replacing the plenum.
Also you'll need 8 intake seals, they should be replaced when the intake comes off.

dkozloski
05-20-07, 03:44 PM
Super glue really sticks to rubber. There used to be an ad on TV where they lifted a truck with a super glued piece of rubber a couple of inches square. Another mechanics trick is a drop of super glue on small vacuum hose slip joints so they won't be dislodged during trouble shooting.

Dwhoelse
05-22-07, 01:46 AM
FWIW. If you have a split rubber part that handles air, super glue does a heck of a job of mending it. Clean the damaged area with a good degreaser first. Super glue goes to hell in water so the repair is no good for a hose. I've made my own odd sized O-rings with super glue. In fact there used to be a kit available just for this.


Thanks for the tip, but if water is going to present a problem later I think I'd better just replace it. But I will be using the super glue fix to solve some other problems :thumbsup:

Dwhoelse
05-22-07, 01:49 AM
Might work Koz, but the split is usually on the bottom and quite hard to reach.
I suppose one could take the plenum off and attempt it.
If you have the money it is worth replacing the plenum.
Also you'll need 8 intake seals, they should be replaced when the intake comes off.


Is this week good to bring it in? What's a ball park cost to expect to replace the above mentioned items?

ewill3rd
05-22-07, 06:36 AM
I'll have to call my parts guy today and double check prices on parts.

If you want to PM me a phone number I can have an advisor call you.
Is there anyone you usually deal with when you bring your car in to us or have you been to Lindsay before?

Dwhoelse
05-24-07, 09:40 PM
I'll have to call my parts guy today and double check prices on parts.

If you want to PM me a phone number I can have an advisor call you.
Is there anyone you usually deal with when you bring your car in to us or have you been to Lindsay before?


I didn't realize I needed 20 post before I could send a PM. I've dealt with one of the shop foremans(I can't recall his name) and the service writer was Mike. I can give him a call. Is there anything I should tell him or is it better that you talk to him first?

D

ewill3rd
05-25-07, 07:39 AM
Go ahead and call Mike, tell him you have been talking to Bill.
Let him talk to me and we'll work up an estimate.
If he can bring up your info in the computer it will be easier for me to work up a price.
Then one of us will get back to you.

Dwhoelse
06-09-07, 02:11 PM
Just wanted to thank you Bill. As you know, I brought the vehicle in and your diagnosis was on the money. The Plenum was the was causing the problem and codes P0171 and P0174. Car is running as smooth as silk now. Thanks again.

D

ewill3rd
06-09-07, 02:27 PM
Glad to hear that it is running okay.
I was pretty busy that day but I wanted to get you taken care of.

Thanks for the note to let me know all is well.
I still have the old parts, if I get time I'll post what they look like so some folks can see.
The plenum has a nice big split right along the bottom, it was leaking so badly I could hear it when I opened the hood!

Enjoy!
:D

sweetdivel
06-13-07, 10:13 PM
I've sent my car to the dealer and they have changed both catalyst in the exhaust system and the light have been cleared.

thanks to you all.

mike sts
11-24-07, 12:20 AM
well I thought the car was fixed its been about 5 months but the codes are back, this time po0068 and po1111. Maybe it is the cold air that brings this on

sweetdivel
11-24-07, 07:55 AM
hi; the light came back again one month ago and the dealer said that the problem in the throttle body now so they cleaned it and it OK now.
thnx

ewill3rd
11-24-07, 02:09 PM
Mike,

The P0068 and P1101 are probably what you have.
It seems that replacing the throttle body seems to be fixing these, I have had a couple go away after this was done and not come back with the light on.
There are still no bulletins or helpful insight from GM on this one yet.

Cajonkev
11-24-07, 02:40 PM
Mike,

The P0068 and P1101 are probably what you have.
It seems that replacing the throttle body seems to be fixing these, I have had a couple go away after this was done and not come back with the light on.
There are still no bulletins or helpful insight from GM on this one yet.

Getting the same thing here now myself. Started two weeks ago. Took it in and they said the codes were 40 cycles old (they weren't) so reset ands asked to watch.

happened a couple of days later so took it back and they blamed the CAI for allowing too much air (It's been on for 40k so I doubt it...). Replaced the filter just in case (plus we had the SoCal fires recently) and away I went.

Six starts later and I'm throwing codes again. Service is going to want to put the original airbox back on it I'm sure but I just cannot convince myself that it could be the problem...

ewill3rd
11-24-07, 08:17 PM
Once it starts I can usually get them to act up.
You have to catch it on the first start of the day, don't turn it back off.
The codes will set on a cold start for that ignition cycle, but if you turn it off and back on the codes will not reset, perhaps until the next morning. Seems to be an issue when the weather gets colder.

mike sts
11-25-07, 12:02 PM
ewill3rd,
you helped me a while back with my 2005 sts. the check engine light was worked on from march to june they changed a o2 cesor and did a fule injection cleaner and the light stayed off but the weather got warm as well. you wrote you thought the problem was related to ethanol in the fuel and worse in cold weather, this makes sense cause we just got hit in Rhode Island with freezing weather and my light is back on. Codes po 0068 and po 1111. Back then you posted a special air box helped a car. how can i get this airbox? Or do you think I should ask the dealer to replace the throtle body? This is very concerning this should not be happening to a car with 30000 miles



Mike

ewill3rd
11-26-07, 08:23 AM
See your PM I sent.
I think they need to replace the throttle body for you.
Let me know how it turns out.

cguthrie
11-26-07, 06:48 PM
Guys,

I just go the P1101 code again, after the temp dropped again. I've only had this car for @12K, and I believe it had a fresh air filter when I purchased it.

I'm reading that the p1101 refers to the actual measured airflow from MAF MAP EGR &TP is not within range of calculated airflow. Now, the car runs perfectly, and I don't know if I really have an issue or if the computer is just throwing off BS info. I do not have time to take a well running car into the dealer, and would be frankly a bit scared that they might switch something out and I could be in a worse position! (excluding our Alexandria dealership friends, of course)

Any updates on this? I don't believe I can harm anything driving with this, or am I wrong? Since my other vehicle is a POS, I have a code reader and can clear these easily, but would like to solve the problem, if there is a problem.

I miss the ability to read codes through the heater buttons on my old Caddie 99STS, but the graphic of the engine is at least entertaining. When will we get a code and associated faults on the display?

Ironically, I had a cone K&N on my last n* for over 110K, without MAF codes thrown or drivability issues. Now I'm trying to behave, and I get the engine service light!

Many thanks,

CG
2005 STS 1SG 36K

mike sts
11-26-07, 08:03 PM
If the check engine light is on you cannot use your remote start, when mine was hooked up tp a computer it was running just a bit lean which could effect emissions and horepower but maybe not noticible

ewill3rd
12-01-07, 04:19 PM
True, if the MIL comes on the remote start will not work.

The P1101 is usually accompanied by other codes.
It doesn't physically harm anything but it is an indication of a problem.
I'd advise getting it looked at, even if you can't bring it to us.

I haven't gathered enough data to be sure of this, but it looks like this is some sort of issue (as noted above) with the throttle body.

mike sts
12-03-07, 07:50 PM
way back you stated caddillac was working on a software solution that will fix this issue, is there a tsb on this? seems like there should be one

Cajonkev
12-19-07, 03:24 AM
Had it back in a little over a week ago for 0068 and 1101. I have a good relationship with the Service Manager so we chatted and I let him take a look at some of the info here (thanks Will). I also brought in the factory airbox just in case and gave him the option of swapping it out to be sure.

He took my word for it (and the info here) and R&R'd the throttle body under warranty.

Not a single code since...

mike sts
12-26-07, 08:53 PM
They put a new throtle body on the car back in may, i cant imagine that could be it, codes p0068 and p1111 are back. I cleared them and they are back came back on a cold day. if that matters. I wish I could get some gas without ethanol to see if that helps

mike sts
12-26-07, 09:56 PM
ew3erd I found these tsb's could one of these fix my fuel code issues?


Make : CADILLAC Model : STS Year : 2005
Manufacturer : GENERAL MOTORS CORP.
Service Bulletin Num : 3505 Date of Bulletin: JAN 01, 1901
NHTSA Item Number: 10016490
Component: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
Summary:
DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES INVOLVING MASS AIR FLOW (MAF)/INTAKE AIR TEMPERATURE (IAT) SENSOR; BAROMETRIC PRESSURE (BARO) SENSOR; ENGINE OIL PRESSURE (EOP) SENSOR; THROTTLE POSITION (TP) SENSOR; ACCELERATOR PEDAL POSITION (APP) SENSOR; A/C REFRIGERANT PRESSURE SENSOR; FUEL TANK PRESSURE (FTP) SENSOR. *TT


Make : CADILLAC Model : STS Year : 2005
Manufacturer : GENERAL MOTORS CORP.
Service Bulletin Num : 3215 Date of Bulletin: JAN 01, 1901
NHTSA Item Number: 10010864
Component: FUEL SYSTEM, OTHER
Summary:
CHECK ENGINE LIGHT ON DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODE P0446, P0451, OR P0453 MAY HAVE A HARD TO FILL FUEL TANK. *TT

ewill3rd
12-27-07, 09:38 AM
That first one is a PI, it pertains to loss of a signal for all those sensors. It also only applies to the 2.8 or 3.6 engine.

The second is also a PI but it is related to cobwebs in the EVAP vent tube that could be causing those issues.

Has your dealer updated the PCM control software? They already replaced the throttle body?

mike sts
12-27-07, 12:22 PM
they swaped out a new pcm into the car, did not correct the problem. Last time it was in they swaped out parts from a good car into mine seems like the fuel injection cleaning and new throtle body only helped the condition enough to keep the light off a few months, there is something they are missing

ewill3rd
12-28-07, 10:13 PM
I'd say they need to talk to TAC but it is hard to get someone who knows about this problem up there.
Maybe some more guys have closed cases? I need to check my TAC cases and close a bunch of them before they come after me!

blunted
05-21-08, 04:24 PM
bump..

Did this ever get resolved?

mike sts
02-05-09, 10:38 PM
Just a FYI this has never been resolved. The car has had an issue with running lean since 9159 miles on it, car now has 63000 miles on it. Most recently the delaer has cleaned the injectors 2nd time, changed throtle body 3rd time, tightened all hoes, put in a nef MAF and PCM ( actually kept code off for 3000 miles longest ever). If anyone has ever found how to fix this, or knows a good caddi repair dealer in RI or CT let me know

porkfarm
02-06-09, 12:11 PM
Check the small hose that goes from the snorkel to the valve cover. ( after the air cleaner ) make sure it is snug and no cracks. That will throw that code.

Angus Young
05-31-09, 10:23 PM
Greeting's I have an 05 1sg now with 131,000 on it, it has been throwing the following codes for the last 20,000 miles and was wondering what the final fix was:
P1101
P0068
P0420
P0430
P0174
I cleaned off the MAF with MAF cleaning solution, ran various fuels, cleared codez several times and still damn light keeps coming back on

ewill3rd
06-01-09, 09:19 AM
Angus,
You'll get better luck starting a new topic of your own. ;)

However.... you need a throttle body and two catalytic converters.
Ouch! That is a lot of miles for an '05

Angus Young
06-01-09, 10:09 AM
Are the cats and the throttle body dealer items only? or is there aftermarket solutions available, I see there are no headers made for the 4.6 and as far as I can tell the entire exhaust manifold must be replaced. Also the throttle body, according to replys listed here in this thread that usually doesnt fix the problem permanently, and the reason I am reasking is my warrenty is clearly expired and this would be an out of pocket venture, the dealer quoted me $1900.00 for the cats, and are you aware of a aftermarket throttle body I can consider?
Thanks for your response!

mike sts
06-01-09, 09:38 PM
My car had both cats replaced also. codes came back. The last time it went in they looked again must have been the 10th time for air leaks and they found a air leak tech said he tighed all the hoses and fixed the leak the codes has been gone for 10,000 miles. It seems even small difficult to find air leaks can cause these cars to run lean. The final verdict for me was 15 trips to the dealer for this. The tech states the car definetly needed a maf and pcm, not sure about all the other parts they put in. I would say the cheepest place to start would probably be checking for and fixing any possible air leaks. Problem is you will need a very good tech, my experience with 2 different dealers was that the techs missed these air leaks 14 times and they stated they checked for them every time. One other tech near the begining of this found and fixed a air leak, he must have missed the other. Hope this helps. If you go through what I went through your looking at thousands on parts

mike sts
06-01-09, 09:41 PM
for parts I would go to GM parts direct or another online source you will save 40 to 50 %, most non dealer repair shops will install parts you bring to them especially if they are new factory. After all when they accept after maret warranty's these company's ship them parts many times to save money

mike sts
06-01-09, 09:47 PM
Ewill would know this better than I but if your car is running lean this can trigger catalyst codes because the cat is sensing impropper fuel and exuast levels and tries to correct. it will trow many other codes as well because the various sensors and computers are sensing and trying to adjust for this.

ewill3rd
06-02-09, 09:27 AM
On the V8 longitudinal N* engine the throttle bodies seem to be an issue.
The P1101 and P0068 indicate that the throttle body is not operating properly causing an airflow issue which will in turn set lean codes.
Other codes aside the P0420 and P0430 indicate that the converters are not working properly.

I don't know of any aftermarket parts available but I don't watch the aftermarket very closely. You'd have to do some searching or hope someone on here has seen that.
As I stated, you might start a new thread and outline questions that you have remaining.

If this is a V8 (which I suspect it is) the converters are going to be hard to find because they are actually part of the exhaust manifold, and a bear to replace.