: Heel and Toe down shifting Video



SlvrVee
03-03-07, 02:42 AM
Saw this article and video in the latest issue of C&D on downshifting. If U haven't seen it check it out at
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/12537/quick-feet.html

RamAir02
03-03-07, 02:32 PM
pretty cool video :thumbsup:

ZEUSROTTY
03-03-07, 04:14 PM
My old man taught me that when I was 16.... Great video... I wish they had that 18 years ago. I thought he was nuts when he first showed it to me...

HushH
03-03-07, 04:19 PM
Would be a lot easier to do in our cars if we didn't have that damn hump in the floorboard.

BBV
03-03-07, 05:58 PM
Would be a lot easier to do in our cars if we didn't have that damn hump in the floorboard.

:confused:
What hump? How could it get any easier?

BBV
03-03-07, 06:02 PM
opps double double post post

dqw1
03-03-07, 06:23 PM
All this time I was ashamed to ask. I need to practice some tomorrow.

Imperator
03-03-07, 09:34 PM
:confused:
What hump? How could it get any easier?

It would be much easier if our brake pedal and throttle were close to the same level. I tried this last night and rolled my foot off the corner of the brake pedal when attempting to blip the throttle.

HushH
03-03-07, 10:59 PM
:confused:
What hump? How could it get any easier?

I'm sure it's my technique, seat level, or just my big feet (probably all three), but my heel catches on the floorboard all the time when lifting it. It's not a problem in day-to-day driving because I'm lazy and never really lift my heel off the floor. But I definitely have a rise in my floorboard right before the pedals. It's not huge but significant enough that it gets in my way. Like I said, I probably need to change my technique, but it was not an issue for me when I ran the Panoz around Road Atlanta.



It would be much easier if our brake pedal and throttle were close to the same level. I tried this last night and rolled my foot off the corner of the brake pedal when attempting to blip the throttle.

This isn't an issue when you're really running around the track and you're braking 75% or more. At that point the pedals are at near even level.

Black Sunshine
03-03-07, 11:08 PM
A lil bend in the knee helps.

The cat's meow would be a nice toe/heel brake pedal plate extension. Anyone make one?

Late BrakeU2
03-05-07, 12:26 AM
Would be a lot easier to do in our cars if we didn't have that damn hump in the floorboard.


Dr. Frederick Frankenstein (http://imdb.com/name/nm0000698/): You know, I'm a rather brilliant surgeon. Perhaps I can help you with that hump.
Igor (http://imdb.com/name/nm0001204/): What hump?

RamAir02
03-05-07, 10:51 AM
Anyone that is running the autovation pedals, does the wider accelerator pedal really make a difference for heel toe downshifting? I was looking at some pics on their website and they look like a quality product. The space between the gas and brake is MUCH smaller as well. I think I may order up a set.

heavypedal
03-05-07, 01:37 PM
good question....those folks with Autovation have an answer?

T

trukk
03-05-07, 03:31 PM
2 years ago I had no idea what heel toe was.

I went to my first track weekend, and they mentioned it in one of the drivers meetings. I figured I'd give it a try, next time out on the track. Of course I didn't mention this to my instructor. Needless to say, I tried it, and it didn't work out too well. Luckily I wasn't going very fast, and didn't have an off track excursion. I got an earful from my instructor about trying that out for the first time while on track. I told him I was done with that for the weekend.

After getting home, I started practicing it while normal DD'ing. I now do it without even noticing, it's just part of normal driving.

Fast forward to two wekends ago at VIR, my first tracktime, since the description above. I was in the novice group, and my instructor was very impressed that I was heel-toing so well :D I told him the story about before, and he laughed, and was glad that I practiced off course after that one incident. Before he could say anything, I assured him that my 'experimentation' urge had been satisfied in that last trip, and that I would go over any 'new' stuff I wanted to try out with him, BEFORE attempting it on track.

I then went on to tell him, how flipin far apart the Caddy pedals are, and that the caddy lawyers must have went nuts after the Audi lawsuits of a few years ago. I even told him I had to wear clown shoes to properly do it. He laughed so more but didn't really say anything. At the end of the session, I showed him the shoes I was wearing, and how far apart the actual pedals are, and he really did laugh (I was wearing lowtop Dr. Marten's, because they have good grip, are leather, and a about 8 feet wide). He was a bit amazed at the 3" gap between the pedals, but he again said my technique was good none the less.

HEEL TOEing is FUN (and sounds cool too).

-Chris

kgoch
03-05-07, 05:05 PM
RamAir02 I just pm'd you.

punkhaus
03-05-07, 05:38 PM
The autovation pedals do help as both the brake and gas are a touch wider. In fact, the bigger your feet are the easier this maneuver should be as the width of foot will help reduce the distance of travel. What i find more difficult than the distance side to side is the distance in elevation. My brake pedal seems to be quite a bit higher than the accelerator.

My best advice is get a pair of chucks. the flat, broad sole is far easier to utilize than a racing shoe. But, you still get a good amount of information and feedback from the pedals.

However, I have found that most of it is just practice and muscle memory. You're suddenly doing three things at once instead of two. Likewise, you're now doing two with one foot. Most of the annoyance is in teaching your feet to do what you want, less about the distance traveled. Get the cadence right and you can deal with the distance.

It's just like playing drums... double bass that is. ;)

- J

50 4Ever
03-05-07, 06:13 PM
Yes, the Autovation pedals work. And when you install them you can still put them a little closer together.

Concerning heel and toe, practice it while you are parked on a level surface. For me, it does not work when driving on the street because I never brake hard enough to get the pedals even, and the track is really not a place to practice it, you can perfect it on the track. I brake with the ball of my foot on the brake pedal, then move my right leg to the console. I found out that this way lets me have a more steady pressure on the brake while rolling the foot. I first tried keeping the leg steady and rolling the foot. This provided me with either not enough or too much brake while trying to roll the foot. The idea of doing it while stationary lets you experiment and see what works best for you. Boris Said actually rotates his foot a little counter-clockwise and blips the gas with his heel, he does not roll the foot. There is no right or wrong way, just find out what works the best for you.

Here's the clip of Boris Said:
ihCgxQnex5Q

:thumbsup:

BBV
03-05-07, 06:57 PM
I'm sure it's my technique, seat level, or just my big feet (probably all three), but my heel catches on the floorboard all the time when lifting it. It's not a problem in day-to-day driving because I'm lazy and never really lift my heel off the floor. But I definitely have a rise in my floorboard right before the pedals. It's not huge but significant enough that it gets in my way. Like I said, I probably need to change my technique, but it was not an issue for me when I ran the Panoz around Road Atlanta.

Yep I think you’ve got it. My heel is never on the floor when braking and downshifting and you are right about the “hump”. I checked my car and floor is not flat.


This isn't an issue when you're really running around the track and you're braking 75% or more. At that point the pedals are at near even level.

You are so correct on the pedal height. If the brake pedal was on the same plane as the accelerator at rest it would be a mess when setting up for a corner downshifting and braking at the threshold of triggering ABS.

You get it! :worship:

BadCad
03-05-07, 06:59 PM
Heel & Toe shifting is the same as double clutching, right? Or am I showing my age...

50 4Ever
03-05-07, 08:36 PM
Heel & Toe shifting is the same as double clutching, right? Or am I showing my age...

You are showing your age. Heel & Toe is downshifting while braking. Double clutching has nothing to do with the brake.

:thumbsup:

HiTechRV
03-05-07, 09:02 PM
My last class at Mid-Ohio we did a whole drill on heel and toe. I plowed the most cones I think LOL. At least I won the slalom in their wretched Acuras. The best guy in the class raced one of those little one speed 3.0 g go carts.

V-Love
03-29-07, 08:29 PM
All this time I was ashamed to ask. I need to practice some tomorrow.

Were all friends here. I asked my instructor on my 1st track day. It took me a while. I still mess it up occasionally. You have to match those RPM's.

Accidentally bumped this up while checking out video. Sorry.

50 4Ever
03-30-07, 03:11 PM
Here's how I learned, maybe it will help some, maybe not. Do this with cold rotors on a level surface while parked. The end result you want is constant pressure on the brake while you blip the throttle. Put your foot on the brake with moderate pressure and try to blip the throttle. Try several different ways until you find one that works, and make a mental note of where your foot is on the brake pedal. Driving shoes really help for this because you can feel more thru the sole. The trick is to position your foot the same every time and use the same motion with your leg/foot to blip the throttle.

Now you're ready to try it on a long deserted street. I think this works best with a 3rd to 2nd downshift. In 3rd going about 50 MPH lift off the gas and place your foot on the brake, move it around until you have it positioned correctly. Then apply medium to moderate brake pressure and blip the throttle without shifting. Don't rush, find your position and you'll blip every time.

This is what works for me. I place the ball of my foot on the right side of the brake pedal (I have size 9 1/2 feet) and my foot is not straight up and down (12 o'clock) it is more like 1 o'clock or 1:30. Then I brake and when I have bled off enough speed I quickly move my right leg to the right and back (clear to the console). Most of the time I don't even have to roll my foot. I learned trying to roll my foot, I could never keep steady pressure on the brake and my foot slipped off the brake a few times, one time causing me to carry too much speed into a hairpin and I had to drive the school car off the track.

Then when you are out on the track, lift before the braking zone begins, find your foot position then brake, etc. Smooth = fast

Good luck... :thumbsup:

Jon
03-30-07, 04:21 PM
That's how I drive everyday right before I take a corner. Once I hit 60km/h (37mph) I'm in 6th gear. If I'm coming up to an intersection and I need to turn, I go from 6th to 2nd like that.

GMBOUND
03-30-07, 07:31 PM
50 4 Ever, thanks for the detail description. I'm new to this hi performance shifting business. Need all the detail I can get so I won't end up in a ditch.

Are there more videos on shifting?
Next vacation I get, I plan on being at somebodies school. Anybody know of some good schools near Kansas City or St. Louis?

SkullV
03-31-07, 02:03 AM
Great video I'm planning to start doing some autocross with the local car club and this will help me out a lot!