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Cadillac Escalade, EXT and ESV Forum - 2007-2014 Discussion, 2008 Escalade seat heater terminal plug melted ccsm in Cadillac Escalade Forums; After identifying the burnt pin on the module, would it be possible to leave the module connected, but bypass the ...
  1. #31
    PWGUNNY is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2008 Escalade seat heater terminal plug melted ccsm

    After identifying the burnt pin on the module, would it be possible to leave the module connected, but bypass the one burnt pin by connecting those 2 wires directly together? Sort of a jumper wire.

  2. #32
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    ocjmakaveli is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: 2008 Escalade seat heater terminal plug melted ccsm

    So i replaced my connector 3 months ago and now it is burned again. How can i fix this permanently? I don't understand about the wire people are soldering.
    HarleyGuy357 likes this.

  3. #33
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    Re: 2008 Escalade seat heater terminal plug melted ccsm

    Quote Originally Posted by ocjmakaveli View Post
    So i replaced my connector 3 months ago and now it is burned again. How can i fix this permanently? I don't understand about the wire people are soldering.
    Like I said in my previous post, eliminate the connector. Simply note where the wires belong, cut the connector, strip all the wires, clean the pins with alcohol, and solder all the wires to their respective pins.

  4. #34
    FLYING V is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2008 Escalade seat heater terminal plug melted ccsm

    Definitely a problem, we've had three heated seat issues in the past year alone.

  5. #35
    LeeMajors is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2008 Escalade seat heater terminal plug melted ccsm

    With this many burnt connectors, it begs the question... WHY?

    If that particular wire is heating up badly enough to burn through the connector and short itself out, it's drawing a HELL of a lot of amperage. Why that's not blowing the fuse at the fuse box is one very excellent question.

    Then we have people bypassing the connector and wiring the two wires directly together without an in-line fuse to protect against another thermal runaway, which is just BEGGING for an in-car fire. I would HIGHLY SUGGEST NOT DOING THIS WITHOUT AN IN-LINE FUSE!! You can buy one cheaply at Radio Shack.

    Until they figure out why the seat heaters are drawing that much amperage, I'd be leery of re-hooking things up without an in-line fuse for your own protection. GM is up to their eyeballs in recall of the ignition switches, but it usually takes someone dying or a lot of cars catching fire before GM does anything about it. Since they won't, please be smart out there, people. Just put a simple in-line fuse in your jury-rigged fix. Not hard, not expensive, and a lot safer.
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  6. #36
    mkosharkii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeMajors
    With this many burnt connectors, it begs the question... WHY? If that particular wire is heating up badly enough to burn through the connector and short itself out, it's drawing a HELL of a lot of amperage. Why that's not blowing the fuse at the fuse box is one very excellent question. Then we have people bypassing the connector and wiring the two wires directly together without an in-line fuse to protect against another thermal runaway, which is just BEGGING for an in-car fire. I would HIGHLY SUGGEST NOT DOING THIS WITHOUT AN IN-LINE FUSE!! You can buy one cheaply at Radio Shack. Until they figure out why the seat heaters are drawing that much amperage, I'd be leery of re-hooking things up without an in-line fuse for your own protection. GM is up to their eyeballs in recall of the ignition switches, but it usually takes someone dying or a lot of cars catching fire before GM does anything about it. Since they won't, please be smart out there, people. Just put a simple in-line fuse in your jury-rigged fix. Not hard, not expensive, and a lot safer.
    Burnt CONNECTORS, not WIRES.
    The wire is not heating up and burning the connector, that's ridiculous. The gauge of the wire is sufficient to handle the load carried. The system is likely drawing no more than designed. Unless I missed it, we have yet to see a case of burnt wire (besides in the immediate vicinity and coming out of the connector). The female terminals on the connector(s) make poor contact (insufficient surface area) with the pins, thereby adding undue resistance, the byproduct being heat. Removing the source of resistance, cleaning the contacts, cutting back, stripping, and tinning the wires, and then soldering them all on is hardly a "jury-rig". I understand your concern with the core issue, but not all fixes are poorly executed. Even if GM conducted a recall with a revised connector, my fix would be a superior product.

  7. #37
    Zl700 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Chiming in
    I had the same problem on my 07 Escalade at about 93,000 miles.
    Dealer told me about $2,200 to replace the fans and thermistors.
    Yea right, I read about the problem online, found the harness on floor at rear of passenger seat and bypassed 2 or 3 wires, I don't recall exactly. Seats worked but cooling fans would time out after about 30 seconds. I took a risk invested $200 in the module located under the passenger seat in front.

    It's still working 1 year and 15,000 miles later

    But it still doesn't work as good as the seats on my new 2014 XTS-V sport!

  8. #38
    LeeMajors is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2008 Escalade seat heater terminal plug melted ccsm

    Quote Originally Posted by mkosharkii View Post
    Burnt CONNECTORS, not WIRES.
    The wire is not heating up and burning the connector, that's ridiculous. The gauge of the wire is sufficient to handle the load carried. The system is likely drawing no more than designed. Unless I missed it, we have yet to see a case of burnt wire (besides in the immediate vicinity and coming out of the connector). The female terminals on the connector(s) make poor contact (insufficient surface area) with the pins, thereby adding undue resistance, the byproduct being heat. Removing the source of resistance, cleaning the contacts, cutting back, stripping, and tinning the wires, and then soldering them all on is hardly a "jury-rig". I understand your concern with the core issue, but not all fixes are poorly executed. Even if GM conducted a recall with a revised connector, my fix would be a superior product.
    I'm sorry, I missed the part where you had tested the CCSM under load and had completely eliminated a high-draw heating element causing the burn-out in the connector. I'm sure GM would love to hear of your extensive testing.

    Going back in time a decade to the 2001-2002 (and even some 2003-2004) Dodge Ram trucks, the ignition switch CONNECTOR was melting and causing fires. That's right, and it wasn't the loose connector that was the problem. It was early failure of the fan module drawing a high amount of current through the wire, causing it to heat up, causing the connector to burn out and melt, causing even FURTHER increased amperage draw, then catching the entire ignition wire assembly on fire and burning trucks to the ground.

    They finally issued a recall on it.

    Until you can 100% guarantee that you have eliminated some trucks having an excessively high draw of current through that wire for the seat heaters, I would STRONGLY URGE you and anyone else who bypasses the connector like this TO SIMPLY WIRE IN A FUSE inline with the bypassed problem wire.

    Why take a chance with something that would cost $4.00 at Radio Shack (in-line 15amp fuse crimp connector) to make sure??!! That's simply an unnecessary risk.

    Could be the connector, could be something else, but until you have run multiple trucks that have had this failure with the heated seats for current draw under all temperature/running conditions, and you have duplicated the known failure area MULTIPLE TIMES and can therefore prove beyond a shadow of a doubt EXACTLY what the cause is (not just speculation based on anecdotal post-melting observations), telling people just to hotwire the two leads together could be setting yourself up for one hell of a lawsuit if someone's seat warmers cause a fire because it's the heater element with a problem and not just the connector.

    Just a word to the wise, coming from an Aerospace Engineer. You can take it for what it's worth, hopefully others who read this thread will take a simple precaution that is cheap and takes all of 5 extra minutes to install in that wiring.

  9. #39
    mkosharkii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeMajors
    I'm sorry, I missed the part where you had tested the CCSM under load and had completely eliminated a high-draw heating element causing the burn-out in the connector. I'm sure GM would love to hear of your extensive testing. Going back in time a decade to the 2001-2002 (and even some 2003-2004) Dodge Ram trucks, the ignition switch CONNECTOR was melting and causing fires. That's right, and it wasn't the loose connector that was the problem. It was early failure of the fan module drawing a high amount of current through the wire, causing it to heat up, causing the connector to burn out and melt, causing even FURTHER increased amperage draw, then catching the entire ignition wire assembly on fire and burning trucks to the ground. They finally issued a recall on it. Until you can 100% guarantee that you have eliminated some trucks having an excessively high draw of current through that wire for the seat heaters, I would STRONGLY URGE you and anyone else who bypasses the connector like this TO SIMPLY WIRE IN A FUSE inline with the bypassed problem wire. Why take a chance with something that would cost $4.00 at Radio Shack (in-line 15amp fuse crimp connector) to make sure??!! That's simply an unnecessary risk. Could be the connector, could be something else, but until you have run multiple trucks that have had this failure with the heated seats for current draw under all temperature/running conditions, and you have duplicated the known failure area MULTIPLE TIMES and can therefore prove beyond a shadow of a doubt EXACTLY what the cause is (not just speculation based on anecdotal post-melting observations), telling people just to hotwire the two leads together could be setting yourself up for one hell of a lawsuit if someone's seat warmers cause a fire because it's the heater element with a problem and not just the connector. Just a word to the wise, coming from an Aerospace Engineer. You can take it for what it's worth, hopefully others who read this thread will take a simple precaution that is cheap and takes all of 5 extra minutes to install in that wiring.
    Ah, an engineer. A rocket scientist no less! That explains a lot. Well, I'm a lowly (former) Submarine Electronics Technician. I've worked with one or two burnt leads, wires, connectors, CCAs... You name it. I have this creeping suspicion that I have more experience in the field than you. I'm also certified in 2M microminiature repair and have various QA qualifications, so I can solder pretty well and check my own work too! Forums like these have seen countless car owners find solutions to their vehicular woes without extensive analysis, or an Engineering department! Most of us have even managed to emerge from our endeavors without burning our cars to the ground or getting sued. Speaking of which, are you serious? Your apparent level of education would suggest otherwise. If you actually believed that, I'm sure you wouldn't have added your inline fuse suggestion, thereby making you a contributor to this heinous solution of mine. They wouldn't get much from me anyway. An Aerospace Engineer though... Am I really suggesting for people to "hotwire two leads together"? Would I? No. Generally speaking, to "hotwire" is to bypass a switch of some sort, and as such have a constant "on" condition. My solution simply eliminates a connector that is only present by virtue of the manner in which the seat in constructed. Did your fellow brothers in engineering at GM design an integrated anti ass burning fail safe in these connectors? A sort of pseudo-fuse that is the keystone of the seat heating / cooling circuit? Nope, they didn't. But there are two connectors with loose female terminals that nobody's going to miss!
    Oh, and here's my extensive testing / observations...
    GM Engineered product (involved several engineers, but not of the Aerospace sort): Occasionally burning smell, finally starting smoking slightly and quit working.

    Some guy (and several other forum members with similar solutions) with no formal engineering background's product: No burning smell, no smoke. Several years of real world testing.

    Can you find one instance of someone's repair failing? I'm sure your engineer brain flags that as irrelevant, but we're not all engineers here
    ----------
    And I forgot to mention, the pertinent TSB specifically references a "poor connection" as opposed to "overheated connection due to excessive current draw". Do engineers have a hand in drafting TSBs? I'm sure they contribute in some capacity.

  10. #40
    LeeMajors is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2008 Escalade seat heater terminal plug melted ccsm

    Again, you and I can flout our experience and backgrounds until we're blue in the face, but until you solve the EXACT cause of the problem by DUPLICATING the failure MULTIPLE TIMES, which is what GM does before they go shotgunning solutions out there, you are still running the risk of not identifying the exact failure and having a resultant repeat issue (as some others on this thread have mentioned simply jumpering the wire as you suggest) and risk having a fire as a result.

    Zl700 above stated he bypassed several wires and the repair worked for a short time and failed, so not everyone who simply straight wires the connector has had your success. I'm be surprised if he was the only one.

    The loose connector very well MIGHT be the sole problem. But then again, it might not. I know I'm not going to convince you, you're clearly entrenched in your belief of your own solution, but for other people reading this thread, I HIGHLY, HIGHLY suggest simply putting a fuse in-line with any directly-wired connections. I've wired many a connection in my time just like you (including recently re-wiring my entire center dash panel in my 07 Escalade EXT, radio, A/C, everything), and I've also directly jumpered a wire around a connector before; it's not that it shouldn't be done, it's just that in this case it's being done with the BELIEF you have identified the correct culprit, but not the PROOF. Therefore, a little insurance is simply a prudent move. No more, no less.

    Good luck.

  11. #41
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    Re: 2008 Escalade seat heater terminal plug melted ccsm

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeMajors View Post
    as some others on this thread have mentioned simply jumpering the wire as you suggest
    I did not jumper any wires. No jumping, jumpering, jumps, or otherwise involved. I ELIMINATED THE PROBLEM CONNECTOR IN ITS ENTIRETY. The guys who jumpered the wire(s) are likely referring to the connection on the floor; another problem area. The original connector is a loose female pin (extra resistance) crimped (more resistance, although probably negligible) to the wire.
    My connection is a proper soldering job directly to the terminal on the CCSM (no point of added resistance).
    You suggest an inline fuse. That ADDS four additional notable sources of resistance: Two crimps, and a contact point on either side of the fuse. Crimps done improperly (very likely) could result in either the wire breaking (and maybe shorting to the seat frame!), or increased resistance (back at square one!) Either of these problems could occur on the "hot side" of the fuse, rendering it useless and your point null. That being said, your suggestion is actually MORE likely to cause a problem than any others suggested here! If your lawsuit point had been valid, you would be at the greatest risk of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeMajors View Post
    Zl700 above stated he bypassed several wires and the repair worked for a short time and failed, so not everyone who simply straight wires the connector has had your success. I'm be surprised if he was the only one.
    Dude, read his post again.
    He bypassed the wires, but the CCSM had ALREADY FAILED (hence the timeouts), so he replaced it. No more problems! He didn't bypass the wires and then suffer another conductor failure. His "second failure" has no bearing on what we are specifically discussing. Come on man.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeMajors View Post
    Again, you and I can flout our experience and backgrounds until we're blue in the face
    I wouldn't argue with you about rockets or aerodynamics, or whatever is relevant to your specific field. You probably shouldn't so strongly contest me here...

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeMajors View Post
    but until you solve the EXACT cause of the problem
    I did. GM just beat me to it, not that I knew that for certain until a few minutes ago...
    Google is my friend, and so are the powers that be at GM who wrote this TSB...
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...ed%20seats.pdf
    There's some REALLY heavy cryptic stuff in there about loose connections or something. It even has pictures! I don't get it though. I'm not an engineer, so perhaps you can decipher it for me. My extensive background in connector repair clearly lends no credibility in this situation.

    So what have we learned here?
    -The problem is a loose connection
    -Aerospace Engineers have no place diagnosing / repairing electronics
    -A poor fitting terminal is the EXACT cause of the problem
    -The loose connector IS the sole problem
    -Rocket Scientists only trust other engineers
    -I BELIEVED a loose electrical connection to be the problem, then LOOKED at it and VERIFIED it fit loose. All without a college degree!
    -The PROOF is in the loose connection
    -Aerospace Engineers specialize in fear mongering
    -I was right
    -A Rocket Scientist wishing you "Good Luck" is magical. I found that specific bulletin SECONDS after reading that blessing.

    GM's bulletin providing credibility to my assessment was not some stroke of luck for me, it's because I know what I'm talking about here.

    PEOPLE, GM HAS SPOKEN. FEEL FREE TO EXECUTE THIS REPAIR (sans inline fuse) WITHOUT FEAR OF CREATING A BLACK HOLE OR WHATEVER. WITH GM'S BLESSING NOW SECURED, THE ROCKET SCIENTIST IN THE SKY WILL NOW SMILE UPON YOUR EFFORTS.

    ----------

    I'm surprised nobody cut us short with knowledge of that bulletin. That wouldn't have been nearly as fun though

  12. #42
    LeeMajors is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2008 Escalade seat heater terminal plug melted ccsm

    We have not learned anything of the sort. What we HAVE learned is that:

    A.) Your arrogance is going to get you in trouble someday.
    B.) You simply can't acknowledge that quite possibly TSB's get revised when they realize they have not fully addressed an issue (pretty sure they're eating crow on a certain ignition switch TSB that turned into a full-on recall lately).
    C.) That wiring an in-line fuse to the wire that keeps burning into the connector would be an extra piece of insurance in case GM is wrong on this one as well.

    Wouldn't be the first time GM was wrong on something. Clearly the Navy didn't teach you any humility while you were in. Shame that, clearly the Academy or even OCS would have helped there. You're quite possibly right, but quite possibly you and GM are wrong. The most recent ignition switch recall is a great example of something they thought they had addressed but clearly did not.

    I'd use a fuse. If someone else doesn't want to, that's on them.

    I'll let you have the last word, so bash away if it makes you feel better. I'm out.

  13. #43
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    Re: 2008 Escalade seat heater terminal plug melted ccsm

    Your points, in order.

    A.) Thats reasonable, except that it probably would have already. I suppose I'd come off less so if it wasn't for the overuse of sarcasm. However, we're talking about something VERY obvious and elementary here. There is a physically obvious and KNOWN loose connection causing failures. There are no DOCUMENTED failures post fixing. Oh, and you arbitrarily mentioned being an Aerospace Engineer (which is arrogant since it wasn't even relevant). At least my credentials are relevant, although admittedly not as impressive as yours. Furthermore, I only mentioned them because of you randomly flaunting yours.
    B.) Really? You repeatedly touted how GM would conduct thorough testing before coming to a conclusion like mine. Now provided with said conclusion, you backtrack and mention the ignition switch recall. That is a WHOLE different animal and totally irrelevant.
    C.) I edited in an additional point to my previous post while you were typing, so I'm sure you missed it. If you care to, revisit the beginning of my last post where I addressed your fuse idea.

    Regarding OCS or the Academy, I'm sure many other enlisted guys would agree that some officers tend to be the most arrogant in the military, at least in the submarine community.

    Being an enlisted sailor is a powerful crash course in humility if you want to succeed, but it also means sticking to your guns when you know you're right and the guy above you with an Academy ring thinks otherwise. To put it more in these terms, if you had been my Navigator (Department Head) and asserted your inline fuse idea, I would have informed my Chief of my solution vs yours, and done it your way if he didn't feel it was important enough to merit arguing with you or going above you. I never encountered any abrasion with any an officer when repairing things though, and I had enough humility to back down in most other matters. I was trusted fully in my ability to repair. I was the guy the Captain himself would call over the 1MC to troubleshoot my division's broken gear when it was truly important. I was not outstanding in all aspects of my job; just a few. Oh, and I never had to spend any "personal time" with a superior. Hell, the only talks I got were about not shaving, and they were more of a statement than a conversation.

  14. #44
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    Re: 2008 Escalade seat heater terminal plug melted ccsm

    We in the submarine world would say you are "nuking" this problem.

    I just keep thinking of more things... Although this is particularly relevant.
    Any electric R/C car guys here... In the NiCd days there was (is still?) a common type of battery plug known as a "Tamiya Plug". It was well known for the female barrel pins becoming loose. I can imagine when it was first discovered as a common problem, you and I sitting around arguing about it...

    Me- "Dude, this thing just melted. I decided to just cut off the plug and solder my battery to the speed controller leads."
    Other Guys: "Yea, us too. Although some of us just jumpered across the plug."
    You- "WHAT! Your cars are going to start a cataclysmic event and the death of all humanity! At least put an inline fuse in there, lest you all be CAST TO HELL!"
    Me- "No. Many of us have looked in the burnt or melted plugs and seen the female barrel pin stretched. Nobody who switched to the newer plugs or soldered the connection has seen a subsequent failure."
    You- "Have you tested your theory in (insert a variety of environments and such over the top repeatability nonsense here)? Tamiya hasn't condoned this. They would laugh at you. EVERYONE use an inline fuse... Please note that I am an Aerospace Engineer."
    Me- "And I (insert ONLY RELEVENT military experience here). Therefore, I'm fairly qualified to pass this assertion as fact."
    Tamiya- "It's the plug. Observe the loose leads and replace with tighter ones. The leads are loose, and here's a bunch of pictures. Loose leads, bad plug, pretty pictures, happy times."
    Me- "SEE ABOVE"
    You- "You're arrogant. Tamiya is currently getting bit in the ass because their monster trucks have a penchant for throwing their spur gear and decapitating the operator, which they swept under the rug for years. So ignore my previous assertion that only Tamiya can provide the answer, because their word means nothing. (Insert some creepy comment about "you and I having a great deal of personal time if you were in my unit") (Later replace it with "I'm out")

    The end!

  15. #45
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    Re: 2008 Escalade seat heater terminal plug melted ccsm

    Now would be a good time to possibly report this to all the local new agencies. CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, CNN etc. they are already under fire about covering up the ignition switch issue, and this could cause a serious fire inside the cabin of a vehicle that they refuse to do anything about. To me this would be news worthy.
    There are enough posts on this forum to substantiate the claim, and in my opinion this would at least force GM to acknowledge the issue before one of us or our family members or any Cadillac owners for that matter get hurt or killed.

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