UPDATE ON FIRE Recall for Heated Wipers - Page 4
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Cadillac Escalade, EXT and ESV Forum - 2007-2014 Discussion, UPDATE ON FIRE Recall for Heated Wipers in Cadillac Escalade Forums; Be mad in one hand and spit in the other, let me know which one fills up faster. My point ...
  1. #46
    ewill3rd is offline Cadillac Technician
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    Re: UPDATE ON FIRE Recall for Heated Wipers

    Be mad in one hand and spit in the other, let me know which one fills up faster.

    My point is, I didn't make this decision, GM did.
    If you guys want to be mad about that and complain please feel free.
    I am not defending their position, although at times I can see it might seem like it. I am just saying it is what it is.
    The sun rises in the East and sets in the West, and GM has decided to remove this feature for whatever reason. Speculate all you want.
    Maybe they approached the new company for a solution and they told GM to get bent?
    Maybe a company that is recovering from bankruptcy has opted to do this to help save money?
    I don't know (nor does anyone else on here) and frankly, I don't really care.

    If you want to keep this feature on your car just don't ever take it to a dealer again and you won't have to worry about it.
    That's about the only REAL solution I see here.

  2. #47
    Gigantor is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: UPDATE ON FIRE Recall for Heated Wipers

    Quote Originally Posted by WaterKing View Post
    According to the site: http://alphathermusa.com/heatedwash-AT-37GM.html There is a plug and play solution...however the recall has all the plug ends cut off. I understand GM not wanting to go through another "we made changes but it didn't seem to be fully successful" debacle but it would seem that they could cut a big deal with the above company that makes the manufacturer responsible for anything directly related to the heater and just replace it with the supposedly better unit for less than the $100 offered. If I responsibly consider the current system a risk and voluntarily purchase and install the cited unit does this mean that GM will take my aftermarket unit out and cut the plugs off if they get there hands on my vehicle? If I wait until they have already done the recall I will have the added cost of connectors and will still run the risk of an overzealous dealer seeing the unit during a routine service and ripping it out. The company's other universal unit might be a better choice anyway because it requires no push of the heated washer switch and no wiring to the inside of vehicle. That way I can use the heated washer switch on the dash to deactivate VSS so I can effectively use GPS or activate rear view camera to see what the trailer is doing.

    Whoever purchase the above replacement unit, please provide feedback

  3. #48
    WaterKing is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: UPDATE ON FIRE Recall for Heated Wipers

    Question to Alphatherm:

    I have a 2008 Escalade EXT and am considering getting your AT-37GM or AT-38OD. Am I correct that the 38 model keeps the fluid hot all the time and only needs power while the 37 model only heats the water when the heated washer function is activated on the dash? Can I use the 38 model without mounting issues? Do both models have the same heating capacity? Can I provide your answers on the Cadillac owner's forum? Thank you in advance, Alan



    Reply from Alphatherm:

    Your operation description is correct for both units.

    The At-38OD was developed for easy after market installation. The unit only connects to the battery and there is no need to run wires into the passenger compartment. The fluid is continuously heated while the vehicle is running. The unit monitors the battery voltage and heats the fluid whenever the battery voltage is above 13 volts. This allows the drive to spray hot fluid on demand every time the factory wash switch is activated. The recommend operation is to spray 3-4 seconds and than wait 20 seconds before spraying another 3-4 seconds and so on. This basically simulates what your Escalade does automatically.

    Both units have the same size heating chambers. The At-38OD would mount easily in your Escalade in your factory bracket. It is strictly be a personal preference as to what unit you would like to have in your vehicle.

    You can use any information you would like to on your forum.

    I hope we addressed your questions. Please contact us if any others arise.

    The AlphaTherm Support Team.

  4. #49
    WaterKing is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: UPDATE ON FIRE Recall for Heated Wipers

    I personally wish I could use ewill3rd as my technician/dealership. He provides information and shows his support and interest in Cadillacs and Cadillac owners by appearing on the forum. I do not expect him to explain or justify GM corporate decisions. As he said, this heated washer thing is a minor issue and yet it seems to create a large amount of irritation in many owners myself included. It is certainly not nearly the scope of VCIM backfitting for bluetooth, Nav/XM restrictions while moving, refusal to support XM traffic upgrade, or loss of rainsense washers in 2010 vehicles or my poor local dealer.

    In retrospect for me the reaction is more of "the failure of GM corporate to provide reasonable explanations as to why or why not". Heck, if they told us the whole story rather than dictating a feature removal to a vehicle we have already bought and paid for (well maybe not totally) my reaction may have not been as intense even if I did not agree. TSB's are not meant to be explanations to the general public. So I think this is a GM pr problem and Cadillac is usually the best of the divisions in getting that right and therefore has IMO a stronger customer loyalty and that makes them more vocal when they feel ignored/slighted/underappreciated. I have not gotten a recall notice yet for any of my vehicles.

    The feature is important enough to me that I will be ordering the aftermarket item for my non dealer queen 2007 EXT and will report on installation when it is done. Thank you ewill3rd for correcting me on the wiring harness issues...it made my decision easy. I have ordered the GM specific model. If it ever gets into a dealership and they mention this recall, I will hand them the old heater with the cut off wires.

  5. #50
    lousy_investor is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: UPDATE ON FIRE Recall for Heated Wipers

    Quote Originally Posted by WaterKing View Post
    Question to Alphatherm:

    Am I correct that the 38 model keeps the fluid hot all the time and only needs power while the 37 model only heats the water when the heated washer function is activated on the dash?
    Interesting... but can anyone explain to me why we would need the 38 model that keeps the fluid hot all the time? Sounds like trouble to me if the heating element continuously gets turned on when the battery is above 13V. I would rather have the unit that heats the fluid up when I press the button on the dash. I would think that majority of the time I wouldn't need the fluid hot. I only had my Escalade since April and never seen winter in it... perhaps my opinion will change.

  6. #51
    WaterKing is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: UPDATE ON FIRE Recall for Heated Wipers

    My original rationale and the reason for the questions to the company was that maybe the 38 model had more capacity and I had a use for the switch on the interior. The 38 model keeps the fluid hot all the time the engine is running (hence 13volt threshold) so anytime you use the washer fluid it would be hot with the first wipe. To keep the fluid hot after initial heatup only requires about 2 amps per HOUR according to the manufacturer. Obviously the additional logic circuitry in the 38 makes it more expensive. But now I know I can use that model with minimal problems on my Ranchero. On the GM model you must activate the feature first on the dash so you must wait for the fluid to heat first (about 30 sec). I am lazy and impatient. Since both are the same capacity I opted for laziness in installation vice operation and will impatiently wait the initial 30 sec heatup time. DEAD Bug removal is my primary use and I have those crappy 2007 wipers.

  7. #52
    ewill3rd is offline Cadillac Technician
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    Re: UPDATE ON FIRE Recall for Heated Wipers

    Thanks WaterKing.
    I appreciate your kind words more than you know.

    On occasion I do get defensive and I know I shouldn't. Even though I feel GM is really screwing a few things up right now I still support them. It doesn't mean I think they are infallable, but it means that I just have to work harder to help my customers out.
    I don't know the rationale behind this decision, but I do know that all the engineers and corporate people that I have dealt with over the years were honest hardworking people just like you and me. I find that society under the guidance of the media have become corporation haters. It is easy to villify people you don't know who make decisions to keep their company alive and profitable. The days of killing people for profit and walking on the backs of the workers is pretty much over even though some people would have you think they are still alive and well. I am sure that is a subject for debate, but I'm not looking for that argument either.

    As should be painfully clear, I try to present the facts as I know them, I may interject an opinion but I try to call it out as such. I believe that everyone is entitled to an opinion, even if it is wrong, and just because it doesn't agree with what I think doesn't necessarily mean one is right or the other is wrong, it just means our opinions differ.
    I often find not many people think that way.

    There should be some aftermarket options out there now that people have "tasted" this feature so you guys that want it don't lose hope. But in MY OPINION, I don't think even a slim chance that this system could melt down and lead to a fire is worth ANY risk to anyone. It just isn't that hard to work around it, plus you get $100!!
    (peanuts to most Cadi owners I am sure)


    Anyway, if anyone has serious questions about this I'll be more than happy to answer.
    If someone wants to complain about removal of this feature that's cool too, I know it is irritating, I just don't want to be drawn in as a witness for the defendant.

  8. #53
    K9Caddy is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: UPDATE ON FIRE Recall for Heated Wipers

    Quote Originally Posted by ewill3rd View Post
    Be mad in one hand and spit in the other, let me know which one fills up faster.

    My point is, I didn't make this decision, GM did.
    If you guys want to be mad about that and complain please feel free.
    I am not defending their position, although at times I can see it might seem like it. I am just saying it is what it is.
    The sun rises in the East and sets in the West, and GM has decided to remove this feature for whatever reason. Speculate all you want.
    Maybe they approached the new company for a solution and they told GM to get bent?
    Maybe a company that is recovering from bankruptcy has opted to do this to help save money?
    I don't know (nor does anyone else on here) and frankly, I don't really care.

    If you want to keep this feature on your car just don't ever take it to a dealer again and you won't have to worry about it.
    That's about the only REAL solution I see here.
    Not mad at all... I actually have an '09 in which didn't have the feature in the first place. I have other issues with the truck, but that's a whole other story.

    I don't care what excuse GM has, it's BS regardless. I don't care what you believe the excuse is either. Didn't ask.

    I'm stating my opinion and I'm sorry you don't agree. That is all. Thank you and have a wonderful day!

  9. #54
    Ronin is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: UPDATE ON FIRE Recall for Heated Wipers

    WaterKing beat me to it, but ewill3rd is unquestionably a valuable asset to this forum and the Cadillac owners here. It wasn't my intent to "kill the messenger" so to speak, he's simply passing along first hand and first rate information about this particular situation. It's my opinion, and shared by others, that it stinks, but I wouldn't want ewill3rd to stop doing what he's doing and helping us out because we all pigpiled on him when he told us something we didn't want to hear...

  10. #55
    petercoolz is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: UPDATE ON FIRE Recall for Heated Wipers

    Is anybody ordering the AlphaTherm replacement module? I was wondering how the installation procedure was.

    Unfortunately, I also need to go to the dealer soon too. Are they going to still try to disable everything?

  11. #56
    ewill3rd is offline Cadillac Technician
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    Re: UPDATE ON FIRE Recall for Heated Wipers

    Thanks Ronin.

    Don't worry, I have been beaten on in a few internet arguments before and still come back.
    I don't think anyone was attacking me, I will admit I got a little defensive.
    I'm not going anywhere. I try to help whenever I can, the demands on my time are pretty intense lately but I usually take an hour or so each day to come on here and answer questions that I feel need my input. It isn't quite as much as I used to do.
    I click "new posts" and read the message headers and look at ones that pique my interest.

    I usually visit recall topics because they are usually surrounded by a lot of misinformation.

    I am also curious as to whether or not anyone will do the alpha therm solution and whether it will be a plug and play solution, etc.
    I'd love for someone to post it if they do it.

  12. #57
    WaterKing is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: UPDATE ON FIRE Recall for Heated Wipers

    As I said I have already ordered the GM model and will report on installation and operation when it arrives and I get it installed. Similar to K9Caddy I have issues with GM about update policies and my other EXT but that is mostly dealer idiocy and my geographic area makes it MOST difficult to go to another. The 38 model sounds perfect to put on vehicles that do not have this feature originally.

    I did get a recall notice today and it does provide some explanation and alternatives if you have previously repaired the issue or have other questions. So my earlier reaction was slightly excessive by itself but understandable personally because it is additive to my other aggravations. IMO, GM engineers, assembly workers, and support people don't make decisions of this magnitude and have little impact on the final outcome. I think the Legal and financial teams provide inputs to the Corporate execs who make the final determination and often that is heavily influenced by the bottom line of company at that moment and for the future. After all, this is potentially a $350,000,000.00 customer payout (3.5M vehicles, I think) plus the amount GM must reimburse the dealers for the removal and all the administrative costs. How much of this is being driven by the NHTSA edicts? Don't attack me, I am not trying to defend GM but I know if I was responsible for their pocketbook I would not want to do this unless forced. But at my end it is still a grrr.

    Now if someone can tell me how to bend or reform the washer fluid holding tank 1/2" to the front so it clears the sweep of my left front tire I would be most happy. I might have to remove it entirely and just carry a squirt bottle. How ironic that would be.

  13. #58
    ewill3rd is offline Cadillac Technician
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    Re: UPDATE ON FIRE Recall for Heated Wipers

    I think it is 1.5 million units.

    I agree that this decision was made by the bean counters and GM legal. Never claimed it was "fair". I think we all understand eachother at this point.
    I don't mind the complaining per se, but I sometimes allow myself to become defensive as I often feel like some people are coming after me even when they may not be, for that I can only blame myself.

    Do you have oversized tires or something?

  14. #59
    WaterKing is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: UPDATE ON FIRE Recall for Heated Wipers

    24" Bazo Miami's with 305/45R24 FALKEN ZIEX S/TZ 04 = 36" diameter = rub with GF 2.5/3 front spindle/rear spring drop kit with 9.5 rear assembly. That's my last rub issue to resolve. Kinda fills the wells.....DO NOT ask how I got to this point, it was dumb. The mismatch color is because I put the platinum front fascia I removed from the 2008 EXT because the dealer would not address the wind noise while it was on the 2008 i.e not the way it came from GM (he was the dealer that painted it and put it on). Won't repaint until everything is sorted out. Hence my dealer animosity and the reason for this no dealer touchy 2007. Also liked the custom candy apple metallic color, fades to silver metalflake on top. Lower front fascia braces have already been modifiied...Don't consider the wheel well liners a problem since I have a heat gun.
    Attached Images

  15. #60
    SouthernLCC is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: UPDATE ON FIRE Recall for Heated Wipers

    Quote Originally Posted by WaterKing View Post
    Question to Alphatherm:

    I have a 2008 Escalade EXT and am considering getting your AT-37GM or AT-38OD. Am I correct that the 38 model keeps the fluid hot all the time and only needs power while the 37 model only heats the water when the heated washer function is activated on the dash? Can I use the 38 model without mounting issues? Do both models have the same heating capacity? Can I provide your answers on the Cadillac owner's forum? Thank you in advance, Alan



    Reply from Alphatherm:

    Your operation description is correct for both units.

    The At-38OD was developed for easy after market installation. The unit only connects to the battery and there is no need to run wires into the passenger compartment. The fluid is continuously heated while the vehicle is running. The unit monitors the battery voltage and heats the fluid whenever the battery voltage is above 13 volts. This allows the drive to spray hot fluid on demand every time the factory wash switch is activated. The recommend operation is to spray 3-4 seconds and than wait 20 seconds before spraying another 3-4 seconds and so on. This basically simulates what your Escalade does automatically.

    Both units have the same size heating chambers. The At-38OD would mount easily in your Escalade in your factory bracket. It is strictly be a personal preference as to what unit you would like to have in your vehicle.

    You can use any information you would like to on your forum.

    I hope we addressed your questions. Please contact us if any others arise.

    The AlphaTherm Support Team.
    What I don't understand is if you get the GM replacement model, does it utilize the button that is already on the center console to engage the system?

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