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Cadillac ELR Forum Discussion, off to bad rep all ready? in Current Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Originally Posted by Top_Speed1 BS, prove it. Let me see your Volt stats. Maybe if your a car wash boy ...
  1. #16
    0AT E03 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: off to bad rep all ready?

    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Speed1 View Post
    BS, prove it. Let me see your Volt stats. Maybe if your a car wash boy or something then I would believe this crap and then getting in and moving it doesn't count for (green) beans lol. And besides time in the car is what counts. My Volt is no different than the other 10 you claim to have driven as far as base characteristics go. Don't even try to challenge me on this techie vehicle as you will lose so badly.

    The Volt is truely an awesome car. Sure it can be improved. Name ONE car that can't you dimwit. Your conversations have no creditability whatsoever (I like the statement where you claim I think it's a "Miracle") Man are you out there or what?. Where did you come from, Mars? PLEASE Go Back there!
    You clearly don't grasp the reality of how cars are designed and built. You're a fan boy. End of story. You hurt the Volt more than you help it. I hope you know that.

  2. #17
    Top_Speed1's Avatar
    Top_Speed1 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: off to bad rep all ready?

    Way to backup your words. It's exactly what I thought. Have a good life!

    Now back to some ELR thoughts.
    We all hope they improve on some things and with the latest Voltec 1.5 it will be improved. How much? I agree with a poster above; it will be very minimal but every step forward with this technology is a good thing. I definitely expect a higher quality ride/shock package that Cadillac is famous for. The skin alone of the ELR will not justify the upwards of $10K or more (over the Volts $).

  3. #18
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    Re: off to bad rep all ready?

    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Speed1 View Post
    BS, prove it. Let me see your Volt stats. Maybe if your a car wash boy or something then I would believe this crap and then getting in and moving it doesn't count for (green) beans lol. And besides time in the car is what counts. My Volt is no different than the other 10 you claim to have driven as far as base characteristics go. Don't even try to challenge me on this techie vehicle as you will lose so badly.

    The Volt is truely an awesome car. Sure it can be improved. Name ONE car that can't you dimwit. Your conversations have no creditability whatsoever (I like the statement where you claim I think it's a "Miracle") Man are you out there or what?. Where did you come from, Mars? PLEASE Go Back there!
    How about turn down the ad hominem a bit? 0AT E03 works, in some capacity, with GM when it comes to making new vehicles. Clearly the man knows his stuff. If you peruse the ATS forum, you can see that all of his "predictions" have come to pass (because, well, they're not predictions - they're genuine information).


    Goodness, let's try and keep this civil.

  4. #19
    Top_Speed1's Avatar
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    Re: off to bad rep all ready?

    It's back down to earth. He hasn't given one iota of credibility to what he has said in this thread. Maybe he does know his "stuff" (elsewhere) but clearly here he was out there with no substantial input or help . I just wanted him to back up just one thing up he said i.e. where he got this that I said the Volt was a 'Miracle'. Again his words, not mine. I didn't put any words quoted to him that were false but that's OK. Done with it

    This ELR forum (dir) is about the ELR and it's voltec technology.

  5. #20
    0AT E03 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: off to bad rep all ready?

    You'd probably jump on me when I say it's a miracle a normal vehicle rolls off the line and actually starts. (It is, I'll have you know)

    The complex engineering that is required, not to mention the logistics of putting the actual car together is quite extraordinary. Add into the fact that for the Volt the drivetrain is a brand new technology and yet has no discernible difference to the end user (from the fact that is starts, drives, and acts just like any other car) is a miracle.

    I don't use the word miracle like in the biblical sense, I use it in the fact that "Wow, this shit actually works like it is suppose to!" Engineers are allowed to be surprised you know. That is unless you think that all this technology development was normal and just happened and that it didn't involve tons and tons of brain power and development time. If that's the case I've got a 100 MPG carburetor to sell you.

    What pisses me off to no end are people who think about things in black and white, and a lot of early adopters are like that either you totally embrace the technology and ignore all it's faults and issues or you are labeled a heathen. The Prius had those people, the Volt does too. Those people do no help, and in fact they turn off the normal person as why on earth would I want to be associated with a nut bar.

    Sorry to be mean about it, but that's what this has degenerated to, you guys are rabid on this and missed the point entirely of my original post. You also missed the point of what Marketing is. Therefore it is impossible to speak with you because of your fanboyism you lack the reason and objectivity to have a decent discussion. It's either your way or the highway. I'm one for the highway, as I don't deal with crazy people I don't have to.

  6. #21
    Sharkvolt is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: off to bad rep all ready?

    I think you are making the same judgement that numerous Chevy engineers did. When they were told to make the Volt ALL electric for the first 35 miles, they kept insisting that the Volt could be more efficient with Hybrid design rather than all electric. Lutz rejected this and insisted that it run ONLY on electric for the battery use, like the Leaf. And he also required that the ICE engine run a reduced RPMs ato keep it quieter, and less obtrusive than the Prius and other hybrids. Yes, it gets poorer mileage than a Prius, but that wasn't the goal, and the engineers built what he asked for.

    Those of us who bought the Volt like it for what it became, the quietest, smoothest driving car made in the USA. The Prius is a noisy clattertrap of a car compared to the Volt. I doubt you would really want the ELR to be that noisy either. Right?

  7. #22
    Top_Speed1's Avatar
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    Re: off to bad rep all ready?

    LS2 - we dropped it. The Volt's main entre is the battery propulsion and as you said; go from point A - B (and to C & D as another Volt owner chimed in w) Works for me and many others perfectly. I'm sure the car didn't win all the awards for nothing and I never once read a creditable review that thought the gas mileage was "poor". Yes, it can be better (but as I mentioned earlier) what can't? I hope the ELR is improved on every facet, that would be a 'miracle' (and yes I see how you are using that word, thanks for updating).

    The range extender (gas mode - generator) is not hardly even used by a lot of Volt owners. I am an active member on www.gm-volt.com and all the time I hear of folks going (even a year) without using any gas period. So they most likely could care less if the 1.4L genset gets 35 or 45. I however do care as I use both. There is a very knowledgeable gentleman on gm-volt.com (DCFusor) who knows quite a bit about E-Powerd devices and he swears the 1.4L genset is one of the most efficient gasoline powered generators on the planet. OK, Yes still room for improvement is what you will say and I will totally agree.

    My CTS gets maybe 20mpg combined C/H. Right now my Volt gets 40.7 in gas mode combined C/H. OK, you can see why I'm saying the gas mileage is pretty good especially for a heavy car with a nice ride. Yes, it's neck and neck w my CTS as far as ride and comfort goes and I think that says a lot! (I really like my CTS, don't take this wrongly but I will put it up on the sales block this spring as the Volt has taken over as the car my entire family wants to drive).

    The Volt is not the best thing since sliced bread (however there are a few Volters who will argue w me about that!). Straight fuel wise I would have purchased the Jetta TDI over the Prius b/c the Prius is just dang chintzy (arguably the price is right for a 50+mpg vehicle!). Going true green? Any All-Electrics (BV's) are great for those owners who can use that limited range daily or depend on charging stations. I personally cannot so I require a car with a gas (or diesel) genset to make some KW's when I do make an infrequent road trip. When I do, if I dropped down to lets say 35mpg I would be happy at this point in time with what's out there comparably speaking (and for as little as I will use in 'CS' gas mode).

    Now the real pride with the Volt (or upcoming ELR) is in using good ole American electrons!
    I pay .042 KW/hr nite rate to charge. OK, with all the BS taxes, line charges, drop charges etc. I take the entire electric bill and divide cost to KW and it comes out to .11 cents a Kwh (true del'd end cost). I drive 8 miles to work on less than 1.7KW that's less than .20 cents! Just starting my CTS in the garage uses way more $ than that. Yes, the Volt is awesome but not a Miracle. Maybe with improvements in the ELR (voltec 1.5) It can even be better which everybody is hoping for of course.

    I don't really expect anybody who drives daily on Arab oil to get this feeling unless they drive on American electrons daily like (we EV, BVers) do. It's a great feeling that I can't describe but I'm actually quite proud of it, it's kinda weird/awkward to describe, other EVers will know what I'm talking about. I see all the mega buildings going up in Dubai and I'm just tired of being a contributor. Heck there so bored with our money they now are building buildings crooked (not plumb) on purpose. I say screw those towel heads, I want to start keeping some of that money here in the good old US of A!

    I'm PRO- VOLT, ELR, JAG X75 or anything else that uses AC to DC and has a range extender but I'm also a big FAN of any BV's and anything else that makes sen$e so we don't have to see anymore skyscrapers from the Emirates touching the frigging moon!

    TS -out!

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVhybrid

    Thanks for the reply. I'm glad you think the Volt is good for getting from A to B. Why just today I used my Volt to get from A (home) to B (work), and then to C (a UPS store), and D (a Subway sandwich store), then back to B (work) and then at the end of the day, back to A (home), altogether about 20 miles, while using about 60 cents worth of electricity.

    But I disagree with your assessment of fuel efficiency, because I know that a car that gets better than 100 MPG is VERY GOOD. In fact, it is better than any other gasoline power car in the world.

    Agreed that CS mileage alone isn't the best mileage available. But please, name a car that gets, say, as good, or even better fuel efficiency than Volt CS mode and that also performs as well, handles as well, and runs as quietly as the Volt in CD mode.

    The Volt isn't about the CS mileage alone. It is about the CD & CS mileage without the range anxiety. When you are driving CD, soldiers don't have to fight to bring home your oil, sailors don't have to guard the Straits of Hormuz for you, and pilots don't have drop bombs to protect oil production you need. This technology is a game changer that GM has pulled off better than anyone else. Today our country spends more than one billion dollars a day on imported crude oil. Moving away from oil is a matter of national defense and national economy. Avoiding imported oil while listening to BB King on XM radio turned up high and sitting in my leather driver's seat with the heat turned to medium is priceless.

    In summary, I don't believe that to put down a car that averages more than 100 MPG because it ONLY gets 37 MPG for a fraction of usage is a credible argument. A credible argument would look at the entire picture, and not single out a perceived flaw that, when looked at in the whole, is not a flaw.

    WVhybrid
    Alright, you sound like a democrat. Go on and on about foreign oil but I'm sick of hearing it. If the Middle East oil went away, we'd pay more. But we'd still get oil.

    ----------

    That being said, I love the Volt for the dual ability no one else has. An electric vehicle that you don't need to worry about. Places like Boston are offering discounted parking with charging ports for electric cars.

    To think you can have a Volt and commute from any distance and pay pennies for the use could actually make the cost of the car well worth it...

  9. #24
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    Re: off to bad rep all ready?

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigjimsho View Post
    Alright, you sound like a democrat. Go on and on about foreign oil but I'm sick of hearing it. If the Middle East oil went away, we'd pay more. But we'd still get oil.
    Since when is complaining about foreign oil a Democratic talking point? I hear lots of Republicans stating that they'd be happiest if all of our oil came from the U.S., Canada, and Latin America and none came from Saudi Arabia, Iraq, etc. When I think about buying the ELR (if I don't grab a 2013 Volt first), I get very excited about driving an American car running on American electricity with only the occasional drink of (possibly) foreign-produced fuel (refined in the USA, though). And since my house has solar panels leased from Solar City, I won't even really be charging the car with much U.S. electricity, but rather with interstellar energy! lol

    I hope the ELR gets the same incentives as the Volt currently gets here in California: $7,500 tax credit (assuming you pay enough taxes in the first place), $1,500 California rebate, free 240v charging unit in the garage, special low rates from LADWP for charging an EV at night (and no rates at all when I charge during the day since I have solar), plus access to the carpool lane through December 31, 2014 (which I hope is extended for the ELR to at least 2016).

    The Volt got off to a bad start because of (i) the self-defeating, illogical, spiteful Republican war against fuel-efficient vehicles that happened to be produced by a company bailed out by the government using taxpayer dollars, (ii) bad TV ads, if you saw any advertising at all, (iii) bad communication to the press explaining how the car really worked - especially that it was an 100% electric car with a gas range extender, not a gas/electric hybrid like the Prius, and (iv) the perception that the car was overpriced - $45,000 for a fully-loaded model and you don't even get power-adjusted seats and steering wheel w/memory or power-folding side mirrors? (Seriously? That complaint was probably right...)

    I truly don't understand why the Volt hasn't been hailed by all political ideologies as the future of transportation in the U.S. - it's made in America, fueled by American electricity, responsible for thousands of new American jobs, and starts America on the path to energy independence from Middle East dictators, warlords, nutjobs, and extremists.

    While I didn't agree with the U.S. bailing out banks or auto companies (and still fundamentally don't), at least the end result for GM was the Volt and not the Hummer 4! The banks may have screwed the country, taking their bailout and refusing to lend it back out - thereby completing the destruction of the U.S. housing market; but the car companies retooled and came out with new products that will make this country better and have shown that American innovation and excellence are back.

    BTW, my friend gets 250+ mpg on his Volt. If he calculates it out, he claims to get 743 mpg driving about 15,000 miles annually, and not always just 35 miles per day/charge but also long road trips with his wife and daughter. Let's hope the ELR will be at least that good.

  10. #25
    gmarcucio is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: off to bad rep all ready?

    I too own a Volt and absolutely love the Volt. I also own a 2008 Corvette convertible and when the ELR arrives I'm selling the vette to purchase the ELR that's how much I love the Volt. BTW my Vette gets 24.1 MPG city.

    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Speed1 View Post
    [First post to forum}
    Hello!

    I own a Caddy CTS and back in Sept purchased a '12 Chevy Volt. The CTS is going up on the selling block now that I'm hooked on the Voltec technology (I was keeping the CTS as a backup if I didn't like the Volt, which I absolutely love btw!). My plan is to purchase a Caddy ELR when available and hand down my Volt to my g/f who currently has a BMW with terrible shift points. Now driving the Volt I cannot deal with any lag in the shift points so yes I'm spoiled beyond any car except what Cadillac can bring me in an ELR on the Voltec platform.

    The public eye in perceiving this car may be down the road a bit but every owner of the Volt (on www.gm-volt.com) where I'm an active member would not give it up his/her Volt for anything. I love the Cadillac ride, image etc. and when I first saw the ELR (now named) I was in awe and wanted one then and still do now.

    One step up drivetrain wise maybe would be to implement the 1.4L in a turbo version (like the Cruise Eco uses).

  11. #26
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    I just was on the Tesla website and they have 3 choices of battery options with one that has over 300 mile range !! I love volt and ELR is a most but if Tesla can get 300 plus with no gas engine the Volt and ELR should get at least 100 miles.

  12. #27
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    Re: Tesla vs Volt and ELR

    Quote Originally Posted by DG2 View Post
    I just was on the Tesla website and they have 3 choices of battery options with one that has over 300 mile range !! I love volt and ELR is a most but if Tesla can get 300 plus with no gas engine the Volt and ELR should get at least 100 miles.
    The base Tesla model with the 85kW battery that goes 265 miles (not 300, per the EPA, despite Tesla's marketing) costs $77,400 minus the Federal $7,500 credit. Add in all the options like the Technology Package, Sound Studio Package, Active Air Suspension, etc., it's $89,000. But select the Performance version of the 85kW car with all options and you'll be paying $102,500. Also, once the Tesla runs out of juice, your only two choices are to charge it for at least 4 four hours, or if you're lucky you'll find a quick-charge station and "fill up" in 30 minutes.

    The Volt costs - at most - $46,000 minus the $7,500 Federal credit, and the Volt just needs a tank of gas to keep going forever. The ELR should operate the same (but I assume will be more expensive), although I agree with you that it would be a huge (and probably necessary) sales advantage if the ELR had more electric range.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blastphemy

    The base Tesla model with the 85kW battery that goes 265 miles (not 300, per the EPA, despite Tesla's marketing) costs $77,400 minus the Federal $7,500 credit. Add in all the options like the Technology Package, Sound Studio Package, Active Air Suspension, etc., it's $89,000. But select the Performance version of the 85kW car with all options and you'll be paying $102,500. Also, once the Tesla runs out of juice, your only two choices are to charge it for at least 4 four hours, or if you're lucky you'll find a quick-charge station and "fill up" in 30 minutes.

    The Volt costs - at most - $46,000 minus the $7,500 Federal credit, and the Volt just needs a tank of gas to keep going forever. The ELR should operate the same (but I assume will be more expensive), although I agree with you that it would be a huge (and probably necessary) sales advantage if the ELR had more electric range.
    If the technology is there (and it is) then GM must modify the battery packs for the ELR to at least get 100 electric miles. Otherwise , fir the $65000 ELR I would buy. $70,000 Tesla.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blastphemy

    The base Tesla model with the 85kW battery that goes 265 miles (not 300, per the EPA, despite Tesla's marketing) costs $77,400 minus the Federal $7,500 credit. Add in all the options like the Technology Package, Sound Studio Package, Active Air Suspension, etc., it's $89,000. But select the Performance version of the 85kW car with all options and you'll be paying $102,500. Also, once the Tesla runs out of juice, your only two choices are to charge it for at least 4 four hours, or if you're lucky you'll find a quick-charge station and "fill up" in 30 minutes.

    The Volt costs - at most - $46,000 minus the $7,500 Federal credit, and the Volt just needs a tank of gas to keep going forever. The ELR should operate the same (but I assume will be more expensive), although I agree with you that it would be a huge (and probably necessary) sales advantage if the ELR had more electric range.
    If the technology is there (and it is) then GM must modify the battery packs for the ELR to at least get 100 electric miles. Otherwise , fir the $65000 ELR I would buy. $70,000 Tesla.

  15. #30
    Blastphemy is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Tesla vs Volt and ELR

    Quote Originally Posted by DG2 View Post
    If the technology is there (and it is) then GM must modify the battery packs for the ELR to at least get 100 electric miles. Otherwise , fir the $65000 ELR I would buy. $70,000 Tesla.
    The ELR had better be pretty damned good to cost $65,000! If it's just going to be a stylized Volt with more comfortable seats and a heads-up display, I can't imagine Cadillac would charge a $20,000 premium.

    Those Tesla cars are very nice, but they're considered "Premium" cars and not "Luxury" cars. (Tesla keeps stressing that on conference calls to explain the missing features.) There are some basic creature comforts missing from even the very high-end Model S cars. It's the reason I chose not to put down a deposit. No adaptive cruise control? No cup holders in the back seat? No heads-up display? No blind-spot warning? If Buick can do it for $34,000, Tesla has no excuse for dropping the ball at $77,400+.

    The 17-inch Telsa touch pad is very nice, but the XTS, ATS, and SRX all have haptic feedback displays and Tesla doesn't, and I'd argue the CUE system is a very strong competitor against Tesla's interactive tech. Granted, CUE doesn't have seven years of free map updates, nor do I think it has a fully functioning browser, but I still think CUE is just as strong an interface. Also, the ELR will have On*Star while Tesla doesn't.

    Hopefully the ELR gets at least 100 electric miles to make you happy, but even if it only gets 40, I'd still buy the ELR over a closely-priced Tesla. It'd be worth it to me to completely avoid range anxiety. And even if there was already a huge network of chargers in place, I'd rather take 5 minutes to fill up my ELR's "range extender" tank instead of 4 hours to charge my Tesla. (Only the high-end Teslas have the super-fast charger that can "fill" the car in 30 minutes at the right kind of station.)

    EDIT: This Bloomberg article claims the ELR will be priced at less than $57,400. With the $7,500 Federal tax credit, that would be $49,900 before taxes and any drive-off fees.

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