Says Detroit News: DTS is a hit, miss
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Cadillac DTS Forum - 2006 through 2012 Discussion, Says Detroit News: DTS is a hit, miss in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Cadillac DTS is a hit, miss '06 version loaded with lots of special high-tech toys Anita and Paul Lienert / ...
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    ussyorktown is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Says Detroit News: DTS is a hit, miss

    Cadillac DTS is a hit, miss
    '06 version loaded with lots of special high-tech toys
    Anita and Paul Lienert / Special to the Detroit News


    2006 Cadillac DTS Performance Sedan
    Type:Front-engine, front-wheel drive, five-passenger sedan.
    Price:Base, $50,490 (inc. $795 destination charge); as tested, $53,925.
    Engine:4.6-liter V-8; 291-hp; 286 lb-ft torque.
    EPA fuel economy:17 mpg city/24 mpg highway.
    Where built:Detroit
    Key competitors:BMW 7 Series, Buick Lucerne, Chrysler 300C, Infiniti Q45, Jaguar XJ8, Lexus LS 430, Lincoln Town Car, Mercedes-Benz S Class, Mercury Grand Marquis
    12-month insurance cost, according to AAA Michigan*: $1,596 (Estimate. Rates may be higher or lower, depending on coverage and driving record.) Vehicle ratings
    Anita: 5
    Likes:Good ride quality -- not floaty. You can order an optional front bench seat. Conservative, yet appealing cabin. Gobs of high-tech features. Remote start automatically adjusts cabin temp. Attractive gauges. Six standard air bags
    Dislikes: Special paint costs extra. Automatic transmission has only four speeds, when many luxury competitors offer six and seven.
    No adjustable pedals. Fuel economy isn't great.
    Paul: 3
    Likes:Traditional domestic buyers will find DTS familiar and comfortable. Adequate power from 4.6L V-8. Enormous trunk. Performance model comes with additional high-tech safety features. Firm, but compliant ride.
    Dislikes:Oversized Detroit luxury car looks and feels like an anachronism next to most premium competitors from Europe and Asia. Fancy power massaging front seats surprisingly uncomfortable, lacking sufficient thigh and lumbar support. Brakes not progressive, requiring heavy application of pressure toward end of pedal travel. Interior lacks personality. Most Boomers used to driving luxury imports won't give this a second look.
    Rating system
    1. Unacceptable, 2. Subpar, 3. Acceptable, 4. Above Average,
    5. World Class



    We sampled the 2006 Cadillac DTS, which replaces the old DeVille, for a day last summer and then got back into it for a week in November for a much longer look.
    The front-wheel-drive DTS takes its name from the high-performance model in the old DeVille lineup, and carries over the basic mechanical architecture of its predecessor, with all-new sheet metal and a brand-new interior.
    We tested a top-of-the-line DTS Performance Sedan with a base price of $50,490, including a $795 destination charge. Our test car had several options, including a $1,795 DVD navigation system, 18-inch chrome wheels, and $350 power rear sunshade. Bottom line: $53,925.
    HE: For lots of older folks, the big Cadillac sedan formerly known as the DeVille is still a favorite. For many other consumers, the DTS may seem like little more than a hollow status symbol. Boomers in their forties and fifties who've driven German or Japanese luxury sedans will find it hard to relate to this Cadillac. It's still a classic oversized and overstuffed made-in-Detroit luxury car that looks and feels like an anachronism next to most premium competitors from Europe and Asia.
    SHE: I don't see how you can characterize the DTS like that when Cadillac made it a point to load this car up with lots of high-tech features, from adaptive remote start that automatically adjusts the temperature in the cabin -- even when you're still in your house -- to new ultrasonic front park assist that helps you when you're parallel parking. Sheesh. The way you talk, it sounds like there's a standard walker in the trunk. But in reality, the Cadillac flagship sedan is updated. Conservative, yes, but a bit fresher, too.
    HE: There are plenty of cars on the market that offer more advanced technology, better performance, a smoother ride and more safety equipment for less money. It just seems like Cadillac is caught in that classic squeeze -- trying to broaden its appeal to younger buyers while trying not to alienate the traditionalists. The problem is that older market is rapidly dwindling. And Cadillac hasn't done enough to make the DTS more attractive to non-Cadillac owners. Take a good look. The cabin is certainly plush and roomy, but it lacks a distinctive personality. On the DTS Performance Sedan, you get the fancy massaging seats -- but we found them uncomfortable on longer journeys, and lacking sufficient thigh and lumbar support. I actually ached when I got out of the car after a 50-mile ride one evening.
    SHE: You sound like a candidate for BenGay. Granted, I would have been a bit happier had the DTS been equipped with something other than that four-speed automatic transmission when so many other competitors are offering six- and seven-speed automatics. That probably would have boosted the EPA fuel economy numbers above 17 mpg in city driving and 24 mpg on the highway.There are other puzzling omissions. The DTS had six standard air bags, but no adjustable pedals. But Cadillac still offers an optional front bench seat, which you can no longer get in cars like the Toyota Avalon. So it's not all grim news -- and for the audience, it may still be the perfect fit.
    HE: If you're over the age of 60 and used to work in the domestic auto industry, the DTS may be the politically correct ride, but that doesn't make it the best choice. Cadillac has managed to upgrade the ride quality, but it's still a chore to park this big boy. And I'm puzzled by the brakes, which require an extra effort on the pedal to bring the car to a full stop in a reasonable distance. I still have trouble feeling the pavement through the steering, which seems too isolated compared with many of the imports. There isn't a lot of muscle under the hood, either. The DTS Performance Sedan gets a tiny bit extra juice from Cadillac's workhorse 4.6-liter V-8, which has been massaged to deliver 291 horsepower. But we tested a Lexus IS 350 last week with a much smaller, 3.5-liter V-6 engine that makes 306 horsepower--and cost $9,000 less.
    SHE:The DTS crowd won't look twice at that mid-size Lexus. For the money, Cadillac hit the target dead-center

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    thu
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    Re: Says Detroit News: DTS is a hit, miss

    I just got done driving a new DTS 302 miles for two days (it had 1398 miles when I picked it up, 1700 when I turned it back in). Driving at 80-85 MPH, the engine turns about 2100 RPM and averaged 21 MPG over a 3/4ths tank of gas of regular unleaded. This is two points worse than my 2003 STS. Driving was 75% highway at 80 to 85 MPH and 25% city between 30 and 55 MPH. Outside temp during the drive was about 55*F during the day, 45*F during the evenings.

    Acceleration is acceptable, but nothing like my Seville STS. Leg room in back seat is excellent; front head room is excellent, too. Seats are OK. Stereo is also 'acceptable' for a factory radio, with 24-station presets (AM and FM presets are mixed together), and comes with an MP3 jack to plug in your iPod. Presumably, the iPod can be controlled from the steering wheel switches.

    Plus, you can shut off the Dorky Running Lights (DRLs) with the flick of a knob as in the '06 HHR. Headlamps (BOTH high and low beams) are Xenon HIDs. I don't know if that is standard equipment or not. Tail and backup lamps are LEDs. The backup lamps don't provide enough light for backing up when it's pitch black outside.

    One thing I noticed immediately is that the 2006 DTS has more wind noise than my 2003 Seville with a sunroof. Noise in the DTS came mainly from the top of the windshield and the A-pillar. This may be due to the fact that although the DTS is a larger car, it weighs a bit less than the Seville (4050 lbs vs 4000 lbs). Thus, structure may not be as rigid nor as sound-deadening as the older Seville. I found this also to be a problem on my 1993 Deville as well - it was very wind- and road-noisy; the 2006 DTS is much better than the 1993 in that regard. In fact, the wind noise in the '06 DTS isn't bad at all, it's just more than in the '03 Seville.

    Ride is very good thanks to the Magnetic Ride Control; firm with a mere hint of the classic Caddy ride. Perhaps this was intentional. The car feels and handles lighter than its two-ton curb weight.

    Another interesting feature are the high-beam portion of the HIDs. In other cars with Xenon headlamps, only the low beams are HIDs; the high beams are conventional halogen filaments. In the DTS, they seem to be a mechanical setup from the existing HIDs for the low beams. I didn't look inside the head lights to see exactly how this is accomplished, but when turning on the highbeams, another set of lamps don't fire up. Rather, a 'curtain' unleashes the highbeams. Going back to low-beams causes the 'curtain' to lower, cutting off the light to the highbeam lenses. You can see it easily when the car is facing a wall. You can see the curtain raise and lower. You can also hear it from the inside when the car is at idle or if you're outside the car, reaching in to operate the high-beam lever - you hear a light 'thunk'. This setup makes sense rather than firing up separate HID lamps whenever highbeams are called for - it takes a while for Xenons to come up to full brightness and thus can't be called upon for on-demand light when initially extinguished.

    Console shift level felt rubbery, but did its job. Top speed is 112 MPH for the example I drove. I understand a 130-MPH option (H-rated tires) is optional.

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    Re: Says Detroit News: DTS is a hit, miss

    Did he honestly just compare the Lexus IS 350 to the DTS???? He's kidding right? Those two cars are seperated by about 30 catagories of vehicles. How in the world do these people end up in that industry?
    Ok, I admit it, I'm jealous.

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    Re: Says Detroit News: DTS is a hit, miss

    I know, I get so disgusted listening to these reviewers harp on about how a traditional American luxury car, in this case, the Cadillac DTS, doesn’t begin to compare to, for example, a Ferrari Maranello in acceleration and handling, or a Range Rover in bad weather stability, or a Honda Odyssey mini-van for interior room, or a $120,000 Mercedes S class for interior materials quality, and as a result of these comparisons, the DTS is deemed to be a piece of crap.

    Then, there is always the obligatory whining that the DTS is catering to an aging, dying breed of buyer and that if Cadillac doesn’t stop making this last model that caters to that demographic, why Oh-My-God, the company is just going to fall to pieces!

    This despite the fact that Cadillac makes only this one model that isn't a modern interpretation of the luxury car and all the rest of the cars in the Cadillac lineup do cater to the younger, affluent buyer the reviewer’s claim the company is ignoring by building the DTS.

    From which other car companies are these people going to get their land yachts? Lincoln is the only one that comes to mind.

    I drive a '98 STS and an '05 CTS-V, and I love them both, but I can still appreciate the DTS for what is, and if that is the type of car a small but never-the-less existing demographic wants (which by the way, happens to be the traditional Cadillac buyer), the company would be foolish to ignore it. As far as I can see, there is no reason that Cadillac can't build cars to appeal to a variety of demographics.

  6. #5
    ussyorktown is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Says Detroit News: DTS is a hit, miss

    A local Caddy dealer is advertising the DTS saying, <b>"Its not your Daddy's Caddy."

  7. #6
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    Re: Says Detroit News: DTS is a hit, miss

    Quote Originally Posted by rodster111
    I know, I get so disgusted listening to these reviewers harp on about how a traditional American luxury car, in this case, the Cadillac DTS, doesn’t begin to compare to, for example, a Ferrari Maranello in acceleration and handling, or a Range Rover in bad weather stability, or a Honda Odyssey mini-van for interior room, or a $120,000 Mercedes S class for interior materials quality, and as a result of these comparisons, the DTS is deemed to be a piece of crap.
    Then, there is always the obligatory whining that the DTS is catering to an aging, dying breed of buyer and that if Cadillac doesn’t stop making this last model that caters to that demographic, why Oh-My-God, the company is just going to fall to pieces!
    This despite the fact that Cadillac makes only this one model that isn't a modern interpretation of the luxury car and all the rest of the cars in the Cadillac lineup do cater to the younger, affluent buyer the reviewer’s claim the company is ignoring by building the DTS.
    From which other car companies are these people going to get their land yachts? Lincoln is the only one that comes to mind.
    I drive a '98 STS and an '05 CTS-V, and I love them both, but I can still appreciate the DTS for what is, and if that is the type of car a small but never-the-less existing demographic wants (which by the way, happens to be the traditional Cadillac buyer), the company would be foolish to ignore it. As far as I can see, there is no reason that Cadillac can't build cars to appeal to a variety of demographics.
    I consider Paul and Anita Lienert's reviews fairly objectified and without alot of fluff and unnecessary bias. They are contributors to the DETROIT news after all. The points they brought up were for the most part valid to someone looking at a car in this category. And no, Paul did not compare the ENTIRE car to a Lexus IS350... he merely stated that for almost 10k less you CAN get a 306hp powerplant in YES, an ENTIRELY SMALLER category of vehicle. It doesnt have anything to do with what the vehicle is, so much as the fact that its cheaper and offers more. Anita clearly stated that it was obvious no one would cross shop an IS and a DTS.
    For the record, the European and German imports are not immune from this in their reviews either. The old 7 series and new 7 series for example, both got less than glowing reviews for plenty of reasons.

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    Re: Says Detroit News: DTS is a hit, miss

    I am a younger guy and I love the Deville / DTS. I think there is a decent amount of us young guys that do appreciate the big Cadillac. I think the biggest hurdle is to actually get them to drive it or ride in it. Almost all my friends were surprised when they rode in it. My first car was a nice big American luxury car and after a few quality problems with Lincolns I switched to foreign models ( Mercedes Benz). When it came time for another car I got a 2001 Cadillac Deville. I really missed a lot about American luxury cars. The Cadillac even fixes my any complaints I had about Lincolns in the quality department. I can be objective in saying I drove cars that cost twice the price of the Cadillac new and I actually prefer the Cadillac. The Cadillac is not only cheaper to buy but to maintain. The Benzs were bleeding me dry in maintenance. I really would miss the big Cadillacs if they ever decided not to make them.

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    Re: Says Detroit News: DTS is a hit, miss

    Quote Originally Posted by NJCadillac
    The Cadillac is not only cheaper to buy but to maintain. The Benzs were bleeding me dry in maintenance. I really would miss the big Cadillacs if they ever decided not to make them.
    EXACTLY. Foreign makes may or may not be better in reliability for the first few years, but there is no competition in terms of maintenance and repair costs.

    I suspect this is also true even for the lower-end makes such as the Camry, Taurus, etc.

    I bought a used 300SD Diesel Benz for my Dad in the mid 1990s. After a few years, I convinced him to get rid of it. I told him he was throwing money down the toilet trying to keep it on the road. He loved it and so did I, but it didn't make economic sense.

    This was one of the two primary reasons why I bought a 2003 Seville STS vs a BMW - maintenance cost and DIY feasibility. I can fix a Caddy on my own. I most likely will not be able to fix a BMW on my own. I can find a local Caddy dealer or a local garage that will work on it. Forget about it if I have a BMW or Mercedes.

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    Re: Says Detroit News: DTS is a hit, miss

    Quote Originally Posted by Playdrv4me
    he merely stated that for almost 10k less you CAN get a 306hp powerplant in YES, an ENTIRELY SMALLER category of vehicle.
    I know where you can get a car with a 400 hp powerplant for nearly $6k less than the IS350...

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    Re: Says Detroit News: DTS is a hit, miss

    Quote Originally Posted by Playdrv4me
    And no, Paul did not compare the ENTIRE car to a Lexus IS350... he merely stated that for almost 10k less you CAN get a 306hp powerplant in YES, an ENTIRELY SMALLER category of vehicle.
    The IS gets 306HP @ 6400 RPMs and 277 lbs-ft @ 4800 RPMs. Thats a V6 engine and to do those kind of numbers it certainly must eat up fuel for its sigment.

    The DTS gets either the high RPM engine (L37) with 292HP @ 6300 RPMs and 288 lbs-ft @ 4500 RPMs for the highway or the more low end grunt version (LD8) with 275HP @ 6000 RPMs and 295 lbs-ft @ 4400RPMs for the around the town user. The Deville/DTS is known for being fuel effiecient for its size and sigment.

    Torque is what gets the car moving, HP is what determines top speed. Theres more to it than that but thats the basics. My 98' Deville cruises around the 2000-2300 range for 80-85 MPH and got about 23-24 from Fort Knox, Kentucky to Buffalo, NY and ran into traffic along the way. Not bad for that big sedan.

    Now these 2 cars certainly don't weigh the same, and the DTS is FWD (IS is RWD), when you compare the DTS to other FWD cars of its size its becomes an impressive powertrain.

    Ok that was a long post to say that he shouldn't have even mentioned the IS while reviewing the FWD DTS. :P

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    ben72227 is offline Banned
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    Re: Says Detroit News: DTS is a hit, miss

    It's nothing great...I'd rather get the Buick Lucerne - just as nice, with the Northstar V8, looks MUCH better though and is about $10,000 cheaper...

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    Re: Says Detroit News: DTS is a hit, miss

    Cadillac still needs a flagship sedan. The DTS is not enough!! And STS dosnt count, as STS is in BMW 5, Mercedes E, Lexus GS territory.


    And I also dont like the sharing of so many cosmetic parts between the DTS and Lucerne (i.e., interior) A cadillac should be completly unique.

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    Re: Says Detroit News: DTS is a hit, miss

    The review was rather simple. They seemed like the responses of people who didnt know anything about cars who stopped by at a dealership for a test drive.

    She got excited over remote start. My 92 Q45 had remote start (aftermarket) with automatic climate controls. Big friggin deal. Its a $100 option thats now about a decade old and can be fitted to your grandmother's 1985 Ciera. Decade-old technology is hardly "high tech" for a flagship luxury car.
    Regarding the guy's back pain, I think he has other medical issues to deal with.

    Newspaper reviews are dumbed down for typical dropout newspaper readers, and it shows. This is the crappiest damn review I've ever read.

    Thu's review is pretty good though.

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    Re: Says Detroit News: DTS is a hit, miss

    Quote Originally Posted by ben72227
    It's nothing great...I'd rather get the Buick Lucerne - just as nice, with the Northstar V8, looks MUCH better though and is about $10,000 cheaper...
    Yep, thats what Automobile Magazine said: "Buick aims for Cadillac." They also noted that the Lucerne, while cheaper on interior materials, is a better car to drive than the Avalon.

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    Re: Says Detroit News: DTS is a hit, miss

    Im sure some people dont put Cadillac in Luxury category when compared to benz/lexus/bmw but it is american luxury and i think i will be driving a cadillac till i can afford a bmw/benz i hate toyotas.Cadillac is the top of american luxury no other car maker makes anything better espeically for the price and also once those foreign cars start expriencing problems which they will automically do you in for a big hurt when it comes to repairs. I have a friend that is a mechanic for benz and he said they break down the same amount as any other car its just way more expensive to fix them. I think i will be stick to domestic luxury unless somebody wants to give me a 760li for half price

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