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Cadillac DTS Forum - 2006 through 2012 Discussion, want to flush Dexcoool coolant in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; There's a petcock on the bottom of one of the radiator end tanks....
  1. #16
    MoistCabbage's Avatar
    MoistCabbage is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    There's a petcock on the bottom of
    one of the radiator end tanks.

  2. #17
    Ozlander is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: want to flush Dexcoool coolant

    Quote Originally Posted by 5.0 lsc View Post
    Just had my dealer do it . Im at 72k. It was only 139.99 you cant beat that
    Last year, I changed mine after 6 years. Cost me 25 bucks.

  3. #18
    MoistCabbage's Avatar
    MoistCabbage is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    It should be changed every 2 years, 3 max.

  4. #19
    Baccerman is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: want to flush Dexcoool coolant

    Not on the DTS there aint'......
    Superjim, jazoo and Tom's Caddy like this.

  5. #20
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    Re: want to flush Dexcoool coolant

    Quote Originally Posted by Baccerman View Post
    Not on the DTS there aint'......
    Right... no petcock on these...

  6. #21
    Ozlander is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: want to flush Dexcoool coolant

    Quote Originally Posted by 5.0 lsc View Post
    Just had my dealer do it . Im at 72k. It was only 139.99 you cant beat that
    I can beat that by more than 100 bucks.

  7. #22
    Stepside is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: want to flush Dexcoool coolant

    What MoistCabbage said is Correct.

    The confusion here comes from the older Green antifreeze that had silicate in it.
    The Newer style which says it is compatible with all antifreeze is a different color green and same formulation as Dex.

    BUT WAIT --> There Is A Difference . . .

    and the Answer Is .. .

    COLOR . ~

    . . . like when I take my vitamins . . -
    the pee is a different color, but the gaskets in my toilet are Fine.

    The new antifreeze is a lighter more translucent color green
    As opposed to the older darker green silicate antifreeze,
    which to my knowledge is scarce
    or not readily available in most stores.

  8. #23
    Submariner409's Avatar
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    Re: want to flush Dexcoool coolant

    ............. and to further cloud the issue, Prestone is now marketing a bright yellow long-life coolant that mixes compatibly with any coolant on the market, either here or overseas.

  9. #24
    carguyshu is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: want to flush Dexcoool coolant

    Quote Originally Posted by MoistCabbage View Post


    A shop vac, or compressed air, might get a little more out, but it's really not necessary. The only way to COMPLETELY drain the system, is to remove the coolant crossover.

    On the topic of DEX-COOL and mixing it with green coolant:

    There is absolutely NOTHING different about the aluminum, plastic, rubber, and steel components of the cooling systems or engines in GM cars, or GM gasket materials, than any other manufacturer. There is absolutely NO reason that you NEED to use DEX-COOL. Any coolant labeled for all makes/all models will do EXACTLY the same thing, and WILL NOT damage anything.

    DEX was intended to be a long life, silicate free coolant, that's all. There's nothing particularly special about it. Compare the ingredients on a bottle of DEX, to those on a bottle of "the green stuff".

    Mixing DEX with any green coolant that states it is mixable with any color coolant, WILL NOT damage anything, WILL NOT eat away at gaskets, and WILL NOT create any magical, evil "sludge".
    This is totally inaccurate and a dangerous thing to say. Read this article about how mercedes benz coolant came to be, which goes over all the various types of coolants and why you should use only MB fluid.
    Although it is an article focused mainly on MB cars and the long life fluid they have, it also goes over the other types of coolants out there and what the differences are, particularly with silicates vs not.
    http://www.mbca.org/sites/default/fi...reedec04_0.pdf

  10. #25
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    Thread's been dead for a year and a half.

    Regardless, irrelevant. There is nothong different about the pre and post DEX era Northstars, in regards to coolant type. Universal coolant works no better or worse, neither will damage anything, neither will last longer.

  11. #26
    carguyshu is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: want to flush Dexcoool coolant

    this is just not true. universal coolant, just like universal transmission fluid is a terrible idea. Read the article. Different cars have different additive package requirements. Universal fluids rarely meet the fluid spec. If it doesn't met the spec required by your car, then DONT USE IT. The reason I replied to this thread is b/c it was on a sticky post that a lot of people researching these cars for info are going to check. Telling them to use universal fluid is just bad advice and not a good idea.

  12. #27
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    Additive packages and types of hydraulic fluids used throughout a vehicle are much more complex and specific than coolant. Comparing the two is ridiculous. Let me repeat this yet again.

    Pre '96 Northstars used..... wait for it...... Green universal coolant. In '96, GM introduced DEX. No part of the engine that Contacts coolant was changed/redesigned when this coolant was introduced, therefore the coolant requirement did not change. The only thing that changed was the coolant poured in at the factory, and the words typed in the owners manual. The engines don't know what year they were manufactured.

    There are many, many, MANY post DEX cars running universal coolant without issue. If you can find one single instance in which using universal coolant in a '96 Northstar was directly related to a cooling system failure, please post it. Otherwise, please stop continuing the paranoia.

  13. #28
    carguyshu is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: want to flush Dexcoool coolant

    it is not ridiculous at all. just read the article.

    "Note: some anti-freeze suppliers claim their products meet specifications of all manufacturers, and provide a long list of manufacturers’
    specifications their products meet. However, over the years all vehicle makers have used a number of different specifications, not all of them current. The list may not apply to the models
    you’re working on, so be cautious. Anti-freeze producers also may claim that if you drain the cooling system, you avoid any performance
    issues when you switch. However, this is not necessarily true in a Mercedes, where specific protection has been established with silicate inhibitor and the system
    is designed for continued “refreshment” from the silica gel. Further, it is very difficult to completely drain the modern cooling system in
    all cars, although use of good coolant changing equipment should remove about 90%. So long as the new coolant is the same type as the old,
    there’s no question about its performance."

    Additive packages in ALL type of fluids matter, including coolant. DONT USE UNIVERSAL OF ANY FLUID! ONLY USE FLUID THAT MEETS THE SPEC YOUR CAR REQUIRES!
    Types of inhibitors used do matter. Why else would there be so many coolant types? If one coolant worked great for everything why would there be any chemist ever employed by an antifreeze company?

    Here is a compatibility chart that also shows the differences between different coolants

    http://www.eetcorp.com/antifreeze/Coolants_matrix.pdf

    Plastics, rubber and metal components are not made the same for every engine by every manufacturer. There was a large lawsuit against GM regarding dexcool where it would eat through intake manifold gaskets in certain motors.
    http://www.girardgibbs.com/dexcool/
    2-EHA, which is in Dexcool, eats through Nylan 6,6 and silicon rubber. The misinformation that you are spreading that there is no difference between what GM uses in an engine and every other manufacturer uses is dangerous. Heck, this reasoning doesn't even apply to GM by itself, otherwise every single car that uses Dexcool and was a GM would have gotten a settlement out of the case.

    All that being said, I'm not sure if anything on the engine that comes into contact with coolant did change post 96. Obviously GM didn't change things on other engines when they made the switch until later years or else there wouldn't have been the lawsuit. Here's a list of some of the changes in the northstar through the years:
    http://www.northstarperformance.com/interchange.php
    It is only a partial list though as everything isn't on there. For instance, 03-some 04 had a completely different headbolt than any other year. It uses the same 2000-03 thread pitch, but was a different length and not like the some 04 and all 05+ course thread. This is why I am not 100% sure that there weren't changes.

    While there might be many post dex cars running universal coolant, that doesn't make it a good idea. Its just like the old 'if everyone was jumping off a bridge, would you?' Running any fluid that doesn't meet the required spec is going to shorten the engine life and that's just a simple fact and that also included coolant.

    ----------

    more info from envirotech (bolded emphasis added)

    What About Dex-Cool or Long-Life Antifreeze?

    In 1996, General Motors began factory-filling all their cars and light trucks with "Dex-Cool" antifreeze. Dex-Cool is made by Texaco and is marketed under the Havoline "Extended Life" brand name. Dex-Cool has a service life of five years or 150,000 miles, and is dyed orange so it can be easily distinguished from ordinary green antifreeze. It is ethylene glycol antifreeze but contains a unique corrosion-inhibiting chemistry that uses an organic acid technology (OAT) additive package in lieu of silicates, phosphates or borates.

    Dex-Cool should not be intermixed with ordinary "green" antifreeze because doing so reduces the service life of the new coolant. Many motorists do not know this and may add ordinary coolant to top off their cooling system. In so doing, they reduce the service life of their coolant by half or more and create a potentially corrosive cooling system environment.

    As long-lived as OAT-based antifreezes are, GM does not recommend using Dex-Cool in older vehicles with copper/brass radiators and high lead solder seams. The reason is that the additives in Dex-Cool can eat away at the solder, leading to premature radiator failure. There is also concern that it can erode water pump impellers that experience a lot of cavitations. (New GM engines have specially designed water pump impellers to minimize cavitations).

    Dex-Cool has experienced some problems in GM applications at relatively low mileages. If the coolant level is low, or the concentration of antifreeze in the coolant drops too low, sludge deposits can form that plug up radiators, heater cores and cooling jackets. No one seems to know why this happens, but it is creating questions about Dex-Cool's suitability for some applications. One such application is the cast iron 4.3L V6 engine in Chevy/GMC S-10 pickups and Blazers/Jimmy's. (These vehicles do not have a pressurized coolant reservoir).

    The plugging problem has created a demand for "retrofitting" new GM vehicles back to ordinary antifreeze. Although GM does not approve this, people who have experienced problems with Dex-Cool (or who want to avoid the risk of such problems) are having Dex-Cool removed and replaced with conventional antifreeze.


    further, from the technical director of Zerex via this car and driver article:

    http://www.caranddriver.com/columns/...ich-antifreeze

    "Cars born with green coolant shouldn't be changed to orange," Turcotte advises. It's also a bad idea to mix the two, although the result doesn't immediately turn into witches' brew."

    Though this advice is even bigger when you go even older with radiators that use solder and non aluminum radiators (again not all GM engines are the same and different ones require different coolant for a reason over the company's history. Without a complete knowledge about every model year northstar and all of the materials used I can't say for sure if a pre 96 northstar is fine with dexcool in it or not. MANY cars that came with green ARE NOT fine to put dexcool in & spouting out "There is absolutely NOTHING different about the aluminum, plastic, rubber, and steel components of the cooling systems or engines in GM cars, or GM gasket materials, than any other manufacturer." is 100% incorrect.

    Also, the green freeze on a pre 96 had silicates which are going to attach to the metals and can't be gotten rid of. Once you go green, you can't go back without reducing the service interval of Dexcol as the silicates will breakdown the inhibitors found in dexcool to the point where it can no longer be used as a long life coolant. You would then be back to a 2 year service interval.

  14. #29
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    Re: want to flush Dexcoool coolant

    You pick up the MB coolant flag in Post #24 and expend pages of text explaining how good it is for MB cooling systems and how different manufacturers use different formulations in their metals, rubber, and plastics - thus requiring that manufacturer's recommended coolant, then you chuck the whole premise in the shitcan by stating that all cooling systems should use MB coolant.

    FWIW, the "old" high-silicate green coolants are practically nonexistent today. Even in 1995 most "green" coolant was marked as "no" or "low" silicate formula. GM (and others) specifically state that if you retro to "green" coolant you then shorten the change interval - and your treatise says that owners don't read far enough to put that in their gray matter - are the manufacturers then responsible for some damn fool screwing up their cooling system ? Nope.

    Is it remotely possible that MB wants you to use (hideously expensive) "MB coolant", Ford wants you to use Ford coolant, and so to Toyota, GM, Allison diesel, Caterpillar, several others - all with their own "name brand" coolants ?

    Here - research to your heart's content - there's enough pro, con, sideways arguments in these 109,000 Google hits to keep anyone busy for a while. https://www.google.com/search?q=pres...utf-8&oe=utf-8

    (I use the Prestone Universal coolant mixed 50/50 with distilled water in both the car and trucks. Nary a problem.)

    (Amazon has MB coolant on sale - for $39.75 a gallon. Heck - buy 6. It's a cutesy blue color.)

    (and I don't buy into some MB coolants recommended for 15 - yes, 15 - year service intervals.)

    Bottom line: No matter which coolant you use - keep an eye on it, don't mix types, maintain proper level and never exceed the recommended change interval.

  15. #30
    carguyshu is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: want to flush Dexcoool coolant

    You clearly did not read the article or anything else I posted. The article is stating why you should only use MB coolant in an MB. I've gone on and on about how you should only use coolant that meets the spec of your car. My last post, for instance, details which coolants can be interchanged and meet spec for various models. MB coolant should only be used on MB cars as it only meets spec for them. I can tell you didn't read the article very well or at all as it explains why that service life is 15 years for models that have a slow release silicate bag & 3 years for those that don't. The reason coolant needs changed is b/c the inhibitors wear out sort of like how the additives in oil wear out requiring an oil change. MB solves this problem by creating a slow release system that continually adds the additives back in over time. MB coolant, btw, is only $23 direct from the dealer in concentrate form, so why someone would pay that price on amazon is beyond me. You can easily find the stuff online for under $20, which isn't much more than generic dexcool from oreillys, but I digress.

    You don't have to use Ford brand coolant on a ford or MB brand coolant on an MB, but you do NEED to use COOLANT THAT MEETS THE SPEC for your car (I believe there is only one other coolant brand that is not MB brand that meets MB spec last I looked, but MB keeps a list of all fluids (not just coolant) that meet current spec for every model MB on their website, which is convenient for shopping). In dexcool cars that would be GM6277M spec. If it doesn't say it meets that spec on the bottle, then don't use it. There are lots of brands that aren't from a GM dealer that meets that spec and are fine to use. What isn't fine to use is one that advertises that it is 'suitable' or 'compatible' for all makes and models. Just because it can be mixed with other coolant and not cause a negative chemical reaction does not mean that they should be used in any and all cars. Some will shorten the service life of the existing coolant and others will shorten the service life of cooling system components. Again, ONLY USE COOLANT THAT SPECIFICALLY STATES IT MEETS GM6277M SPEC. JUST BECAUSE IT SAYS 'SUITABLE' OR 'COMPATIBLE' DOES NOT MEAN IT MEETS THE SPEC!

    Your bottom line is correct that you don't want to mix types, but you also don't want to use a generic that doesnt meet GM6277M spec. Some universals do, some don't. Don't use one that doesn't meet the spec. What I was trying to point out is that all cars are different and they need to use coolant that meets the spec that their particular car requires. Saying that you can use dexcool on any car b/c "There is absolutely NOTHING different about the aluminum, plastic, rubber, and steel components of the cooling systems or engines in GM cars, or GM gasket materials, than any other manufacturer" is flat wrong. Dexcool will absolutely destroy some cooling systems & can NOT be used on everything. Saying "Mixing DEX with any green coolant that states it is mixable with any color coolant, WILL NOT damage anything, WILL NOT eat away at gaskets, and WILL NOT create any magical, evil "sludge"." is also 100% inaccurate. Anything with copper/brass & lead solder seams is going to get eaten up. Certain types of plastic will get eaten up. You can't use Dexcool on any and every model that has green in it as factory fill. Some you can, some you can't. Since there is no advantage to using dexcool in any car that has had green in it (b/c the silicates will breakdown the dexcool faster making it then have the same service interval as regular green) why take the chance?

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