Future of the Cadillac division

[Loveldos]

Originally Posted by Dave Buswell

The fact is , as has been pointed out, the era of big cars with large multi-cylinder engines is essentially over by our order of our government. With FIAT owning Chrysler and the feds virtually owning GM, what will be soon coming to your local dealer will be a hybrid econobox. If the public balks at buying these shoeboxes, then plan B will be immediately (rather than gradually) implemented: an ever-rising tax on gasoline until the government's numbers are met and exceeded. Gas at $5.00 a gallon will be recalled as dirt cheap.

Already the assault on the 2nd Amendment has started. Go down to your local sports store and try to buy ammunition for your hunting rifle, shotgun or sidearm. If rationing doesn't work, then the same tax ploy will be undertaken.

If you have any doubt as to the efficacy of the Feds to implement any change in your life style they deem appropriate you only have to ask the tobacco industry.

I used to not believe the tide could be swept completely against the traditional American cars, but with the demise of General Motors as we knew it, and the complete change of the social and political spectrum, I'm afraid environmentalists are winning. Maybe I'm just getting old, but watching the news makes me more cynical everyday. Another assault on American's personal freedoms passed today:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090622/..._obama_tobacco

The traditional (full-sized), personal automobile will not be spared. Econoboxes, treated like an appliance for commuting, will be "de rigeur." It's all very unfortunate for the American auto industry.

[turnne]

Originally Posted by Loveldos

I used to not believe the tide could be swept completely against the traditional American cars, but with the demise of General Motors as we knew it, and the complete change of the social and political spectrum, I'm afraid environmentalists are winning. Maybe I'm just getting old, but watching the news makes me more cynical everyday. Another assault on American's personal freedoms passed today:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090622/..._obama_tobacco

The traditional (full-sized), personal automobile will not be spared. Econoboxes, treated like an appliance for commuting, will be "de rigeur." It's all very unfortunate for the American auto industry.

You can still buy a full size luxury car with a V8( and V12 in some cases)
Lexus, BMW and Mercedes all offer them...those are the top three sellers of luxury cars in the United States( in that order)...and I am sure their full size cars will be available for some time


Warren

[JackB]

Just today I heard a promo for an upcoming interview on National Public Radio and they mentioned that to survive GM may need to sell the Cadillac division. I was so surprised I missed when the interview was to take place.
For what it is worth I am one who wanted to replace my 2002 DHS with 132K but got fed up with the lack of styling change and threw a new set of tires on instead. I am still waiting. I had considered a CTS which is a nice looking car but the mileage is not much better than my DHS which was frustrating considering the size difference.

[SouthernCountry]

So I'm reading the news on CNN at work as I always do when I get bored. I happen to see an article about GM plans for new vehicles and everything. I was scrolling through the list of cars. I think it was about 7 in all that GM is releasing. I get to the last screen shot and I see this monstrosity. I think to myself Cadillac is really losing their mind. No wonder they are in the situation they are in. The vehicle in question is the new CTS Wagon they are going to release.

Who was their target audience and who designed this thing? Very bad taste in my opinion. I've been waiting for Cadillac to at least attempt a release of a pickup but a wagon. Most people I see get wagon are sometimes young people my age but they aren't going to pay almost $36K for one. Are you serious. I'm just wondering what options I'm going to have once I get old. I can't see myself in anything else, but it's pretty obvious that they are losing focus with the consumer. It's only a matter of time before we have to turn to something else because of things like this. I guess I will have to just hold onto my DTS til the wheels fall off to have some sort of remnant of what Caddy you used to be.

[Superjim]

Originally Posted by SouthernCountry

So I'm reading the news on CNN at work as I always do when I get bored. I happen to see an article about GM plans for new vehicles and everything. I was scrolling through the list of cars. I think it was about 7 in all that GM is releasing. I get to the last screen shot and I see this monstrosity. I think to myself Cadillac is really losing their mind. No wonder they are in the situation they are in. The vehicle in question is the new CTS Wagon they are going to release.

Who was their target audience and who designed this thing? Very bad taste in my opinion. I've been waiting for Cadillac to at least attempt a release of a pickup but a wagon. Most people I see get wagon are sometimes young people my age but they aren't going to pay almost $36K for one. Are you serious. I'm just wondering what options I'm going to have once I get old. I can't see myself in anything else, but it's pretty obvious that they are losing focus with the consumer. It's only a matter of time before we have to turn to something else because of things like this. I guess I will have to just hold onto my DTS til the wheels fall off to have some sort of remnant of what Caddy you used to be.

As you can see from ,y age...we are (obviously) from two different generations

I have seen a couple of pics of the new wagon... I didn't think it was too bad at all.

I don't think it will have the comfort and front seat room I will be looking for.. but that is a different story all together.
I will be looking for a BIG car, and it is looking more and more like I will be out of luck, unless I buy one of the last of the big DTS's and then just plan on keeping it for a really long time.

Texas Jim

[c5 rv]

Interesting generational discussion. I think Cadillac is on target with having both the CTS, including the wagon, and the DTS (or whatever replaces it). The division can now attract buyers from their 20s to 80s. I never seriously considered Cadillac until the CTS was announced. My 04 DTS lead to my 06 SRX. Now, I'm looking at a DTS next.

[z06bigbird]

Originally Posted by RoyalCaddy1

I know that it would be almost impossible for GM to be liquidated considering all of the bail out money that has been put into them. What if this chapter 11 reorganization does not work and GM still can't turn a profit? What if GM is forced to liquidate in the future? Would Cadillac be sold to Mercedes, toyota or another foreign competitor? I could not imagine a world with out Cadillac, but these recent events have me worried that this could happen one day.

Maybe I am naive, but I worry more about the world being round. More and more satellite images have shown a pear-shaped globe. But then, I guess no one has the answer for either scenario. lol

[Superjim]

Originally Posted by c5 rv

Interesting generational discussion. I think Cadillac is on target with having both the CTS, including the wagon, and the DTS (or whatever replaces it). The division can now attract buyers from their 20s to 80s. I never seriously considered Cadillac until the CTS was announced. My 04 DTS lead to my 06 SRX. Now, I'm looking at a DTS next.

It would be interesting to get a discussion going between the different generations about the new Cadillacs and what the younger generation like and dislike vs what some of us older ones like and dislike.

That might be a real informative discussion.

Probably need to start a new thread about it.

Texas Jim

[SouthernCountry]

Originally Posted by Superjim

It would be interesting to get a discussion going between the different generations about the new Cadillacs and what the younger generation like and dislike vs what some of us older ones like and dislike.

That might be a real informative discussion.

Probably need to start a new thread about it.

Texas Jim

I definitely agree. I think whats plaguing Cadillac is the fact that they seem to be behind the curve, or trying to be like the other cars. The reason I love Cadillacs is the fact that you can't find a car that looks like it anywhere. All the other makers are starting to look alike. Everyone seems to be gunning for that Euro look which don't get me wrong is very nice, but you have to define yourself to stand out. Soon GM will have cars that look like BMWs with a Caddy grill. I'm not against change but make something that says look at me I'm a Cadillac and what you're driving aint on my level. That's what I saw growing up. You can't mistake a Cadillac for nothing else on the road now but who knows whats to come in the future.

[c5 rv]

Speaking of the incredible, shrinking larger car:

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090...nk-at-Ford--GM

[Superjim]

Originally Posted by c5 rv

Speaking of the incredible, shrinking larger car:

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090...nk-at-Ford--GM

And there was another article there...the Mercury Sable is dead.
It has already ended production.

I am kinda confused about all of this COMMON PLATFORM talk.
My question is...when they use "COMMON PLATFORMS"...can the wheelbase be different, thus allowing DIFFERENT SIZE cars to be built...or...are they all the same wheelbase and just different bodies?

The article you referenced, mentions that the Impala and Malibu will be built on the same platform.

Bottom line...I don't know WHAT THE HECK is going on, or what is going to be built.

Next bottom line...I will be needing another car about the time the 2011's come out.
Probably in the fall of 2010.
But if a bunch of new stuff is coming in 2012...(Fall of 2011)...
I may just wait till then and see whats new.

Right now I am so undecided on what to do...reckon the best thing is not worry too much about it...just wait and see what happens.
I can't change anything that they decide to do anyway.

Texas Jim

[Cadillac Forum]

Actually, Jim - the V6 Hyundai Genesis does 0-60 in 5.9 seconds (Motor Trend did it last week). The V8 does 0-60 in 5.5 - if you want a Cadillac to perform like this, you have to sacrifice a nice "ride" and get into a pretty expensive V-Series... For $42k fully loaded - and often $37k if you shop around - the Hyundai Genesis is hard to beat.

Originally Posted by Superjim

Not being against my Cadillac in any way...you know how much I like it... but...
Have you looked at the Hyundai Genesis?

About the same size as the DTS, but with Rear Wheel Drive...DOHC 4.6L V8...375HP...0 to 60 in 6 seconds flat... 2009 Car of The Year...and loaded out...about $15,000 less than a Cadillac.

Pretty respectable for a first year offering.
I have not looked at one up close, but the specs look pretty good.

Texas Jim

I talk to a LOT of Hyundai owners and I rarely hear them speak about how often their cars are in the shop. All cars break down - but Hyundai's have been very reliable the past few years. Give credit where credit is due - or don't - and lose your credibility.

Originally Posted by z06bigbird

Talk to some of the Hyundai mechanics, and you will immediately change your mind about owning a Hyundai.

Better yet, drive a Caddy, and then drive a Hyundai down the same road. Then tell me that you want a Hyundai as a replacement for your Caddy.

Exactly. Hyundai, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Audi, Jaguar - all still building full-size premium luxury sedans - and none have any plans of downsizing like we hear in America. All GM needs to do is charge the consumer a little extra to pay for the CAFE fines. If you want the vehicle, you'll pay the price. No big deal. There IS SOME HOPE that the Pontiac G8 platform will be used for a full-size Cadillac sometime in the near future - however, I feel that is an unlikely scenario...

Originally Posted by turnne

You can still buy a full size luxury car with a V8( and V12 in some cases)
Lexus, BMW and Mercedes all offer them...those are the top three sellers of luxury cars in the United States( in that order)...and I am sure their full size cars will be available for some time


Warren

GM selling the Cadillac division would be the best thing that could happen to Cadillac. Cadillac cannot continue to grow run by a company that doesn't understand the luxury market. If Cadillac were independent or owned by someone else, we'd have a true S-Class competitor in a few years. Cadillac has the ideas and know-how to make this happen - it's the bean counters at GM making it impossible. That's a fact.

Originally Posted by JackB

Just today I heard a promo for an upcoming interview on National Public Radio and they mentioned that to survive GM may need to sell the Cadillac division. I was so surprised I missed when the interview was to take place.
For what it is worth I am one who wanted to replace my 2002 DHS with 132K but got fed up with the lack of styling change and threw a new set of tires on instead. I am still waiting. I had considered a CTS which is a nice looking car but the mileage is not much better than my DHS which was frustrating considering the size difference.

[c5 rv]

Originally Posted by Superjim

Right now I am so undecided on what to do...reckon the best thing is not worry too much about it...just wait and see what happens.
I can't change anything that they decide to do anyway.

I suggested letting both the SRX and MKZ leases end and driving my old Dakota chore/dog truck and Allante next spring and summer. My wife was not amused.

[Superjim]

Originally Posted by c5 rv

I suggested letting both the SRX and MKZ leases end and driving my old Dakota chore/dog truck and Allante next spring and summer. My wife was not amused.

I know what you mean.
I also have a 2006 Chevy van that I could drive a little more and keep some miles off of the DTS.
It is my work truck / van.
I am planning to retire in Dec of 2010.
I had planned to sell the van and use whatever I get from it, to go along with what I get trade in on the DTS, when I got the next car...in the fall of 2010.

Now I am wondering if I should keep them both till the fall of 2011.
It may be a good idea to keep the van an extra year also and use it for a errand running vehicle to keep from putting so many miles on the DTS.

I have the GMPP on the DTS. It is good till Dec 2011 or 104,000 miles... which ever comes first.
If I slow down the mileage on the DTS, it will stay under warranty till summer or maybe fall of 2011.
Other wise...it will be over the mileage limit sometime next fall. Fall of 2010.

Texas Jim

[Bro-Ham]

Very interesting discussion! I'm Dave and I usually chat on this forum in the old deVille/Fleetwood area.

I own a 1979 Sedan deVille d'Elegance and a 2007 Honda Civic EX Navi. After all of the government involvement in fuel economy and the new proposal to crush cars that the goverment deems unacceptable, I decided I'm dumping the Honda and have been driving the 79 Cadillac EVERY DAY for the last 1 1/2 months! It's a super nice and well maintained car and so far I've had a ton of fun!

Cadillac has plenty of competition and the new products are yielding sales. Cadillac may do well to use concepts that worked in the past for selling luxury cars that look and drive the way Americans want. The Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger demonstrate how going back to the roots of those cars has created a sales renaissance. Imagine going to a Cadillac dealership and seeing a long, low, and lovely car with a big displacement powerful engine, spacious interior styled after fine furniture, exterior designed to be classic and timeless, and interior and exterior colors in abundance - - all to create coveted and sought after masterpieces. New Cadillacs need to be high tech yet simple. Not leading the technology curve but competitive. Our speed limits are 65-75 - - not twice that - - our roads are long and there are some curves. We all seem to be impressed with cars that lead by example. Cadillac needs to make a car that is truly unique in the American tradition. Like the re-birth of the American muscle cars, a new era of luxury cars is long overdue! Viva Cadillac!

Dave