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Considering a 2003 Deville

7K views 80 replies 10 participants last post by  SGWORLDWIDE 
#1 ·
Not trying to high jack, but I'm also considering a 2003 Deville. I'm used to driving MBZs, Jaguars, BMWs (still have one) but always wanted to buy a Caddy. Had one in high school a 95 Fleetwood. But around here either young people get them and ruin them with hydraulics and crazy paint jobs or find a stock ones but the old bats don't want to sell them. And not trying to wait until one of them finally kick the bucket.

Heard the Northstar is notorious for head gasket failure and or head bolt separation. Even the MBZ, Jags, BMWs don't have that sort of problem (Although they have their own certain issues that usually don't ruin an engine or require engine removal). And the tons of listings with Northstar Caddies from 95-2001 with head gasket issue or over heating seem to out number ones that show no issues in the description. How about a 2003 deville, did they solve the issue by then?
Even with Jag and BMW V8 around 1998-2002 the ZF transmission had weak A-drums which (which usually lasted about 60,000-90,000 miles) was fixed by 2003 and the ones that still had it could be fixed easily for about $700 or so and no more problems. Yet I heard about Caddies one their 3rd engine and still have over heating, or ones that don't even make it to 60,000 at a tune of $2500-$5,000 a pop. IS that most people who got the Northstar engine not used to maintance of high performance engines and thought it could be treated like most American motors (I.e run it until it breaks at about 200,000 miles). Heard most repeated issues is due to people trying to re use the head bolts. In the Jag BMW MBZ world, that is common sense to NOT, NEVER EVER, resuse the head bolts. Is this something new to Caddilac owners and thus is why many keep having over heating problems over and over after replacing the haead gaskets?

In the early ones I heard sometimes carbon clog up stuff and help cause the over heating problem because people don't put their foot into it. In the MBZ world it's recommended to drive it at high speeds (somewhere legal) every so often or else sticking valves and carbon gunking can happen in those cars too and cause un even oil distribution and sticking carbon fouled parts.

And of course heard reports of people using water or some other cheap coolant. WTF? In any high performance engine, I would assume that one should never use pure water and only the recommended coolant. I remember back in the day before yellow stuff was sold on the self and it only came in green, MBZ made yellow coolant (W126 era) and when shopping for one for me or others, I automatically walked away if there was any sign that green coolant been put in there or nay other coolant than MBZ yellow. Now the list of recommended coolant for MBZ have expanded but still, none are green.

Now I assume many of the problems like the head gasket and head bolt thing is due mostly to improper maintance and people not paying attention. But since I never owned one I figure I ask here. Is the 2003 Deville good stuff if properly maintained or do that head gasket issue happen no matter what once it start to reach in the 120,000 mile range even with proper maintance? My 560SEL MBZ reached 250,000 miles no issues at all besides regular maintance wit hthe biggest thing is timing chain and tensioners and it still would be going if I didn't leave it in Germany. 420SEL, 1500,000 miles+ still running, just sold it. Jaguar XJ8, now tha tcan be a tempermental beast but nothing major and no leaks, mostly little electrical niggles and that weak A drum just bought a new one with the reinforced updated A-drum no tranny problem since. The BMWs 328i coupe 07 not a single issue. 528e running rich but eventually with patience ran down the problem, pretty cheap. BMW 7 series, little electrical issues here and there never stranded but annoying when the dash look like christmas tree and a pain in the butt to reset lights after services but no major issues.

The old 95 Fleetwood, would buy one if any one know of some old guy that is about to die and ready to sell and happen to be somewhere near el paso.
 
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#2 ·
Re: to buy a 2003 deville - reliability questions

Yet I heard about Caddies one their 3rd engine and still have over heating,
or ones that don't even make it to 60,000 at a tune of $2500-$5,000 a pop

that's where I had to stop reading all this misinformation -

forget EVERYTHING you heard/were told -

start doing your own research -

here - on the Deville forum -

the Northstar Performance forum -
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-engines-system-technical-discussion/

the TechTips forum -
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-tech-tips-how-fix/

and form your own - INFORMED - opinion -
 
#3 ·
Re: to buy a 2003 deville - reliability questions

....or find a stock ones but the old bats don't want to sell them. And not trying to wait until one of them finally kick the bucket.
How to win friends and influence people.
Heard the Northstar is notorious for head gasket failure and or head bolt separation....

....Yet I heard about Caddies one their 3rd engine and still have over heating, or ones that don't even make it to 60,000 at a tune of $2500-$5,000 a pop....

....Heard most repeated issues is due to people trying to re use the head bolts....

....In the early ones I heard sometimes carbon clog up stuff and help cause the over heating problem....

....And of course heard reports of people using water or some other cheap coolant....
Add in a dash of "I presumes" and you are regurgitating a shipload of hearsay regarding a double handful of ten plus year old cars operated and "repaired" by folks who had no clue about what they were doing.

Do your own serious academic research and be prepared to filter the hearsay from the facts.

I have heard the earth is flat. I have heard there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. And then there is the bunny that distributes chicken eggs in the spring.

The old 95 Fleetwood, would buy one if any one know of some old guy that is about to die and ready to sell and happen to be somewhere near el paso.
Good grief!
 
#4 ·
Re: to buy a 2003 deville - reliability questions

:welcome:

Boy this is an old resurrected thread. I'm now at 104K and still no problems.

The pre-2000 Northstars (particularly the '99's) where notorious for HG failures. GM went to longer had bolts in 2000 and the failures dropped way off. They went to a coarser thread pitch in '04 and they all but ceased.
 
#5 ·
Re: to buy a 2003 deville - reliability questions

Thanks for the replies. Yeah all that stuff I said, came from research online. That is whyI said "I heard" because I haven't seen for myself yet and some are conflicting information.

Because on various sites, from experts to consumers there are some that say Northstar is the worst engine and avoid at all cost on earth to Northstar never had and or they never heard any such problem with Northstar and is top rated engine. Some said online, on various expert sites, they fixed the problems in 97 others, experts, one that said he rebuilds them for a living said they never fixed the HG gasket. That all was part of my research and eventually that research brought me here and of course cross checking facts. No need to be rude about it, JD. Because when some don't ask questions because of fear of people will give them the business, that is how misinformation is believed and ran with.

Thus, if all of that is true, sometimes it's just polite to point them in the right direction without snark. Because if I knew I would have gotten a rude reply, I may have decided to not even bother asking and those hearsay, would be the only information in the research and thus looks true, and then in the end doesn't help with ridding misinformation and replacing it with facts and end up with misinformation that Northstar is a crappy engine that everyone have problems with. But due to a couple of other answers and links, now I have the tools to see what else is out there about this engine with one person with 104K and no issues which is said, by some Northstar rebuilders, that is when the engine usually take a craps with the HG, between that and about 140,000 miles "and always remember that a Northstar looses its head gaskets usually between 100k to 140k."http://www.carrollcustomcadillac.com/Pages/NorthstarInfospecs.aspx.


And for the links from the others, appreciate it. Looks like some god information especially the ones about the changes through out the years.
 
G
#9 · (Edited)
caddys have no more problems then any other luxury car electronics are there weakness, but if we did not like fancy gadgets we would all drive Hondas lol get a 04 or 05 never heard of one with a HG problem 00-03 can still be a crapshoot though are better also on 04. u have to check the engine ID look at the sticky section as early 04s have the 1.5m bolts later 04s have the 2m bolts, ether way the northstar is a good engine besides that early HG defect its the last true Cadillac engine, plenty of power and besides some minor issues like oil leaks and so on its bullet proof. the public is a mob when something goes wrong they grasp onto it and stick with that and that becomes the faith of the product. u cant please everyone and when u don't under stand the nature of the beast (N* V8) and treat it like any old daily econemy driver, u bought the wrong car majority of people think u can drive a car day in and day out and the car is not suppose to break or does not need to be maintained theres alot more to taking care of a car, nevertheless a luxury car then oil changes and tire rotaions if u don't want to deal with a high end car theres always simpler cars is what I tell people who want the looks and feel but don't want to take care of it or know how.
 
#10 ·
I'll donate a couple of periods to this thread. Any member can paste any one of these as they'd like into their posts. No need to ask permission - just take as you please! Let me know if you ever need more as I have plenty saved up!

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MODS, please sticky.

:rolleyes:
 
#15 ·
You may alter your opinion of Cadillac as being the "best" car in America after you have lived with one for a while. Other makes and models are and have been just as reliable or just as lousy. Engines ?? The Northstar is an adaptation of a Lotus DOHC high performance engine - and is just as temperamental as any Lotus, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Jaguar, etc., etc. engine ever in production. The Northstar is a tad smaller than a 1963 Chevy 283, which was one of the best, toughest engines ever built, and a progression of the engine that founded the still-made GM "small block" series. (For reliability and sheer power I prefer [and build] a tricked out 1970 Olds 455 - but not in our FWD context.)
 
#17 ·
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The Northstar is a tad smaller than a 1963 Chevy 283
the 283 came out mid 1957 - the early 57 had the 265 -

For reliability and sheer power I prefer [and build] a tricked out 1970 Olds 455
I agree - the Olds 455 would be on the top of my list too -
along with the Pontiac 400 -
 
G
#19 ·
yup as good as the northstar is its still complex and outdated compared to gm small block ls series which is why gm ditched the plan for caddys having there own engine and just uses the ls line all across most of gms car line up which is why I like the older caddys the newer ones look sharp but there chevys, and buicks in disguise even the dash is the same layout our FWD caddys and the older gens are the last that are a real Cadillac design with Cadillac custom parts though some things are shared that's fine but when I buy a 50,000 luxury car that thing better be mostly different not have the same engine, dash, and whole bunch of parts from lower tier brands with different body work make it different or don't make it at all
 
#22 ·
All I can agree with there is there are NO true caddys anymore. When they killed the n*, they killed the Cadillac. And the Buick's being the same is all part of the allure. If you don't have $50,000 for a caddy, you can get almost a caddy for $29,500. The only way your getting a one off in today's world is spending better than 200k. Simply put, I'm 6'9" tall. I can't comfortably sit in a CTS, or a DTS. I am in pure heaven in my outdated ELDO. I would even like to have my '79 riviera back. But not a CTS. If I want the speed, I'll just steal the motor and CPU components and put it in an allante and save 30k. Just my humble opinion.
 
#30 ·
No, it just coincided with the demise of a comfortable Cadillac.

----------

I mean, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. All I'm trying to say is that if you don't care about the motor in your car, your NOT an enthusiast. Cadillac has created an image for itself in the past 100+ years, and the Cadillacs of recent DO NOT match that image. Lincoln has done the same thing. Just because the world thinks small is cool, doesn't mean its what the consumers and fans of a LARGE LUXURY CAR advocate it being downsized because it uses more gas than a Prius. I, for one, am EXTREMELY disappointed in the styling of late model Cadillacs. My basic point is that you can call it whatever you want, but it ain't a Cadillac.
 
#31 ·
Cadillacs image has changed drastically over the past couple of decades. It's still GMs premier luxury brand, but Cadillacs haven't been "traditional" Cadillacs for quite some time. And it's been making non "Cadillac like" models for even longer, since before the Northstar was even introduced.
 
#33 ·
But they have always been large luxury cars. Even in the late eightys-early nineties when they downsized. They aren't large any more. Like I said, I'm 6'9" tall and when I got into my buddies CTS, I was immediately disappointed and was surprised at the lack of size. It is just my humble opinion. I'm extra large, so a normal cat wouldn't agree, I'm sure.
 
#34 ·
The hands of GM and all the automobile companies are tied by government (EPA) mandated CAFE requirements. There are two obvious approaches to meeting the CAFE number; produce lighter (smaller) passenger cars AND power those cars with smaller displacement engines coupled to an efficient 6 or 7 or X speed transmission.

Another way to shed pounds is to eliminate the (heavy) styling touches that define a "luxury" car.

Since the early 1970s we are living in a world where government imposed standards are limiting consumer choices. Most noticeable in the arena of passenger cars. The first casualty was mass production of the 400+ cubic inch engines in a bare bones 3,000 lb street vehicle (AKA muscle cars).

Today's enthusiast can still pay a premium for low production volume domestic cars like a V series Cadillac or a Camaro or a Corvette or a Mustang. But the automakers are passing the CAFE penalties and gas guzzler taxes along to the purchaser.

Ninety five + percent of the motoring public will not be concerned about smaller - lighter vehicles. Moving safely and efficiently from point A to point B is what consumers vote for with their dollars. Those of us who want more than that have fewer choices today and likely will have even fewer choices tomorrow.
 
G
#40 · (Edited)
so true this countries government is a whole another issue like i said most people could careless whats under the hood or don't know noting about the car which is most of the population us purests are a niche crowd kind of like us PC builders comp usa I miss uuuuuuuu :rolleyes: o well im lazy now newegg here I come
 
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