1994 Concours will not start
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Cadillac DeVille 1985 to 2005 including:
1985-1992 Fleetwood, 1993 Sixty Special, All FWD Forum Discussion, 1994 Concours will not start in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; I have been going in circles with a rash of problems with my car and now have a new problem. ...
  1. #1
    bogie is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    1994 Concours will not start

    I have been going in circles with a rash of problems with my car and now have a new problem. With great advice from Ranger and others, I found the corrosion that prevented my new starter from working. However, I started to have the car momentarily completely lose power, but either it would come back on before the engine died or I could immediately restart the car. Each time I would hear a "pop" when the power came back on. Two days ago I heard am electrical "groaning" coming from the area of the glove box when I started the car, and within 2 minutes I again had a momentary electrical failure and again everything came back on.

    When I got to the office this morning the engine died in the parking lot twice before I got parked. Tonight the car started immediately, and then died. Now I can crank the engine but it will not start as if no fuel was going to the engine. I get a P052 code from the diagnostics and am wondering if the PCM has died. As a side note, because I was having overheating with some coolant leakage earlier, I carefully followed instructions to upgrade the readout on the dash to the 1996 code and changed the ICM from "016" to "048" so I now have a readout of the RPM and temperature. Hopefully that did not stress the PCM.

    Any thoughts on this problem will be greatly appreciated!

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  3. #2
    rodnok01's Avatar
    rodnok01 is online now Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 1994 Concours will not start

    Changing what is displayed has nothing to do with your problems.
    Is the engine just shutting off or are you losing electrical to everything?
    Is the problem at idle, just off idle, cruising down road, etc?
    Wouldn't hurt to check the fuel pressure since you have no codes relating. The code P052 should be from unhooking the battery before.

  4. #3
    Ranger's Avatar
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    Re: 1994 Concours will not start

    I'd be very interested to know what your fuel pressure is, both at idle and when this stall occurs. Even if the pressure is good, it is possible to have an intermittent connection at or in the fuel pump.

  5. #4
    amunderdog is online now Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 1994 Concours will not start

    P052 (E052) .................................................. ..... PCM Memory Reset
    http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html
    Not showing P109 (E109) ....... Keep Alive Memory (KAM) Reset/PCM has lost primary battery power
    That should be a clue (Wish I knew what it means).
    I have read of connections to PCM having trouble.
    That could be a place to check. Pull the PCM - It is behind the glove box in the corner - Check and clean the connections - See what happens.

    http://www.rockauto.com/ STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS Part # EM7430 $90.79 core $70.00 Total $160.79
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCM-Engine-P...6b19d2&vxp=mtr
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMP-STANDARD...e6b4f9&vxp=mtr

  6. #5
    bogie is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    1994 Concours will not start

    Thank you very much for the input! First I should indicate that I was getting an electrical shutdown, ie. the radio went off, the dash display goes blank and when it came back on the car showed 0 miles range and 0 MPG. Ranger it is possible that I might have multiple problems with a bad fuel pump, but I do not relish the idea of lying in a parking lot at 28*F to drop the tank and replace the fuel pump! I did replace the pump 5 years ago so it is not the original and I will check to se what kind of pressure there is at the fuel rail.

    Thanks also for the assurance that my reset of the display does not have a bearing on my problem--I was sure that was the case but when multiple problems pop up you start to wonder if some how you created the problem!

    Back to the PCM for a moment. I had been wresting with a non-shifting transmission for weeks, on which Ranger had been a considerable help! Is it possible that the PCM could be causing my transmission problem of not shifting from 2nd gear? I replaced both the A and B solenoids but it did not correct my P029 and P072 codes and when I tested the original solenoids both worked when I put a current to them. Perhaps my problems may be related?

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    rodnok01's Avatar
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    Re: 1994 Concours will not start

    If everything is going blank you have an electrical supply problem. One of the cables is bad or a bad connection at batt/fuse panel or alt dorking up maybe. if the engine was shutting off maybe FP but doubt its the issue now.
    A single computer doesn't control all those things going blank IIRC.

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    bogie is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 1994 Concours will not start

    Thanks for this insight. I will go get a can do Deoxit as Ranger has recommended and clean every connection goingntonthe battery as the next step to resolve the problem.

  9. #8
    bogie is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 1994 Concours will not start

    The temperature outside got over 30°F so I was able to do some underhood checking. I again cleaned the terminals on the battery and the connections and retried starting the car, without success. The only active code I have now is:
    P035 (E035) .......................... PCM reference low signal voltage Out of Range

    Ranger, I tried to see if I have fuel pressure, and without all my tools was only able to partially depress the fuel pressure release at the fuel rail, and did not get a stream of fuel, so I may be looking at a fuel pump as you suggested. I will also check the fuel pump fuse. Fortunately if I have to change the pump, the body shop which has maintained the finish on the car all these years is across the street and the owner said I can use his lift over the weekend if I tow the car over to his garage.

    Any thoughts on the P035 diagnostic code relative to my PCM being bad?

    ---------

  10. #9
    amunderdog is online now Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 1994 Concours will not start

    http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=11934
    Another place I looked says PO35 = Ignition ground voltage out of range

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    Re: 1994 Concours will not start

    Quote Originally Posted by bogie View Post
    Ranger, I tried to see if I have fuel pressure, and without all my tools was only able to partially depress the fuel pressure release at the fuel rail, and did not get a stream of fuel, so I may be looking at a fuel pump as you suggested. I will also check the fuel pump fuse.
    You need to check it at idle (fuel pump running), but simply pressing the valve will only tell you that there is pressure, not how much. 10 psi will spray, but won't run the engine. You need a fuel pressure gauge.

  12. #11
    bogie is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 1994 Concours will not start

    Quote Originally Posted by amunderdog View Post
    http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=11934
    Another place I looked says PO35 = Ignition ground voltage out of range
    Hopefully re-cleaning all the terminals on the wires and the battery will resolve that issue--thanks for your research on This!

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    You need to check it at idle (fuel pump running), but simply pressing the valve will only tell you that there is pressure, not how much. 10 psi will spray, but won't run the engine. You need a fuel pressure gauge.
    Ranger, you point is well taken--I was just using my reference of a stream spraying out when I took the pressure off the system when I was replacing the starter motor. Now there was not even a drip coming out, so it seemed safe to believe that it is not getting fuel from the tank to the injectors. I will get a fuel pressure gauge when I pick up the new pump this evening.

  13. #12
    Ranger's Avatar
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    Re: 1994 Concours will not start

    I probably should have clarified my statement a bit. You need to check it at idle (fuel pump running), IF you can get it to run. If not, then test it at key on. The pump will (should) run for 2-3 seconds at key on to pressurize the fuel system. If no crank signal is received, it will shut down until one is, but that is enough to get a fuel pressure reading.

  14. #13
    bogie is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 1994 Concours will not start

    Thanks Ranger--I don't believe that I am getting even 2 seconds of pump operation and the fuse is good, so I am guessing I will be replacing the pump tomorrow

  15. #14
    Ranger's Avatar
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    Re: 1994 Concours will not start

    Yeah if you can't get any pump operation I'd say the pump has given up the ghost.

    If it is working you should be able to hear it with your ear to the open fuel filler pipe while someone else turns the key on.

  16. #15
    bogie is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 1994 Concours will not start

    I had forgotten how much trouble it is to replace the fuel pump! I now have good fuel flow to the fuel rail but the car will not start. It still gives P035 as the only active trouble code so I am wondering if this all boils down to a bad PCM module. When I had cranked the engine, without any starting, I did get a "WAIT 3 MINUTES" warning message on the dash readout.

    Back in my Cadillac history, I had a 1980 Eldorado Biarritz which stopped running after having bouts with rough halting operation, and I replaced the PCM. The car then ran, but would not accelerate. I had 2 shops try to find the problem, because "obviously" it was the not PCM which was replaced. As it finally turned out, I got a replacement PCM, and the problem which did not really show up in any diagnosis was a bad remanufactured PCM. With my current problem, I am again thinking about 3 things that happened before the car stopped:
    1. The car would just suddenly stop as if all electricity were turned off, and then it would come back within several seconds so I could restart the car.
    2. A couple of days before the car totally stopped running, I heard an electrical "groaning" or odd humming that sounded like it was coming from the PCM or from the glovebox area.
    3. Right before the car stopped running permanently, the car stalled 3 times within 1 to 2 minutes, with it taking longer to start each time. Then, when I tried to start at the end of the day, the car would not start at all.

    Might these be symptoms of a bad PCM, and it does not know how to express this problem other than P035?

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