2002 Deville Misfire
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Cadillac DeVille 1985 to 2005 including:
1985-1992 Fleetwood, 1993 Sixty Special, All FWD Forum Discussion, 2002 Deville Misfire in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; I have a 2002 Deville. It is misfiring. Pulled the codes at the local Advanced Auto and here is what ...
  1. #1
    Deltamaster is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    2002 Deville Misfire

    I have a 2002 Deville.

    It is misfiring.

    Pulled the codes at the local Advanced Auto and here is what I have:

    P0300 - Random Multicylinder Misfire
    P0327 - Knox Sensor Circuit low input (bank 1/1 sensor)
    P0340 - Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit Error
    P0741 - Torque Converter Stuck off (the dreaded $50.00 part buried in the $2000.00 repair)
    P1106 - Map Sensor Circuit Interim High Voltage
    P1860 - TCC PWM Solenoid Circuit Electrical

    OK, I know that the P0741 is something to not worry too much about and should have nothing to do with the current misfire problem. This code has existed for MANY years and have driven the car with no problems.

    I replaced the rubber intake plenum about three years ago. Would that develop a crack in the past two to three years causing these problems?

    Has anyone else experienced misfire, hesitation, severe misfire at high RPMs and stalling when the throttle is released while throwing these codes and lived to tell about it?


    The last time I cam here for help you folks were great and steered me toward the rubber plenum on the inlet side of the intake manifold. Sure enough that was the problem then and it was NOT visibly noticeable until the part was removed so I thought that you folks would be able to help me out here once again.

    The car is driven about 15 miles per day five days per week at low speeds (around 45 mph or less) around town.

    Just thought I would see what you folks say before I pull the intake manifold off to check that darn plenum.

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  3. #2
    Ranger's Avatar
    Ranger is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2002 Deville Misfire

    If the plenum duct is only three years old it should be fine. When was the TB last cleaned? It may be due. Based on those codes you may need a new MAP & cam position sensor. I'd start with a TB cleaning and replacing those two sensors.

  4. #3
    70cougar is online now Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: 2002 Deville Misfire

    Just to be sure you know, you can pull your own codes any time you want from the driver's seat:

    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...odes-dtcs.html

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    Deltamaster is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2002 Deville Misfire

    DUH... Now that you mention it that is how I pulled the codes the last time! What was I thinking?!

    I have not cleaned the Throttle Body since I inherited the car back in 2009. It belonged to my grandfather who would take it to the dealer if he had problems or for regular maintenance.

    I have not had any problems with the car besides the cracked plenum and the failed transmission part since I have had it.

    We ran some injector cleaner through about a month ago on the suggestion of the local Caddy dealer with no relief. Symptoms have worsened since then.

    WOT the throttle and the thing runs hot for a few seconds then cuts out, back off on the throttle and it comes back to life. WOT again and cuts out.

    I was thinking the crankshaft position sensor as my Dodge Dakota pickup acted similarly (but worse) when that went bad on it.

  6. #5
    Ranger's Avatar
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    Re: 2002 Deville Misfire

    You do not have CKP symptoms (stalling at idle, deceleration and sometimes at cruise, occasional longer than normal crank times).

    "Cutting out" at WOT in neutral is normal. The PCM has a rev limiter set at about 4000 RPM to prevent self inflicted wounds.

    I'd say you are well overdue for a good TB cleaning and that just might solve your problem. There is a tutorial in the Tech Tips section if you need help. Cleaning the TB every spring will make future cleanings a simple spray N wipe.

  7. #6
    Deltamaster is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2002 Deville Misfire

    OK. I will try this tomorrow.

    So you think this is what is throwing all these codes (except the transmission code) then?

  8. #7
    MoistCabbage's Avatar
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    Along with the cam position and MAP sensors.

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    Deltamaster is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2002 Deville Misfire

    Thank you all for all the help and insight. Cleaned the TB and have determined that maybe it is time to replace the two sensors.

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    Goldencletus is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 2002 Deville Misfire

    At the risk of getting abused...Where is the "Tech Tips"? I've looked all over the page and even searched "tech Tips" and can't seem to find it. Thanks,

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    Re: 2002 Deville Misfire

    Go to the Forums main page, scroll down to Discussions, Item Specific: Cadillac Tech Tips
    Just as Deville is a sub-forum of past Cadillac forum, Tech Tips is a sub-forum of Discussions forum.

    Goldencletus, If you've been stuck in Deville all this time you haven't seen 1/1000th of the forum/site.

    Deltamaster,
    Go up ^^^ to the Community tab, Albums, the red Seville. 2 albums, 6 pages, 118 pictures and diagrams of your engine, sensors, etc., etc.

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    Deltamaster is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2002 Deville Misfire

    My step-father took the car to a local mechanic. The mechanic pulled the codes just as I did and told him that the transmission is "shot" and needs to be rebuilt at a cost of $2400.00 and that the other sensor codes would probably resolve on their own after the transmission is rebuilt.

    I told him to go back and get that in writing that spending that much to "rebuild" the transmission WOULD resolve those problems but naturally that was refused.

    I personally think that the mechanic knows exactly what he is doing and is filling my step-father with a line of poo in order to get him to spend more money on repairs than the car is worth... on repairs that are not really required in order to get the engine to run properly.

    I found the MAP sensor in the diagrams you provided. Now I need to find the CP sensor. THEN, if it is not too much trouble to do it i will go out and replace them myself and see how the car runs after that.

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    Deltamaster is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2002 Deville Misfire

    Are there two camshaft sensors? Are they difficult to replace?

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    Re: 2002 Deville Misfire

    There are two CKPs and one CMP. (The sticky post ^^^ Acronyms).

    CranKshaft Position sensor
    CaMshaft Position sensor

    The original CKPs were made by Siemens in Mexico - one tan, one black - they were subject to random failures.
    The new CKPs are made by DENSO in Japan, one gray, one black.

    CKPs are on the lower left (front) side of the engine block just right of the oil filter adapter.
    The CMP is in the front of the right (rear) cylinder head face at about 6 o'clock in front of the exhaust cam sprocket.

    Pictures, diagrams, part numbers in my albums - the Community tab ^^^, Albums, the red Seville.

    CKPs - car up on a lift, lower air deflector removed, oil filter adapter removed. 10mm wobble socket, extension, magic words. Each is mechanically and electrically different so the install and connectors fit only one way
    CMP - small hands, 10mm socket, more magic words.

  15. #14
    Deltamaster is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2002 Deville Misfire

    Would the P0340 - Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit Error code cause the P0300 - Random Multicylinder Misfire and P0327 - Knox Sensor Circuit low input (bank 1/1 sensor) codes if the camshaft sensor was bad? Would replacing the camshaft sensor correct these three codes? Would replacing the camshaft sensor correct the P1106 MAP sensor code as well or should I just replace he MAP sensor while I am at it?

    I found a video on youtube describing how to replace the TCC solenoid without removing the transmission. It is very tight but if the motor mounts and a bunch of stuff are removed the engine/transmission assembly can be "tilted(?)" enough to allow the cover to be moved just enough to remove and replace the solenoid with a small hook. Has anyone done this? It mentions removing the PCM. Is there anything I need to be careful about when removing and replacing the PCM? I would assume the very first thing would be to get under the back seat and disconnect the battery before anything else.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Submariner409 View Post
    There are two CKPs and one CMP. (The sticky post ^^^ Acronyms).

    CranKshaft Position sensor
    CaMshaft Position sensor

    The original CKPs were made by Siemens in Mexico - one tan, one black - they were subject to random failures.
    The new CKps are made by DENSO in japan, one gray, one black.

    CKPs are on the lower left (front) side of the engine block just right of the oil filter adapter.
    The CMP is in the front of the right (rear) cylinder head face at about 6 o'clock in front of the exhaust cam sprocket.

    Pictures, diagrams, part numbers in my albums - the Community tab ^^^, Albums, the red Seville.

    CKPs - car up on a lift, lower air deflector removed, oil filter adapter removed. 10mm wobble socket, extension, magic words. Each is mechanically and electrically different so the install and connectors fit only one way
    CMP - small hands, 10mm socket, more magic words.
    Stupid me. I found the answer right after I posted the question. Looks like all I have to do is get the coolant tank out of the way and it is a fairly simple replacement.

    I am not throwing any Crankshaft codes so I can assume there is no problem with the crankshaft sensors.

    ----------

    Those albums to which you referred were great reference material and cool pics as well. Thanks for referring them to me.

  16. #15
    Submariner409's Avatar
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    Re: 2002 Deville Misfire

    The CMP sends cylinder TDC information to the PCM. It has nothing to do with MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure - the inverse of vacuum) or the knock sensor (retards timing a little bit upon sensing a narrow band of mechanical noise frequency).

    The PCM is on an umbilical cord in the airbox. Lift it out, up and over out of the way.

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