Losing 2 gallons plus a day of coolant....head gasket?
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Cadillac DeVille 1985 to 2005 including:
1985-1992 Fleetwood, 1993 Sixty Special, All FWD Forum Discussion, Losing 2 gallons plus a day of coolant....head gasket? in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Nope! Looks like the radiator is leaking. Right underneath the passenger side top hose connection I can see fluid leaking ...
  1. #1
    Slipgate is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Losing 2 gallons plus a day of coolant....head gasket?

    Nope! Looks like the radiator is leaking. Right underneath the passenger side top hose connection I can see fluid leaking from somewhere. I don't think it is the hose. I looked on this site but can't really find any decent replacement instructions for the radiator. It does look like I can do it without disconnecting the A/C system at all which is good since I just recharged it.

    Can anyone point me to a set of instructions? I'll try to do a decent write-up for future generations and post it in tech tips.

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    Submariner409's Avatar
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    Re: Losing 2 gallons plus a day of coolant....head gasket?

    Ummm.............. Google "cadillac forums 1998 deville radiator replacement".

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    Ranger's Avatar
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    Re: Losing 2 gallons plus a day of coolant....head gasket?

    Nothing in Tech Tips?

    2 gallons a day? My God, that's hemorrhaging.

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    Slipgate is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Losing 2 gallons plus a day of coolant....head gasket?

    Quote Originally Posted by Submariner409 View Post
    Ummm.............. Google "cadillac forums 1998 deville radiator replacement".
    Bupkiss...

    I did find one set on this forum but it was just a page out of a service manual that had the parts about removing the condenser. I know that is not necessary. I was hoping someone that did it documented it somewhere.

  6. #5
    SUPER LAC DEVILLE's Avatar
    SUPER LAC DEVILLE is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Losing 2 gallons plus a day of coolant....head gasket?

    Quote Originally Posted by slipgate View Post
    nope! Looks like the radiator is leaking. Right underneath the passenger side top hose connection i can see fluid leaking from somewhere. I don't think it is the hose. I looked on this site but can't really find any decent replacement instructions for the radiator. It does look like i can do it without disconnecting the a/c system at all which is good since i just recharged it.

    Can anyone point me to a set of instructions? I'll try to do a decent write-up for future generations and post it in tech tips.
    Radiator Replacement
    Removal Procedure


    1. Drain the coolant. Refer to Cooling System Draining and Filling (BELOW) .
    2. Disable the SIR. Refer to Disabling the SIR System in SIR (BELOW) .
    3. Move the forwarding discriminating sensor out of the way. Refer to Inflatable Restraint Front End Discriminating Sensor Replacement in SIR (BELOW) .
    4. Remove the air cleaner assembly. Refer to Air Cleaner Assembly Replacement in Body Front End (BELOW) .
    5. Remove the cooling fans. Refer to Engine Cooling Fan Replacement (BELOW) .
    6. Disconnect the radiator inlet hose from the radiator.
    7. Disconnect the radiator outlet hose from the radiator.
    8. Disconnect the engine oil cooler lines from the right radiator end tank.
    9. Disconnect the transmission oil cooler lines from the left radiator end tank.
    10. Remove the left and the right engine torque struts.
    11. Remove the upper radiator support screws.
    12. Remove the radiator from the vehicle. Lift the radiator up and out.
    Installation Procedure
    1. Install the radiator to the vehicle.
    Notice: Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.
    2. Install the upper radiator support screws.
    Tighten
    Tighten the bolts to 6 N•m (53 lb in).
    3. Install the transmission oil cooler lines to the radiator.
    Tighten
    Tighten the transmission oil cooler line fittings to 27 N•m (20 lb ft).
    4. Connect the engine oil cooler lines to the radiator.
    Tighten
    Tighten the engine oil cooler lines to 18 N•m (13 lb ft).
    5. Install the left and the right engine support torque struts.
    6. Connect the radiator outlet hose to the radiator.
    7. Connect the radiator inlet hose to the radiator.
    8. Install the cooling fans. Refer to Engine Cooling Fan Replacement .
    9. Install the air cleaner assembly. Refer to Air Cleaner Assembly Replacement in Body Front End.
    10. Install the forward discriminating sensor. Refer to Inflatable Restraint Front End Discriminating Sensor Replacement in SIR.
    11. Enable the SIR. Refer to Enabling the SIR System in SIR.
    12. Refill the coolant. Refer to Cooling System Draining and Filling .
    © 2013 General Motors Corporation. All rights reserved.


    Disabling the SIR System

    1. Turn the steering wheel so that the vehicle's wheels are pointing straight ahead.
    2. Turn the ignition switch to the OFF position.
    3. Remove the key from the ignition switch.
    4. Remove the SIR Fuse from the trunk compartment fuse block.

    Important: With the SIR Fuse removed and the ignition switch in the RUN position, The AIR BAG warning lamp illuminates. This is normal operation, and does not indicate an SIR system malfunction.

    5. Remove the sound insulator-LH.
    6. Remove the Connector Position Assurance (CPA) (4) from the inflatable restraint steering wheel yellow 2-way connector (1) located at the base of the steering column (2).
    7. Disconnect the inflatable restraint steering wheel yellow 2-way connector (1) located at the base of the steering column (2).
    8. Remove the IP compartment.
    9. Locate the inflatable restraint IP module yellow 2-way connector (1). The connector is attached the IP sheetmetal to the right of the IP compartment.
    10. Remove the Connector Position Assurance (CPA) (2) from the inflatable restraint IP module yellow 2-way connector (1).
    11. Disconnect the inflatable restraint IP module yellow 2-way connector (2) from the harness connector.

    Disabling the Side Air Bags

    If you need to disable the side air bags, perform the following steps for each side air bag. showTif.do?image=235710
    1. Remove the door trim panel. Refer to Door Trim Panel Replacement in Doors.
    2. Remove the Connector Position Assurance (CPA) (3) from the inflatable restraint side impact inflator module yellow 2-way connector (2).
    3. Disconnect the inflatable restraint side impact inflator module yellow 2-way connector (2) from the harness connector.

    Enabling the SIR System

    1. Remove the key from the ignition switch.
    2. Connect the inflatable restraint IP module yellow 2-way connector (1).
    3. Attach the inflatable restraint IP module yellow 2-way connector (1) to the IP sheetmetal.
    4. Verify that the pigtail and harness wiring is routed away from the HVAC mix door actuator.
    5. Install the IP compartment.
    6. Install the Connector Position Assurance (CPA) (2) to the inflatable restraint IP module yellow 2-way connector (1).
    7. Connect the inflatable restraint steering wheel yellow 2-way connector (4) located near the base of the steering column (2).
    8. Install the Connector Position Assurance (CPA) (4) to the inflatable restraint steering wheel yellow 2-way connector (1) located near the base of the steering column (2).
    9. Install the sound insulator-LH.
    10. Procedure for Enabling the side air bags (1).
    10.1. Connect the inflatable restraint side air bag inflator module yellow 2-way connector (2).
    10.2. Install the Connector Position Assurance (CPA) (3) to the inflatable restraint side air bag module yellow 2-way connector (2).
    10.3. Install the door trim panel. Refer to Door Trim Panel Replacement in Doors.
    11. Install the SIR Fuse to the trunk compartment fuse block.
    12. Staying well away from both air bags, turn the ignition switch to the RUN position.
    12.1. The AIR BAG warning lamp will flash seven times.
    12.2. The AIR BAG warning lamp will then turn OFF.
    13. Perform the SIR Diagnostic System Check if the AIR BAG warning lamp does not operate as described.

    © 2013 General Motors Corporation. All rights reserved.


    Inflatable Restraint Front End Discriminating Sensor Replacement
    Removal Procedure


    Caution: Be careful when you handle a sensor. Do not strike or jolt a sensor. Before applying power to a sensor:
    • Remove any dirt, grease, etc. from the mounting surface.

    • Position the sensor horizontally on the mounting surface.

    • Point the arrow on the sensor toward the front of the vehicle.

    • Tighten all of the sensor fasteners and sensor bracket fasteners to the specified torque value.
    Failure to follow the correct procedure could cause air bag deployment, personal injury, or unnecessary SIR system repairs.
    1. Disable the frontal SIR system. Refer to Disabling the SIR System .
    2. Remove the radiator support cover.
    The inflatable restraint front end discriminating sensor is located behind the hood hinge (1).
    3. Remove the Connector Position Assurance (CPA) (5) from the inflatable restraint front end discriminating sensor harness connector (4).
    4. Disconnect the inflatable restraint front end discriminating sensor harness connector (4) from the inflatable restraint front end discriminating sensor (3).
    5. Remove the inflatable restraint front end discriminating sensor mounting fasteners (2).
    6. Remove the inflatable restraint front end discriminating sensor (3) from the radiator support.

    Installation Procedure

    1. Install the inflatable restraint front end discriminating sensor (3) to the radiator support.
    Notice: Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.
    2. Install the inflatable restraint front end discriminating sensor mounting fasteners (2).
    Tighten
    Tighten fastener to 11 N•m (98 lb in).
    3. Connect the inflatable restraint front end discriminating sensor harness connector (4) to the inflatable restraint front end discriminating sensor.
    4. Install the Connector Position Assurance (CPA) (5) to the inflatable restraint front end discriminating sensor harness connector (4).
    5. Enable the frontal SIR system. Refer to Enabling the SIR System .
    © 2013 General Motors Corporation. All rights reserved.


    Air Cleaner Assembly Replacement

    1. Removal Procedure
    2. Remove the intake air duct (1) clamp (5) from the MAF sensor (4).
    3. Lift the air cleaner element assembly (1) off of the air inlet assembly (2) locating pins.
    4. Slide the air cleaner element assembly (1) toward the fender to unseat the locating tab of the air cleaner element assembly (1) from the slot of the air inlet assembly (2).
    5. Remove or disconnect the IAT sensor.
    6. Remove the air cleaner element.
    7. Remove the air cleaner element assembly.

    Installation Procedure

    8. Install the air cleaner element.
    9. Ensure the rubber locating grommets are secure in the bottom of the air cleaner element assembly (1).
    10. Slide locating tab on bottom of the air cleaner element assembly (1) down into the slot on the top of air inlet assembly (2).
    11. Press the air cleaner element assembly (1) down onto the locating pins ensuring the locating grommets are secure in the bottom of the air cleaner element assembly (1).
    12. Install or connect the Intake Air Temperature sensor.
    13. Notice: Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.
    14. Install the intake air duct (1) to the MAF sensor (4).
    15. Tighten
    16. Tighten the clamp (5) assembly to 3.5 N•m (31 lb in).

    © 2013 General Motors Corporation. All rights reserved.

    Engine Coolant Fan Replacement
    Removal Procedure


    1. Remove the hood latch bracket. Refer to Hood Primary Latch Replacement in Body Front End.
    2. Drain the engine coolant. Refer to Cooling System Draining and Filling
    3. Remove the headlamps. Refer to Headlamp Replacement .
    4. Remove the condenser mounting bolts.
    5. Remove the radiator brackets.
    6. Disconnect the upper engine oil cooler hose from the radiator.
    7. Remove the air cleaner. Refer to Air Cleaner Assembly Replacement
    8. Disconnect the lower radiator hose from the radiator.
    9. Tilt the radiator forward.
    10. Disconnect the electrical connectors from the cooling fans.
    11. Disconnect the generator inlet cooler hose from the radiator.
    12. Remove the cooling fan assembly from the radiator.
    13. Remove the radiator.
    14. Remove the fan retaining nut (5) from the motors (2).
    15. Remove the fan (4) from the motor shaft
    16. Remove the motor retaining screws (3).
    17. Remove the motor (2) from the shroud (1).

    Installation Procedure

    Notice: Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.
    18. Install the motor (2) to the shroud (1).
    19. Install the motor retaining screws (3).
    20. Tighten
    21. Tighten the fan motor mounting screws to 6 N•m(53 lb in).
    22. Install the fan (4) to the motor shaft
    23. Install the fan retaining nut (5) to the motors (2).
    24. Tighten
    25. Tighten the fan retaining nut to 6 N•m (53 lb in).
    26. Install the cooling fan assembly to the radiator.

    27. Install the radiator to vehicle.
    28. Connect the generator inlet cooler line to the radiator.
    29. Connect the electrical connectors to the cooling fans.
    30. Connect the lower radiator hose to the engine.
    31. Install the air cleaner. Refer to Air Cleaner Assembly Replacement
    32. Connect the upper engine oil cooler hose to the radiator.
    33. Install the radiator brackets.
    34. Install the condenser mounting bolts.
    35. Tighten
    36. Tighten the condenser mounting bolts to 13 N•m (10 lb ft).
    37. Install the hood latch bracket. Refer to Hood Primary Latch Replacement
    38. Install the headlamps. Refer to Headlamp Replacement .
    39. Fill the cooling system. Refer to Cooling System Draining and Filling .
    © 2013 General Motors Corporation. All rights reserved.
    CadillacLuke24 likes this.

  7. #6
    bigtone's Avatar
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    Re: Losing 2 gallons plus a day of coolant....head gasket?

    Before you replace the radiator, you should know that when the headgasket went on my 98 Deville, I was finding coolant in that same area. It was coming out the overflow,and I believe some type of forward draft was collecting on the pass side radiator, near the upper hose. I also was going thru huge amounts of coolant. Do you also have HG symptoms?

  8. #7
    Slipgate is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Losing 2 gallons plus a day of coolant....head gasket?

    Thanks for the instructions!

    I don't really have any HG symptoms. The car runs under 200 most of the time and never above 220. The system still seems to build up some pressure when I take off the cap it has some pressure in it. My cap is pretty beat up though maybe it is just a coolant cap - that would sure be nice!

    I am getting worse gas mileage lately. I normally get close to 21 overall but since I have been running the air it has dropped to under 19. I don't remember it being this bad last year. The power is as good as it always has been. I'll see if my auto parts store rents the exhaust gas test kits and see what it shows. I am not sure how accurate it will be with the rate I am adding coolant.

    ----------

    Will this detector work? Is this what they rent?

    http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-75500-Co...productDetails

  9. #8
    SUPER LAC DEVILLE's Avatar
    SUPER LAC DEVILLE is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slipgate View Post
    Thanks for the instructions!

    I don't really have any HG symptoms. The car runs under 200 most of the time and never above 220. The system still seems to build up some pressure when I take off the cap it has some pressure in it. My cap is pretty beat up though maybe it is just a coolant cap - that would sure be nice!

    I am getting worse gas mileage lately. I normally get close to 21 overall but since I have been running the air it has dropped to under 19. I don't remember it being this bad last year. The power is as good as it always has been. I'll see if my auto parts store rents the exhaust gas test kits and see what it shows. I am not sure how accurate it will be with the rate I am adding coolant.
    I don't see anything wrong with any of this... Your temps are actually where there suppose to be... I'm guessing you're driving short trips (under 10/15 miles) if your temps sit below 200 at times

    The coolant system is suppose to build up in pressure... No Pressure would be something to be concerned with... And occasionally when temps rise enough, they're will be some Coolant "Purge" from that hose by the radiator cap

    (I'm actually thinking that's where my coolant is going... Out that purge line)

    But, Maybe your gas is contaminated if u see a decrease in Instant MPG???

    My 98 Deville gets 15/16mpg instant and 15/18 mpg averages city/hwy driving

    Maybe Add A Bottle of Chevron With Techron ???


    Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

  10. #9
    Submariner409's Avatar
    Submariner409 is offline If it won't run, chrome it
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    Re: Losing 2 gallons plus a day of coolant....head gasket?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slipgate View Post
    I don't really have any HG symptoms. The car runs under 200 most of the time and never above 220. The system still seems to build up some pressure when I take off the cap it has some pressure in it. My cap is pretty beat up though maybe it is just a coolant cap - that would sure be nice!
    Where's the beef ???? Your temps are dead nuts normal, your cooling system is SUPPOSED to pressurize to 16 psi - that pressure is what raises the boiling point of 50/50 coolant from 221 degrees to 265 degrees.

    I strongly suggest that you do some study in the 3 or 4 cooling system sticky threads at the top of the Engines; Northstar Performance page. From your posts it looks like you don't have the foggiest idea of how and why a cooling system works, much less your Deville Northstar system.

    If the radiator end tank is leaking, nothing short of radiator replacement will slow/stop your 2 gallons a day (!!!!!) coolant loss - test kit be damned.

    A "2 mpg" fuel consumption change - for the worse - is perfectly normal in city/suburban driving when (if) you use the A/C - that system takes 5 to 8 horsepower to run, particularly at stop & go speeds. Some drivers never see a change because they blindly leave the HVAC in AUTO and happily drive along, sumerfallwinterspring, running HVAC everything and wearing it all out.

  11. #10
    basscatt's Avatar
    basscatt is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Losing 2 gallons plus a day of coolant....head gasket?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slipgate View Post
    Thanks for the instructions!

    I don't really have any HG symptoms. The car runs under 200 most of the time and never above 220. The system still seems to build up some pressure when I take off the cap it has some pressure in it. My cap is pretty beat up though maybe it is just a coolant cap - that would sure be nice!

    I am getting worse gas mileage lately. I normally get close to 21 overall but since I have been running the air it has dropped to under 19. I don't remember it being this bad last year. The power is as good as it always has been. I'll see if my auto parts store rents the exhaust gas test kits and see what it shows. I am not sure how accurate it will be with the rate I am adding coolant.

    ----------

    Will this detector work? Is this what they rent?

    http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-75500-Co...productDetails
    -----------------------
    YEP - that is the BLOCK TEST KIT - well - at least most of it -

    the kit you "rent for free" also has a hand pump -
    rather than relaying on engine vacuum -

    but like the others have said -
    you don't have any symptoms of HG failure -
    so just verify it IS the radiator - replace it - and be done with it -

    Spectra brand radiators are good replacements -
    and can be had at a great price - with free shipping -
    around $125 -

  12. #11
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    Re: Losing 2 gallons plus a day of coolant....head gasket?

    Quote Originally Posted by SUPER LAC DEVILLE View Post
    I don't see anything wrong with any of this... Your temps are actually where there suppose to be... I'm guessing you're driving short trips (under 10/15 miles) if your temps sit below 200 at times

    The coolant system is suppose to build up in pressure... No Pressure would be something to be concerned with... And occasionally when temps rise enough, they're will be some Coolant "Purge" from that hose by the radiator cap

    (I'm actually thinking that's where my coolant is going... Out that purge line)

    But, Maybe your gas is contaminated if u see a decrease in Instant MPG???

    My 98 Deville gets 15/16mpg instant and 15/18 mpg averages city/hwy driving

    Maybe Add A Bottle of Chevron With Techron ???


    Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
    SON OF A GUN!

    SUPER LAC is learning!

    Don't let it go to your head

    And keep it up!
    basscatt likes this.

  13. #12
    Slipgate is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Losing 2 gallons plus a day of coolant....head gasket?

    Wth, over? I never said anything but the radiator was wrong with it! It was only after bigtone suggested his 98 HG went in the same fashion that I mused perhaps I'd do the gas test for good measure. I mentioned the pressure since even with it leaking and 2 gallons low, the system still holds some pressure. I thought that surprising and worthy of mention. Sheesh!

  14. #13
    basscatt's Avatar
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    Re: Losing 2 gallons plus a day of coolant....head gasket?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slipgate View Post
    Wth, over? I never said anything but the radiator was wrong with it! It was only after bigtone suggested his 98 HG went in the same fashion that I mused perhaps I'd do the gas test for good measure. I mentioned the pressure since even with it leaking and 2 gallons low, the system still holds some pressure. I thought that surprising and worthy of mention. Sheesh!
    ------------------------------
    I must have missed something -

  15. #14
    Slipgate is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Losing 2 gallons plus a day of coolant....head gasket?

    lol - well the good news is I got in my brake booster for the 66 Impala today and might actually get the brakes working this week . I THINK I found most of the vacuum leaks in the engine and plugged them . AND I found out in MD if I register the Impala as "historic" it does not require an inspection (lower insurance and fees too!) ! AND, I just finished a triple of brandy....

  16. #15
    basscatt's Avatar
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    Re: Losing 2 gallons plus a day of coolant....head gasket?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slipgate View Post
    lol - well the good news is I got in my brake booster for the 66 Impala today and might actually get the brakes working this week . I THINK I found most of the vacuum leaks in the engine and plugged them . AND I found out in MD if I register the Impala as "historic" it does not require an inspection (lower insurance and fees too!) ! AND, I just finished a triple of brandy....
    ------------------------------------
    OK - well - that clears EVERYTHING up - I guess -

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