Need advise FAST - War with Caddy dealership over halfcase reseal
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1985-1992 Fleetwood, 1993 Sixty Special, All FWD Forum Discussion, Need advise FAST - War with Caddy dealership over halfcase reseal in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; I have a 99 Deville Concours with 90,000 miles. Three weeks ago, I had the local Cadillac dealership fix the ...
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    VOATMJ1 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Need advise FAST - War with Caddy dealership over halfcase reseal

    I have a 99 Deville Concours with 90,000 miles. Three weeks ago, I had the local Cadillac dealership fix the dreaded half case seal oil leak. They fixed that, then I get a call and they say I have a coolant leak. Knowing that these engines run on the warm side, I said yeah go ahead an fix that, as I did not want and head gaskets failure issues and overheating which the car NEVER has. The fixed the supposed coolant leak, installed a new water pump (pre-caution) a new thermostat, hoses and seals. Total bill....$4,600!!

    Now 3 weeks later this past Monday, I was sitting in the drive-thru, it was a warm 90 degree day, had the A/C on and I heard a "ding" I looked and the DIC said "Engine Hot - A/C is Off" I looked at the temp gauge (being that I have analog gauges) and it was on the edge of the red line for overheating. I started driving and it went back down to mid-range which is normal. I drove straight to the Caddy dealer and the overheat message was still on there and they seen it.

    I get a call yesterday and they say the engine got so hot, it blew the head gaskets and may have warped the heads, and they recommend another engine.

    Here is my question, they worked on the cooling system just three weeks ago for which I NEVER had any cooling issues. Should they be held accountable for this as they state they did not work the top part of the engine ref their work in the cooling. I have a meeting this afternoon with the service manager, what knowledge or what can I go in and challenge them on? Am I stuck?? Sorry for the length. Thanks!!

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    Submariner409's Avatar
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    Re: Need advise FAST - War with Caddy dealership

    Hard shot to call - is there some sort of warranty or words on the first repair invoice ?? Or any statements about repair warranty or time periods ? 3 weeks is less than a 30 day repair or parts warranty .........

    ......... and did the dealership remove the heads as part of the engine work ??? - because if they did, it would stand to reason that the block was inserted - all 20 head bolt holes - and if it wasn't, the problem sits squarely in their lap. Gaskets/bolts on the invoice ??

    The overheat - block - heads thing. The engines were designed to run without coolant for 50 miles (with decreased power due to cylinder dropouts) so a simple overheat would hurt exactly nothing.

    During the 3 weeks - because of the extensive work performed - did you do underhood checks of fluid levels every couple of days until you were satisfied with the work done and a lack of fluids loss ? Specifically, did you perform frequent coolant level checks - as an 8 month CF member you must have read up on the procedures for cooling system checks and maintenance.

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    Slipgate is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Need advise FAST - War with Caddy dealership

    What did you get for $4600? Was that just for the oil seals and the water pump? That car is barely worth $4600 and the HG is going to be another $3-4k. I am not sure what you can challenge other then to claim the HG failure is their fault since they didn't fix the overheating issue properly. First you need to verify that the HG is indeed bad (block gas test). I think you will lose this though. It might be time to cut your losses.

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    Re: Need advise FAST - War with Caddy dealership over halfcase reseal

    Quote Originally Posted by VOATMJ1 View Post
    I have a 99 Deville Concours with 90,000 miles. Three weeks ago, I had the local Cadillac dealership fix the dreaded half case seal oil leak. They fixed that, then I get a call and they say I have a coolant leak. Knowing that these engines run on the warm side, I said yeah go ahead an fix that, as I did not want and head gaskets failure issues and overheating which the car NEVER has. The fixed the supposed coolant leak, installed a new water pump (pre-caution) a new thermostat, hoses and seals. Total bill....$4,600!!

    Now 3 weeks later this past Monday, I was sitting in the drive-thru, it was a warm 90 degree day, had the A/C on and I heard a "ding" I looked and the DIC said "Engine Hot - A/C is Off" I looked at the temp gauge (being that I have analog gauges) and it was on the edge of the red line for overheating. I started driving and it went back down to mid-range which is normal. I drove straight to the Caddy dealer and the overheat message was still on there and they seen it.

    I get a call yesterday and they say the engine got so hot, it blew the head gaskets and may have warped the heads, and they recommend another engine.

    Here is my question, they worked on the cooling system just three weeks ago for which I NEVER had any cooling issues. Should they be held accountable for this as they state they did not work the top part of the engine ref their work in the cooling. I have a meeting this afternoon with the service manager, what knowledge or what can I go in and challenge them on? Am I stuck?? Sorry for the length. Thanks!!
    Im no Attorney but I studied a bit of civil and criminal law for 8 years so let me answer in this perspective...

    In Short, Yes they're liable... if the service records indicate they worked on the coolant system

    let me guess... No Coolant in the coolant system / water pump failed / hoses not installed or fastened correctly ????

    How did they determine or diagnose that there was so much damage to your engine anyways???

    If one of the above failed, I doubt that one overheat caused such damage as to permanently destroy your engine... Ive seen the same message on my IC at 265*, and my engine is fine.

    BUT, if there is such Damage... I would say their liable, being that they talked you into repairing the coolant system that wasn't damaged in the first place, and it FAILED within the next few days or so, costing you thousands to repair... I'm pretty sure a judge would agree that an over heat after a "COOLANT SYSTEM REPAIR" causing such damage was due to a failed coolant system fix, which you say never had an issue to begin with... courts generally boil everything down... Was it broke? Yes/No... Did you fix it? Yes/No... Did the repair Fix or Cause the Damage? etc...

    Aside of that they will try to say they're not liable or that your negligence caused the damage... and talk you into servicing the vehicle at your expense, but keep in mind it doesn't matter what they say unless they agree to fix it at no expense to u... As long as you intend to follow through with legal recourse

    I would definitely have a serious discussion with the manager and whoever his/her supervisor is... id even bring an attorney (or 2) with me because of the damage and expenses involved... this is something you want as much documentation as possible about in the event is does require legal recourse...

    Other CF members may have a different answer or approach but in the Perspective Circumstances you described... Id be seriously considering the worse case scenario and legal recourse... A "New" Refurbished Engine Install will be costly through a dealership to say the least... and personally, if u decided or have to go that route... DO NOT LET THEM DO IT !!!

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    Re: Need advise FAST - War with Caddy dealership over halfcase reseal

    Quote Originally Posted by SUPER LAC DEVILLE View Post

    I would definitely have a serious discussion with the manager and whoever his/her supervisor is... id even bring an attorney (or 2) with me because of the damage and expenses involved... this is something you want as much documentation as possible about in the event is does require legal recourse...

    Other CF members may have a different answer or approach but in the Perspective Circumstances you described... Id be seriously considering the worse case scenario and legal recourse... A "New" Refurbished Engine Install will be costly through a dealership to say the least... and personally, if u decided or have to go that route... DO NOT LET THEM DO IT !!!
    I agree.
    Hire an attorney now.
    Never speak to them without the attorney

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    Re: Need advise FAST - War with Caddy dealership over halfcase reseal

    I would think they would only be liable if the new waterpump, belt or tensioner was the cause of the overheating.
    Did you check those things yourself?
    If you cause a big enough stink and send a letter to the corporate office (or have an attorney do it), they may take care of it.
    I would get a second opinion. Could be something other than HG's.

    It's not impossible for the dealer to sell you unnecessary repairs.

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    Re: Need advise FAST - War with Caddy dealership over halfcase reseal

    WOW! For $4600 you could have put a new motor in it in the first place, or at very least had this one completely rebuilt. Good luck in trying to get them to pay for anything, lawyer or no lawyer, you can't prove anything. BOHICA!

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    Re: Need advise FAST - War with Caddy dealership over halfcase reseal

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    BOHICA!
    That's messed up!!!

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    Re: Need advise FAST - War with Caddy dealership over halfcase reseal

    Thanks for the advice. To answer some of the questions, yes, I check my vehicle once a week for fluids, tires etc. I am paranoid that way and everything was up to snuff. I even put a white piece of paper on the garage floor to check for any leaks, oil or coolant, and for the three weeks that I had it out of the shop, not one drop from anything was on the paper. So leak free.

    When the dealership called me, they did not state there was no coolant or anything like that, just that they did no work on the top part of the engine ref the cooling repair. Seems funny to me that right after they fix a supposed coolant leak that the car overheats to the point I need a new engine??!!

    They did offer me a used engine with 80,000 miles on it and a 1 year warranty....for $3,200 installed.

    Depending what they say, I may take it to another Cadillac dealer in another state (I live on the border of Iowa/Nebraska/Missouri) and see what they say the issue is. Car never went into camel mode and was still pulling strong and running smooth. The car just shut down the A/C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VOATMJ1 View Post
    Thanks for the advice. To answer some of the questions, yes, I check my vehicle once a week for fluids, tires etc. I am paranoid that way and everything was up to snuff. I even put a white piece of paper on the garage floor to check for any leaks, oil or coolant, and for the three weeks that I had it out of the shop, not one drop from anything was on the paper. So leak free.

    When the dealership called me, they did not state there was no coolant or anything like that, just that they did no work on the top part of the engine ref the cooling repair. Seems funny to me that right after they fix a supposed coolant leak that the car overheats to the point I need a new engine??!!

    They did offer me a used engine with 80,000 miles on it and a 1 year warranty....for $3,200 installed.

    Depending what they say, I may take it to another Cadillac dealer in another state (I live on the border of Iowa/Nebraska/Missouri) and see what they say the issue is. Car never went into camel mode and was still pulling strong and running smooth. The car just shut down the A/C.
    They want your engine

    Tellm to kick rocks

    You jus spent the money it takes to have a refurbished engine installed and now they want to sell u one

    I call BS

    Take your car to another dealership and have them check your "Repairs" for faults that caused the overheat that shut your AC down, which really isn't extreme enough to warp your heads

    I'd still walk in there with a couple lawyers and ask for a resolution that doesn't cost u...

    A side note:

    Unlike Criminal law where you're innocent until proven guilty,,, Civil law requires the defendant to Disprove an Allegation of Guilt requiring Damages be Paid

    JS


    Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

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    Re: Need advise FAST - War with Caddy dealership over halfcase reseal

    Quote Originally Posted by VOATMJ1 View Post
    I have a 99 Deville Concours with 90,000 miles. Three weeks ago, I had the local Cadillac dealership fix the dreaded half case seal oil leak. They fixed that, then I get a call and they say I have a coolant leak. Knowing that these engines run on the warm side, I said yeah go ahead an fix that, as I did not want and head gaskets failure issues and overheating which the car NEVER has. The fixed the supposed coolant leak, installed a new water pump (pre-caution) a new thermostat, hoses and seals. Total bill....$4,600!!

    Now 3 weeks later this past Monday, I was sitting in the drive-thru, it was a warm 90 degree day, had the A/C on and I heard a "ding" I looked and the DIC said "Engine Hot - A/C is Off" I looked at the temp gauge (being that I have analog gauges) and it was on the edge of the red line for overheating. I started driving and it went back down to mid-range which is normal. I drove straight to the Caddy dealer and the overheat message was still on there and they seen it.

    I get a call yesterday and they say the engine got so hot, it blew the head gaskets and may have warped the heads, and they recommend another engine.

    Here is my question, they worked on the cooling system just three weeks ago for which I NEVER had any cooling issues. Should they be held accountable for this as they state they did not work the top part of the engine ref their work in the cooling. I have a meeting this afternoon with the service manager, what knowledge or what can I go in and challenge them on? Am I stuck?? Sorry for the length. Thanks!!
    -------------------------------
    I get a call yesterday and they say the engine got so hot,
    it blew the head gaskets and may have warped the heads,
    and they recommend another engine.


    I will start with two words you should repeat to the service manager -

    CAMEL MODE -

    that SHOULD knock most of his argument out of the park -

    this engine was designed to be able to withstand driving for 50 miles -
    WITHOUT ANY COOLANT - AND WITHOUT ANY DAMAGE -
    SUPER LAC DEVILLE likes this.

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    Re: Need advise FAST - War with Caddy dealership over halfcase reseal

    Quote Originally Posted by VOATMJ1 View Post
    They did offer me a used engine with 80,000 miles on it and a 1 year warranty....for $3,200 installed.

    Depending what they say, I may take it to another Cadillac dealer in another state (I live on the border of Iowa/Nebraska/Missouri) and see what they say the issue is. Car never went into camel mode and was still pulling strong and running smooth. The car just shut down the A/C.
    For about $1000 less you can get it repaired at Midwest Cadillac Repair in Palatine Ill. (if you can get it here and are willing to travel that far). Joe has done well over 200 of them (maybe close to 300 by now). It will be better than a used engine because you can be sure it will never fail again. A used one will be a crap shoot.

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    Re: Need advise FAST - War with Caddy dealership over halfcase reseal

    They (service advisor) did not know what camel mode was, and said no way I could drive 50 miles with no coolant. I showed him in my owner’s manual in B/W, that it could and he was surprised. I left him scratching is head and spoke with the service manager who did know about the camel mode and was very knowledgeable about these cars. After all of the fighting and death threats were over, they finally agreed to put in an engine with a 2 year warranty, AND agreed to do the half case seal before installation as a precaution against oil leaks. They also gave me a car to use (for free) until I get mine back. So in the end, I guess that I am satisfied...that is until I get my car back and see if they did a good job!

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    Re: Need advise FAST - War with Caddy dealership over halfcase reseal

    Speak softly and carry a big stick ............ in this case, a bit of knowledge is worth its weight in gold - isn't it ?

    I would guess that you'll get a decent replacement job - they know that you know too much.

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    Re: Need advise FAST - War with Caddy dealership over halfcase reseal

    WOW! I'm shocked.

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