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Could you help me with this car please? 1993 Fleetwood

8K views 48 replies 9 participants last post by  DReffects 
#1 ·
Hey Guys,

as some of you might have noticed i am wanting to buy a fleetwood. I am currently looking at a '93 "Fleetwood Sixty Special" with the 4.9 V8 Engine. From what i understand this car is based on the 91-93 Fleetwood - or is it based on the DeVille? If so, what's the major difference between the "Sixty Special" and the "Fleetwood"? It seems to have the new '93 Fleetwood Exterieur, but has odd looking seats (i don't see any electronic adjusters).

So is this a RWD Car and has the smaller 205.6 in (5,220 mm) body or the '93 Fleetwood length of 225.0 in (5,720 mm)?

The VIN is as follows: 1G6CB53B1P4220612

Could you also please give me some information on the Fuel Economy of the 4.9l V8 engine and the ride itself? I've driven a '95 Fleetwood Brougham RWD, it was awesome and smooth - that's the kinda ride i am looking for.

The car is equipped with a moonroof - are there any known issues (both in terms of water and noise)?

Here are some pics - what do you think?



















Any idea what those tiny pipes on the rear are?!

THANKS GUYS!!
 
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#2 ·
The Deville and Fleetwood were essentially the same car from '85-'92. The Fleetwood had different trim and equipment. The Fleetwood Sixty Special and Sixty Special Ultra were the top trim levels for the Fleetwood.

In '93, the RWD Fleetwood was introduced, and the FWD Fleetwood Sixty Special was just called the Sixty Special. Same exact car, Without the Fleetwood emblems.

The car in your pictures is FWD, and has the 4.9. If it's a '93, it's technically a "Cadillac Sixty Special, not a Fleetwood. Soft ride, decent power, but a very different driving experience than a '93-'96 RWD Fleetwood.

The car pictured has 6 way power seats, and manual recline. It does not have the optional 22 way power seats. The controls are on each front door arm rest.
 
#3 ·
Re: Could you help me with this car please? :)

Oh I see - so the '92 Fleetwood became the '93 Sixty Special without any change in motor, gearbox and stuff? So we're talking about the 5,2meter long one :)
In what terms would the driving experience be different? I know that FWD cars behave differently of course - what i mean is in terms of the 'floating' like experience from the RWD Fleetwood i drove :)

Thanks!
 
#4 ·
Yes, no mechanical changes.

I guess how much difference you feel depends on how much you pay attention to the car while driving. The biggest difference to most people would probably be the floatier ride of the RWD car. RWD and FWD vehicles handle differently, the RWD car is also significantly larger and heavier, which changes things.

I know these cars are scarce in your part of the world, but if you have a chance to drive one of the FWD cars, do it. That way you'll have an Idea of how they feel.

You drive a 300, right?
 
#5 ·
Re: Could you help me with this car please? :)

Yep, I drive a 2012 Chrysler 300 at the moment. It's an european edition though. This means: a bit harsher suspension (imo a change for the worse^^)

Anything to pay attention to when going for a test drive with the FWD? Do you have experience with the moonroof and fuel economy?

:)
 
#6 ·
Re: Could you help me with this car please? :)

the 4.9 motor was one of Cadillac's BEST -

I had a 1995 Deville with the 4.9 - one of the BEST cars I ever owned -
it is somewhat larger than the 93 Deville -

I put 176,000 miles on it before getting hit - and totaled -

Several times per year I made the 400 mile trip -
between Minneapolis and Chicago -
I averaged 28.3 to 28.8 MPG -
cruise control set to 74 - AC on - windows closed -

the only thing to be concerned about with the moon roof -
is clogged drain tubes - there are 4 of them - one at each corner -
 
#8 ·
Re: Could you help me with this car please? :)

These era Devilles were the first FWD car that I could tolerate. They have a big solid floaty feel that I like; not like the 80's GM FWD cars (with hard seats without springs). That's a nice looking Sixty Special. I doubt that you will consider it a cheap FWD econo-box if you get to drive it..
 
#10 ·
Re: Could you help me with this car please? :)

I doubt that you will consider it a cheap FWD econo-box if you get to drive it..
What do you mean by that? :)

the 4.9 motor was one of Cadillac's BEST - I had a 1995 Deville with the 4.9 - one of the BEST cars I ever owned - it is somewhat larger than the 93 Deville -
I put 176,000 miles on it before getting hit - and totaled -
Several times per year I made the 400 mile trip -
between Minneapolis and Chicago -
I averaged 28.3 to 28.8 MPG -
cruise control set to 74 - AC on - windows closed -

the only thing to be concerned about with the moon roof -
is clogged drain tubes - there are 4 of them - one at each corner -
Sorry to hear about that accident. That MPGs are AWESOME for such an engine!

Thanks for all the input! So basically this car can be considered? :)
 
#11 ·
Re: Could you help me with this car please? :)

What ARE the things on the bumper?!
-------------------------
What ARE the things on the bumper?!
I'm a little surprised at you guys -
I THOUGHT you knew everything about your Cadillacs -

but - this IS an export model -
so I can understand SOME of you not recognizing this early-version option -

still don't get it? :suspense::crowded:


this is the FIRST-GENERATION - RPO code - UD7 - :hmm:

-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

REAR PARKING ASSIST / PARKING ASSIST/OBSTACLE DETECTION SENSOR:histeric::histeric::histeric:


WHAT? - :bigroll:

OK - DON'T BELIEVE ME - see if I care - :rolleyes::lildevil::hide:



----------

What do you mean by that? :)


Sorry to hear about that accident. That MPGs are AWESOME for such an engine!

Thanks for all the input! So basically this car can be considered? :)
----------------------------
So basically this car can be considered? :)
ABSOLUTELY -
and it is the BEST car you have found yet - :thumbsup:
 
#13 ·
Re: Could you help me with this car please? :)

Too bad somebody yanked the Bose stereo out. They can be found of course over here with a great deal of patience. I would try to find one myself just to put it back the way it was from the factory. Oh and consider a set of whitewall tires. They do much better with the era that car was built.
 
#14 ·
Re: Could you help me with this car please? :)

Too bad somebody yanked the Bose stereo out. They can be found of course over here with a great deal of patience. I would try to find one myself just to put it back the way it was from the factory. Oh and consider a set of whitewall tires. They do much better with the era that car was built.
Talked to the dealer - he told me the previous owner tried to install an aftermarked stereo but failed. the original bose stereo is in the trunk :D

and it is the BEST car you have found yet - :thumbsup:
hehe it most certainly is the least expensive yet... Sort of fancy the ultra-retro-looking pdc things at the back. looks like the '60s batman is about to unleash one hell of a oil slick out of them ;)

I'll update you guys on my progress! thank you very much!
 
#15 ·
Re: Could you help me with this car please? :)

Well, i took a look at the car today. I took a lot of pictures. The outside of the car is in a bit of a rough condition, lots of scratches and stuff, but nothing unfixable. on the inside the car is in really good condition, it most certainly needs to be cleaned though. Unfortunately i've noticed the following defects:

  • "AC SERVICE" Lamp is glowing, Air Conditioning does not turn on. There's also a strange modification to the entire climate system: The previous owner installed a flipswitch in the glove box where you can turn the ventilation completely on and off. according to the dealer this was installed because the ventilation "drains the battery too fast". I don't quite get this... When the switch is turned on, ventilation works normally apart from the non functioning AC. I guess there's no way to check if it simply needs a refill or if the compressor is gone...
  • "SERVICE SSS" lamp is glowing. (The Speed-Sensitive-Steering) Steering was fine during a test ride, yet did not seem to adjust to speed. I guess it's stuck at a default setting. Or could this be a hidden suspension issue?
  • Power pull down trunk motor isn't working (according to the dealer it is a new motor but not wired correctly) - i don't quite care about that...
  • The right fender has a 5 inch long crack in it. As the fender is completely made out of plastic i guess i could simply glue this back together?
  • The factory radio is gone and someone has seriously messed up the wires :( I was unable to locate the Bose AMP - or isn't there one?
  • The engine was running very uneasy while the car was idle on the parking lot (please see video)
  • There was some serious noise coming from the bottom of the car, i guess the exhaust system is somehow messed up (please listen to the video)

Normally i would walk away here. But the price is REALLY good. I'd be willing to invest ~1500-2000 bucks into this car but i am very unsure if it's really worth it. I see two major problems:

  • Air Conditioning
  • Rumbling Noises & uneasy engine

Could you please give me your thoughts about repairing those systems and what kind of price range we are talking about here? The car seems to be a somewhat hot item, the dealer showed me the stats from the auto-trading website, there are tons of interested parties ;)

Video of the rumbling noise


Video of the unsteady engine


Images (all are high res, please right-click and use 'Display Image' [firefox] to get the full size image)

What's that plastic Stuff all the wires go to? Is this by design?


Engine - any idea about the yellow grease on the alternator?:


Trunk with a Pioneer Radio:


Cockpit with wires... ahh^^


Rear Seats in great condition, unfortunately no cup holders


"There, I've fixed it...." That's one hell of a way to replace a broken rear view mirror...


Cracks...


...and DEEP Scratches (i guess i'd have to do some bondo magic...)


...and some more (rear bumper)


The Crack in the right fender


A look at the Car (The Sebring's mine btw)


Sooo... what do you guys think?
 
#16 ·
Re: Could you help me with this car please? :)

Well, i took a look at the car today. I took a lot of pictures. The outside of the car is in a bit of a rough condition, lots of scratches and stuff, but nothing unfixable. on the inside the car is in really good condition, it most certainly needs to be cleaned though. Unfortunately i've noticed the following defects:

  • "AC SERVICE" Lamp is glowing, Air Conditioning does not turn on. There's also a strange modification to the entire climate system: The previous owner installed a flipswitch in the glove box where you can turn the ventilation completely on and off. according to the dealer this was installed because the ventilation "drains the battery too fast". I don't quite get this... When the switch is turned on, ventilation works normally apart from the non functioning AC. I guess there's no way to check if it simply needs a refill or if the compressor is gone...
  • "SERVICE SSS" lamp is glowing. (The Speed-Sensitive-Steering) Steering was fine during a test ride, yet did not seem to adjust to speed. I guess it's stuck at a default setting. Or could this be a hidden suspension issue?
  • Power pull down trunk motor isn't working (according to the dealer it is a new motor but not wired correctly) - i don't quite care about that...
  • The right fender has a 5 inch long crack in it. As the fender is completely made out of plastic i guess i could simply glue this back together?
  • The factory radio is gone and someone has seriously messed up the wires :( I was unable to locate the Bose AMP - or isn't there one?
  • The engine was running very uneasy while the car was idle on the parking lot (please see video)
  • There was some serious noise coming from the bottom of the car, i guess the exhaust system is somehow messed up (please listen to the video)

Normally i would walk away here. But the price is REALLY good. I'd be willing to invest ~1500-2000 bucks into this car but i am very unsure if it's really worth it. I see two major problems:

  • Air Conditioning
  • Rumbling Noises & uneasy engine

Could you please give me your thoughts about repairing those systems and what kind of price range we are talking about here? The car seems to be a somewhat hot item, the dealer showed me the stats from the auto-trading website, there are tons of interested parties ;)

Video of the rumbling noise


Video of the unsteady engine


Images (all are high res, please right-click and use 'Display Image' [firefox] to get the full size image)

What's that plastic Stuff all the wires go to? Is this by design?


Engine - any idea about the yellow grease on the alternator?:


Trunk with a Pioneer Radio:


Cockpit with wires... ahh^^


Rear Seats in great condition, unfortunately no cup holders


"There, I've fixed it...." That's one hell of a way to replace a broken rear view mirror...


Cracks...


...and DEEP Scratches (i guess i'd have to do some bondo magic...)


...and some more (rear bumper)


The Crack in the right fender


A look at the Car (The Sebring's mine btw)


Sooo... what do you guys think?
--------------------------------------------
the body work wouldn't bother me -
HOWEVER -
all that KUSTOM HACKERY scares the CRAP out of me -

keep looking - you WILL find the RIGHT car -
THIS one just isn't it -
 
#18 ·
I hope it is cheap because it has had some rough care and stereo hackery is usually a deal breaker for me. Whoever cracked the fender didn't care about this car. Those noises underneath don't sound good either. I can just imagine how much attention they paid to the regular maintenance. I would gamble $500 on it because I could fix it but I wouldn't recommend it to the average Joe unless he wants a project car to learn diagnostics and mechanic work on. I wish someone would save it though but the person that hacked it deserves to lose his shirt on this car.
 
#20 ·
Ok guys, I've gambled. Not 500$ but 3258$ but keep in mind that a top condition Fleetwood is rare AND expensive in Germany. They go for 15.000 - 17.000 USD... So i guess i have a large margin for repairs ;) I am not afraid to dig deep into service and repair manuals (a ~200 pages strong repair manual is included with the car as well a document that appears to be a 'full' service history)

It doesn't look too bad but you will have to spend some money fixing stuff if you get it.

The only thing I can think of for the switch for the climate control on the glovebox is if they fan runs all the time and that is just to turn it off. If it's more then that I'd be worried about what was hacked up. The radio wires like that, or any aftermarket radio is enough to make me walk away from a car.

In the video underneath it sounds like it just has an exhaust leak somewhere and a loose exhaust shield. Part of the sound under the hood is power steering pump or maybe alternator whine but for the engine to not run more smoothly there should be a trouble code to say what's going on. It could be something as simple as a vacuum hose problem or needing the throttle body cleaning done.

Cracks in the front fenders aren't unusual for those cars.

Id still like to know what those things are sticking out of the bumper?

Really, the only way for you to decide on the handling of both those styles of Cars, asin the Deville/Fleetwood and the bigger one, is to drive both and see what one you like the best. They are both going to be floatier then your 300 is.

Oh, and it is R12 unless someone changed it before.
Thanks, that actually reassured me somewhat in terms of exhaust and the fender :) The Pipes are indeed park distance sensor. I'll stick with my "Oil Slick System for advanced Superheroes" explaination anyway ;)

Ok, what's next now? I'd like to take a look at an original cadillac bose radio - could you point me in the right direction for this car? I found ton's on ebay but am unsure what kind of radio would be the right one.

For spare parts, rocker panels, fenders etc - are the '93 deville or '92 Fleetwood parts 100% identical? (from what i understand this car is actually the '92 fleetwood with a new name...)

THANKS YOU GUYS!!!
 
#19 ·
It doesn't look too bad but you will have to spend some money fixing stuff if you get it.

The only thing I can think of for the switch for the climate control on the glovebox is if they fan runs all the time and that is just to turn it off. If it's more then that I'd be worried about what was hacked up. The radio wires like that, or any aftermarket radio is enough to make me walk away from a car.

In the video underneath it sounds like it just has an exhaust leak somewhere and a loose exhaust shield. Part of the sound under the hood is power steering pump or maybe alternator whine but for the engine to not run more smoothly there should be a trouble code to say what's going on. It could be something as simple as a vacuum hose problem or needing the throttle body cleaning done.

Cracks in the front fenders aren't unusual for those cars.

Id still like to know what those things are sticking out of the bumper?

Really, the only way for you to decide on the handling of both those styles of Cars, asin the Deville/Fleetwood and the bigger one, is to drive both and see what one you like the best. They are both going to be floatier then your 300 is.

Oh, and it is R12 unless someone changed it before.
 
#23 ·
On a factory Delco/Bose as your car was original equip, the amps are with the speakers. If you wish to make it factory original, best take each speaker enclosure out to be certain they haven't been changed. Let's back up a minute and get a FSM. Your friend is ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odk...w=1993+cadillac+deville&_sacat=6029&_from=R40
Here is a great opportunity if you could talk them into an overseas deal.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1992-1993-C...anuals_Literature&hash=item3a822b9381&vxp=mtr

Also go here to find the original equipment/options your car was built with.

http://www.compnine.com/vid.php
 
#26 ·
:( Well, at least it's good for the exhaust problem I am facing then...

Worry, i am unfamiliar with the bird cage idiom. What do you mean? :D

Just ran the VIN Decoder thingy - the car's being reported as follows:

Vehicle: DEVILLE 4 DR
Year: 1993
Build Date: 1992-10-02

Why is it listed as a Deville? Here's the link: http://www.compnine.com/mycar.php?id=7dd23435b422ce12d5c3a51b95d710a0
 
#30 ·
picked the car up today. pewh... the first 100 miles was VERY different from the test drive. the car started stuttering and shaking, refused to accellarate etc. ppp.

In the documents provided i found a recent invoice for the correction of the ignition timing. the mechanic noted "catalyst defective" - so i guess (HOPE!!) that the stuttering is actually a totally clogged exhaust system and not the transmission.

after ~100 miles the ride suddenly went smooth after a lound bang, perhaps the catalyst threw up or something^^

I cleared the DTC Error codes and for my complete surprise the Air Conditioning started working for about 3 minutes, then it shut down again. DTC gave the "low coolant" error code. So i guess the AC is just a refill away :)

I've noted a very odd button below the Parking brake (near the footrest for your left foot) you can step on it and every time i do this i can hear a relay click below the glove box. Do you guys have any idea what that is? (Perhaps the PDC Pipes are in fact for an oil slick^^)

The ride is awesome (apart from the serious stuttering) - lets see how the car performs after i had my break at BK ;)
 
#31 ·
DReffects said:
picked the car up today. pewh... the first 100 miles was VERY different from the test drive. the car started stuttering and shaking, refused to accellarate etc. ppp.
Did you pull the codes?

I cleared the DTC Error codes and for my complete surprise the Air Conditioning started working for about 3 minutes, then it shut down again. DTC gave the "low coolant" error code. So i guess the AC is just a refill away :)
If it's low, there's a leak.

I've noted a very odd button below the Parking brake (near the footrest for your left foot) you can step on it and every time i do this i can hear a relay click below the glove box. Do you guys have any idea what that is?
Nothing stock.
 
#32 ·
Good news:

- The AC works after a refill - heating still does not but i guess that's a matter of flushing the system properly.
- The rumbling noise is a defective catalyst which can be replaced easily

No news on the "Service SSS" light yet, but i guess i simply need new rear struts. Does anyone know the part number?

Apart from miiiinor oil leakage and a the engine coolant consiting to 100% of pure water everything seems to be in great condition :)
 
#45 · (Edited)
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