Another Long Cranking Thread. Debating whether to Pull Fuel Rail.
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1985-1992 Fleetwood, 1993 Sixty Special, All FWD Forum Discussion, Another Long Cranking Thread. Debating whether to Pull Fuel Rail. in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; 99 Deville. Sat for about a year, been driving it for about two weeks. Get the long cranks, usually takes ...
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    Eninety2 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Another Long Cranking Thread. Debating whether to Pull Fuel Rail.

    99 Deville. Sat for about a year, been driving it for about two weeks. Get the long cranks, usually takes two crank attempts to get it started. If i give it a bit of gas it helps but will occasionally backfire. FPR was replaced prior to being parked. I pulled the vacuum hose off it and its bone dry. Put a fuel pressure gauge on it and if I open the ignition it will peg ~40ish (Can't tell exactly as I'm running back from turning the ignition), then drop to zero. With the engine running ~44 lbs steady with no wavering.



    I'm also getting an annoying oil light with no warning messages when stopped at a light. If I move or put it in neutral it goes away. Only code I'm getting is an evap code having to do with excess vacuum and TCC solenoid.


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    MoistCabbage's Avatar
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    When was the last time the TB was cleaned?

    You probably have a faulty oil pressure switch. Fairly common problem. Replace with an AC Delco switch only.

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    Eninety2 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Another Long Cranking Thread. Debating whether to Pull Fuel Rail.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoistCabbage View Post
    When was the last time the TB was cleaned?
    TB was cleaned around the time I parked it. I checked it, its clean. I'll see if i can get a vid this morning of the cranking.

    You probably have a faulty oil pressure switch. Fairly common problem. Replace with an AC Delco switch only.
    I thought it had something to do with the crank bolt. I was hearing something funny last year and I changed the tensioner but even after that I could sear that I could see the pulley wobbling.

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    Crank pulley bolt gets torqued to 37 FT-LBS, then turned an additional 120 degrees. Did you do that?

    Does the fuel pressure hold after turning the engine off?

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    Eninety2 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Another Long Cranking Thread. Debating whether to Pull Fuel Rail.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoistCabbage View Post
    Crank pulley bolt gets torqued to 37 FT-LBS, then turned an additional 120 degrees. Did you do that?
    No, not yet. I was referring to the post below for guidance. It varies somewhat from your suggestion. Here is a quote from Submariner:

    Quote Originally Posted by Submariner409 View Post
    It's possible that the oil got a bit warmer than usual what with the stop & go traffic, and as you said, the sending unit has given you warnings before.

    If possible, get the car up on a hoist, pull the right front wheel and fenderwell liner. Remove the lower transmission inspection plate and have a assistant lock the flexplate ring gear with some sort of tool in the teeth. Now try to torque the harmonic balancer bolt to 260+ ft/lb : the oil pump is wrapped around the crankshaft snout and is driven by friction between the balancer hub and the pump drive sleeve. You would not be the first to discover a (relatively) loose crank hub bolt.
    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...ml#post2247240




    Does the fuel pressure hold after turning the engine off?
    Not sure because I didn't check, but I seem to remember it dropping when I went to disconnect. Because I stopped thinking it might spray everywhere.

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    The tightening procedure I posted is correct, from the FSM.

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    Re: Another Long Cranking Thread. Debating whether to Pull Fuel Rail.

    Why do you suspect the crank pulley torque? Was it recently removed? If not, I'd suspect the oil pressure switch.

    Your fuel pressure looks good. Are you getting fire at the plugs?

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    Eninety2 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Another Long Cranking Thread. Debating whether to Pull Fuel Rail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    Why do you suspect the crank pulley torque? Was it recently removed? If not, I'd suspect the oil pressure switch.

    Your fuel pressure looks good. Are you getting fire at the plugs?
    It's been some time that I could could swear I see that thing wobbling. I thought it was the tensioner initially and after replacing, it didn't go away.

    Silly question, how would I check if I'm not getting spark?

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    Re: Another Long Cranking Thread. Debating whether to Pull Fuel Rail.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eninety2
    I thought it had something to do with the crank bolt. I was hearing something funny last year and I changed the tensioner but even after that I could sear that I could see the pulley wobbling.
    I misread this, thought you replaced the crank pulley/balancer.

    Have you checked if the fuel pressure drops after shutting the engine off yet? As a quicker test, turn the key to the on position for a few seconds, until the fuel pump shuts off, then turn the key back to off. Do this ~3 times, then start the engine, and see if it starts right away.

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    Re: Another Long Cranking Thread. Debating whether to Pull Fuel Rail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eninety2 View Post
    It's been some time that I could could swear I see that thing wobbling. I thought it was the tensioner initially and after replacing, it didn't go away.
    The wobbling is due to the elastomeric bond between the inner and outer rings. Not all that uncommon.



    Silly question, how would I check if I'm not getting spark?
    Pull a spark plug or grab an old used (but good) one. Plug it into the plug wire and ground the spark plug electrode on a good ground. Be sure it is grounded or YOU become the ground and will get zapped. Watch the plug gap. You should see the spark jump the gap every time it fires. If not, you have ignition problems.

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    Re: Another Long Cranking Thread. Debating whether to Pull Fuel Rail.

    Tried pulling the fuel rail off. I popped two of the tabs to see if I could at least get it to wiggle. I pulled up and nothing, the thing won't budge. How much force is needed? I might not be doing it right. I added some pics so I'm on the same page as everyone.

    These are the tabs right?


    Also, in case I have to remove one of the injectors how to I remove the electrical plugs?

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    Re: Another Long Cranking Thread. Debating whether to Pull Fuel Rail.

    Nevermind. I got them off. For anyone else trying this, it helps if you *slightly* wiggle the injector by electrical plug to unseat it. I was pulling up and they wouldn't budge.

    Anyhow, I managed to check all of them and did not see any weeping. The only possible leak I found was injector #8 (the one with the shrader valve) as I passed a finger under each injector with the ignition open and nothing on any of the others but #8 had a tiny bit of gas residue that I could see. I changed gloves when I got to this point, I was wearing black latex gloves and it was easy to spot if it got wet somewhere.

    Not really sure about this. A sealed system is supposed to be sealed. But this minimal amount is iffy. So I busted out the fuel pressure gauge and decided to run through the whole scenario from my first posts. I took a video from the engine off, ignition open, engine running, and after shutting off the engine to see what the pressure did at each stage.

    Someone wiser than me jump at any time.


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    Re: Another Long Cranking Thread. Debating whether to Pull Fuel Rail.

    Your fuel pressure is fine except that it falls off WAAAAAY too fast after key off. I'd suspect a bad fuel pump check valve. Theoretically it should hold fuel pressure forever.

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    Eninety2 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Another Long Cranking Thread. Debating whether to Pull Fuel Rail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    Your fuel pressure is fine except that it falls off WAAAAAY too fast after key off. I'd suspect a bad fuel pump check valve. Theoretically it should hold fuel pressure forever.
    Is there a way for me to check the pressure coming from the tank bypassing the rail? Not to sound cynical but I was having this problem before I started posting on here and I dropped the tank and got a used pump from another Deville with 88k and it didn't help. Now my my luck history, BOTH pumps probably had a bad check valve but I'd like to be extra sure. Silly me figure what are the chances two Devilles would have a faulty valve.

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