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Cadillac DeVille 1985 to 2005 including:
1985-1992 Fleetwood, 1993 Sixty Special, All FWD Forum Discussion, Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Two weeks and a couple of hundred miles later in the Texan heat: the cooling system is reasonably stable. When ...
  1. #106
    c_d
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Two weeks and a couple of hundred miles later in the Texan heat: the cooling system is reasonably stable. When I checked yesterday, the coolant was around 2mm below the max cold fill line. Temperature is stable with minimal movement straight or very close to 12 o'clock.

  2. #107
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    There's a LOT of sensor stuff that is not monitored or controlled during that normal 1200 rpm fast idle startup. Some sensors aren't even monitored until the systems go closed loop at somewhere between 110 and 160 degrees coolant temp, depending on ambient temp at startup.

    1200 or so rpm for 20 - 50 seconds, 900 or so rpm for a little while, 650 +/- rpm idle after a little while. THEN stuff settles out.

    If your cooling system is tight, that apparent coolant level will rise and fall (cold) about 6mm depending on ambient temps, but there should be NO actual coolant loss for at least 18 months.

    Anal gearhead maintenance: Every April and every October, engine cold, I siphon off exactly 2 quarts of coolant and replace the exact amount with fresh mix - 50/50 coolant and distilled water - so every 6 months there's a fresh infusion of coolant additives and corrosion protection. I do the same drill, at the same time, with the P/S fluid and the brake fluid reservoirs.

  3. #108
    c_d
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Submariner409 View Post
    There's a LOT of sensor stuff that is not monitored or controlled during that normal 1200 rpm fast idle startup. Some sensors aren't even monitored until the systems go closed loop at somewhere between 110 and 160 degrees coolant temp, depending on ambient temp at startup.

    1200 or so rpm for 20 - 50 seconds, 900 or so rpm for a little while, 650 +/- rpm idle after a little while. THEN stuff settles out.
    Thanks for the reply Sub! My problem is that in that very first minute the car is not generating power. Basically, to avoid misunderstandings because of my funny English, when I try to drive away without waiting a minute the car is taking the gas petal very hesitantly and driving extremely rough. At the instant, the MAF kicks in (and sends data), it drives like a star.

    On a side note: my coolant sensor is stuck in the reservoir because of some stop leak residue (compliments of the former owner - leaking crossover gasket was fixed after the car was bought by my friend). Is it possible or advisable to clean the otherwise perfectly alright tank or should I get a new reservoir in any case?

  4. #109
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    If you want to go through the exercise, drain the cooling system (again) and remove the surge tank. Plug the holes, use some dishwasher liquid detergent (nasty stuff), some water and make like the bartender shaking James Bond's martini. Rinse well.

    The level sensor reed switch (not the float) - in the bottom of the surge tank - is replaceable (if you can find one). Otherwise, a new reservoir with sensor is about $60, shipped, from Amazon.

    EDIT: Unplug the darn sensor and check the coolant level visually during your usual semimonthly underhood checks.

  5. #110
    c_d
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Spend the whole day yesterday washing the surge tank (sensor works now - thanks Sub), cleaning the MAP (idle RPM dropped by 100 to 650, MPG's increased by 1.5 - thanks ManicMechanic), rotating the tires, and desperately trying to find the vacuum hole. I tried to do what Ranger told me: to massage the plenum while spraying an aerosol around it - my problem is it didn't work. My plenum has a metal clamp around it in the middle and it does not move a millimeter. No way to massage it with that clamp on▀ Is it safe to remove it and try again or do I cause much more trouble when I do?

    Anyway, I can conclude that I hate the Caddy and the Northstar in particular. Today I received word that the car is acting up in idle and very low RPM's by beeping and displaying "low oil pressure - stop engine". I have already read around here and learned that this is a kind of a common fault. I was annoyed, so when I got to it and against my better knowledge, I stepped on the gas and the message disappeared instantly - however came back at low RPM's. Is there an easy way to determine if it's just the switch or something major?

    According to rockauto, a new ACDelco D1836A Switch Assembly is only around $8. I read in another thread that it takes about 2 hours to change, although it looks fairly straight forward (even to me) on the pictures that Sub provided. Is there some obstacle making a rather simple screw-out and new part in so difficult? Am I right in assuming that we will loose all that brand new oil that we put in a month ago when changing the switch?

  6. #111
    cadillacjoel23 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    it won't take two hours to change that switch if u can get ur hand in a tight space changed mine in 30 mins.. no problem

  7. #112
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Plenum has a rubber bellows (flex area to compensate for temp changes) next to the band clamp - that's where the leak shows up.

    See that rubber bulge next to the clamp ??? The lower part of that is what tends to crack.

  8. #113
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    I tried to do what Ranger told me: to massage the plenum while spraying an aerosol around it - my problem is it didn't work.
    Chances are the plenum duct is good. If it where leaking you'd have a P0171 & P0174 code.

    Today I received word that the car is acting up in idle and very low RPM's by beeping and displaying "low oil pressure - stop engine". I have already read around here and learned that this is a kind of a common fault. I was annoyed, so when I got to it and against my better knowledge, I stepped on the gas and the message disappeared instantly - however came back at low RPM's. Is there an easy way to determine if it's just the switch or something major?
    Unless you (or someone else) removed and reinstalled the crankshaft damper, it's always the switch.

  9. #114
    c_d
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    Chances are the plenum duct is good. If it where leaking you'd have a P0171 & P0174 code.
    I have both every now and then, especially when going above 70 mph. They go away quickly in normal city driving. Is it safe to remove the clamp for better access or am I running danger of damaging the plenum then?


    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    Unless you (or someone else) removed and reinstalled the crankshaft damper, it's always the switch.
    I had him check all the garage receipts. The only major thing being repaired in the general vicinity was the coolant crossover gasket. The service records (if provided completely) of the previous owner do not mention any repair regarding the harm balancer,

  10. #115
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    You can't remove the clamp - it's captive.

    More pictures in www.rockauto.com, the car, model, year, engine, intake coupling. The Dorman sells for about $16 - with all 8 manifold seals. A GM dealer wants $7 apiece for the seals (2002 price), $45 for the plenum. In RockAuto, click the INFO tab in the Dorman text line - you can see 3 different views of a plenum - and the seals.

    Just in case - That plenum steel plate has 3 captive nuts - welded on - they receive the 3 long bolts that go all the way through the throttlebody - so there's a bit more disassembly required than just the intake manifold and fuel rail. Convince "your buddy" that he needs a subscription to www.alldatadiy.com.

  11. #116
    c_d
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    The subscription is not the problem Sub - I had one since the Seville. However, having a combined four left hands is and a very incomplete set of tools doesn't help either.

    I have ordered one ACDelco D1836A Switch Assembly as well as an oil pressure switch socket, should be at my door step by Thursday.

    BTW: ACDelco has a promotion going on at Amazon with 25% additional rebate for ACDelco Spark Plug Wire Sets, ACDelco Engine Air Filters, ACDelco Oil Filters, and ACDelco Cabin Air Filters.

  12. #117
    c_d
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    I had a couple of spare minutes today and checked all fluids, hoses, etc. - oil cold was slightly under the middle of the dashed area, hot it's spot on the middle. Coolant is sitting straight at the cold max mark since 3 weeks. I did a 20 miles test drive. No issue, error, code, whatsoever. I double checked that the oil error bulb is still operational (I know paranoid) but the car is performing as if nothing ever happened. That thing drives me crazy.

    One thought, maybe totally stupid: the day before the car complained about the oil pressure, we were liberally spraying throttle body cleaner around the plenum, intake manifold and vacuum hoses to identify the leaks causing the lean codes. Could this upset the pressure switch? Even more stupid question: when I checked the brake booster vacuum hose, it smelled like gas. Is that normal?

  13. #118
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Quote Originally Posted by c_d View Post
    One thought, maybe totally stupid: the day before the car complained about the oil pressure, we were liberally spraying throttle body cleaner around the plenum, intake manifold and vacuum hoses to identify the leaks causing the lean codes. Could this upset the pressure switch?
    No.

    Even more stupid question: when I checked the brake booster vacuum hose, it smelled like gas. Is that normal?
    No.

  14. #119
    c_d
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    No.
    Ranger would you care to elaborate on your second No?

    We changed the oil pressure switch over the weekend. Another super simple task made impossibly difficult by good engineering. I was unable to use my cool new switch adapter socket because it simply didn't fit. Blocked to the left by an exhaust pipe, to the middle by a engine mount + a big C-clamp, and to the right by the oil pan - good job in designing that beast. Eventually, we made it happen and even repaired what appeared to be a little oil leak.

    Of course something else stopped working: the drivers seat goes back but get's stuck on its way forward. Nothing blocking the slides and it sounds like a pinion is damaged.

  15. #120
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    There should be no fuel or fuel smell in any vacuum line.

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