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Cadillac DeVille 1985 to 2005 including:
1985-1992 Fleetwood, 1993 Sixty Special, All FWD Forum Discussion, Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Sounds to me like it may have a HG problem and some unscrupulous seller patched it up enough to unload ...
  1. #91
    Ranger's Avatar
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Sounds to me like it may have a HG problem and some unscrupulous seller patched it up enough to unload it to some unsuspecting sole.

  2. #92
    c_d
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    Sounds to me like it may have a HG problem and some unscrupulous seller patched it up enough to unload it to some unsuspecting sole.
    According to Compnine, it's the following Vehicle: "DEVILLE TOURING 4 DR Year: 2004 Build Date: Unk." So I hope it's not as catastrophic as you suspect.

    I really *hope* it's that coolant crossover issue of the past because I remember he had an extensive repair just after he bought it because it was leaking like hell. We brought the car to our mechanic together and I remember the mech. saying "I smell coolant" while he was opening the hood." The wire itself was expertly taped away UNDER the coolant surge canister and I would not have found it if I wouldn't have studied a thread on there boards about a stuck floating element (with pictures). He had this repair done in January and I replaced maybe half a quart (liter) of coolant to the max cold line today. The car drove around 2k miles since the repair, mostly inner-city stop-and-go.

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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Wait a minute. UNDER THE SURGE TANK? That's not a temperature sensor. That's the coolant level sensor. They did that to extinguish the message and not have to replace the tank.

  4. #94
    c_d
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    Wait a minute. UNDER THE SURGE TANK? That's not a temperature sensor. That's the coolant level sensor. They did that to extinguish the message and not have to replace the tank.
    I read that with big relief - please see the pictures I have taken (with some comments) here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9756381...7634145299151/

  5. #95
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Yup, pretty sure that's the level sensor. The ECT sensor is on the rear of the right head.

  6. #96
    c_d
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    I followed the procedure cleaning the purge line again yesterday as I was not fully convinced about the success of my first try. Despite the two rubber hoses and plastic line being reasonable clean, the bolt only appeared to be. I cannot stress this enough: follow the advise given on this board and use a generously sized tool to work the bolt. I ended up using the straw from a brake cleaner can to pre-clean. After a couple of rounds, and without warning, a steady and sizable stream of coolant evacuated.

    What is commonly referring to steady and sizable - at the connector of the coolant surge tank - is: picture a small tap in your garden house. Not just dripping or a small stream, a real flow of approximately 1/2 cup per second extending the whole diameter of the purge line. Be careful with trying to measure at the hollow bolt whose diameter is much smaller (higher pressure) and hard to capture the coolant: spilling is imminent.

    I also did some electrical work by reconnecting the coolant level sensor. Strangely, an alternating check coolant / check oil came up. I immediately checked the oil to find it in the perfect spot as well as still fully intact. The oil notification went away after 10 minutes of additional driving, the coolant seems to be here to stay. Gently tapping the floater did not seem to work and it *appears* it is floating. I suspect the sensor itself being broken and that is very inconvenient. I still have my bubbling liquid sounds but at least I am imagining they are much shorter now and do sound different. I'll follow the procedure of giving it 2-3 days and re-assess (while frequently checking the coolant).

    On another thought: I was debating connecting my fluid extraction unit to the end of the purge line that connects to the surge tank. That may be a spill free and extremely quick way of assessing the condition of the purge line. Another though was to get a rubber hose that is transparent as well as heat resistant to enable a visual inspection without fiddling around with tools and spillage.

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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    On another thought: I was debating connecting my fluid extraction unit to the end of the purge line that connects to the surge tank. That may be a spill free and extremely quick way of assessing the condition of the purge line. Another though was to get a rubber hose that is transparent as well as heat resistant to enable a visual inspection without fiddling around with tools and spillage.
    The easiest way is to just pull the hose, remove the surge tank cap and stick it in the the tank. Clean, easy and quick.

  8. #98
    c_d
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    The easiest way is to just pull the hose, remove the surge tank cap and stick it in the the tank. Clean, easy and quick.
    And there I was using a protective cap from the rear shocks air valve over the surge tank connector to preserve the pressure ... that is easy indeed to quickly check the flow.

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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    .......... talk about over-thinking a simple procedure ........... and we're NOT trying to maintain pressure anywhere during a purge line flow test: That hollow bolt/nipple sits at a high point on the discharge side of the water pump - into the water crossover. IF the hollow bolt/nipple and the rubber/plastic line is clean/clear (depending on car model) then the water pump flow discharge itself is what we want to see - maintaining system pressure for a simple test has no bearing on the outcome.

    Pull the hose off the surge tank, idle the engine, and watch it dribble into the open surge tank neck. If the hose/plastic line is toast, replace it with a proper sized length of rubber fuel line (has a braid jacket, will hold far more than system pressure) from any parts store.

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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Oh good Lord. You should be checking it cold to begin with, before there is any pressure (or hot coolant to burn you).

  11. #101
    c_d
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Ranger, I am probably totally guilty of over-thinking a simple process but I am not crazy enough to remove the cap while coolant is hot. Anyway, I have checked the flow, it's still a steady, significant flow of coolant. The Deville had no issues holding its temperature at straight 12 o'clock. Coolant level was lower after a 15 mile test drive but is now stable since two days at max cold mark. However, the bubbling sound is back - how long does it normally take to bleed the air out - assuming that the cooling system had LOTS of air in it? The car is normally driving around 10-15 miles a day.

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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Theoretically it should bleed out in one day, but I have had to top mine off 2 or 3 times when I use the shop vac method to blow out additional coolant. That said, I never get any bubbling. THAT is a scary symptom.

  13. #103
    c_d
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    Theoretically it should bleed out in one day, but I have had to top mine off 2 or 3 times when I use the shop vac method to blow out additional coolant. That said, I never get any bubbling. THAT is a scary symptom.
    Yes, as I said its like someone gurgling lysterine in the engine compartment. It usually goes in sync with acceleration and stops as soon as I let go of the pedal.

    I have checked all liquids today, no issue with any of them all but oil on the spot (half a pint fixed that) and even the trans fluid looks ok (despite the dash display). I'll have that changed as soon as I find a shop not just flushing it, as Sub pointed out. Strangely even the dealer wants to just connect it to a fluid exchanger machine and just lets it run for a while ($189 and still no pan drop). It's time that Manic opens his shop close by.

  14. #104
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Personally, I don't like fluid exchange machines. I prefer to drop the pan and clean any debris as well as the magnet, but then that takes a little longer. If it where not my car and I was charging for the service, I'd prefer the quicker easier method. That said, I'd figure out this gurgling and overheating issue before I'd spend any more money or time on it. Something is definitely not right.

  15. #105
    c_d
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Overheating seems to be solved - at least in my amateur mind: the last coolant fill was in January, when the crossover was repaired. We both did not check the coolant thoroughly enough since then and eventually it slightly overheated (no code or anything really significant like with my old Seville "ENGINE OVERHEATED", just the needle at 230F on the "SubMariner Scale"). It was spotted almost immediately (within 5-10 minutes I'd say - I am paranoid after my Seville stranded me last year). Thanks to the excellent advice on this board, I confirmed a clogged hollow bolt and no fluid movement through the purge line. After this was fixed, the needle is glued to 12 o'clock. There was not too much coolant missing, maybe around a soda can. During the cleaning process of the hollow bolt we identified a disabled coolant level sensor which pretty much explains why the car did not complain about lacking coolant. Now there is a steady stream of coolant through the purge line and after an initial slightly lower coolant level, it sat straight at the full cool marking for about a week. I'll be away for two weeks and will re-check then.

    The gurgling - I have no idea. I am constantly checking fluids now when I have the car near me but all looks ok. Regarding the vacuum leak that lead to this thread, I carefully sprayed throttle body cleaner around the plenum last weekend and moved it around a little with my fingers but did not spot any change in idle RPM. I did however, spot a semi wet area just where the underbelly of the plenum meets the intake manifold on the metal of the block. However, the connection to the brake booster is rather loose, the vacuum hose connects to a piece of plastic with no clamp securing it. Furthermore, the plastic socket spins around easily. This was one spot that Manic pointed out a while ago as potential problem area. Will try to check it more thoroughly when I have the next chance to do it.

    The rough idle at the first minute after a cold start is confusing. I think it was Manic that provided me with a checklist. The MAF seems ok but the MAP did not behave as it should have. I used an OBD reader with live data capabilities and found out that in the first 60 seconds after a real cold start, the MAF is sending "0 gr/s", while the MAP is all over the place (between 0 and 90 KPa). After approximately 60 seconds, the MAF suddenly sends data unequal to zero and the car instantly purrs like a cat with RPM are falling from 1200 to 675. I'd assume the MAF has some kind of warm-up period.

    I'd appreciate your thoughts as I do fear doing exactly what Ranger pointed out: throwing parts at a terminal car patient.

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