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Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

27K views 184 replies 10 participants last post by  Ranger 
#1 · (Edited)
Here I was thinking my Cadillac troubles are over but ... A friend owns a '04 Deville DTS and was complaining to me about the SES light coming on and off randomly. He asked me to have a look since I went through so much trouble with my old Seville. During a test drive I didn't notice anything strange but a rough idle with slightly elevated rpm that totally goes away the warmer the engine got. The Deville also has abyssal gas mileage of below 13 MPG. After a couple of miles the SES light indeed came on and stayed on until we parked the car. 10 minutes later we got back in the car and drove the same route back with the light not coming on at any point in time.

Strangely, it is not throwing any code that can be read out with the internal code reader but two codes concerning the front seat adjustment motor. One remains of my old Seville was an external code reader that threw out the following:

Trouble Code: P0174
ABSLT TPS(%): 14.5
ENG SPEED(RPM): 2027
CALC LOAD(%): 50.2
MAF(gr/S): 29.45
MAP(KPa): 71.0
COOLANT(°C): 94
IAT(°C): 27
IGN ADV(°): 39.0
SECOND AIR: ATMOS
ST FTRM1(%): 8.6
ST FTRM2(%): 0.0
LT FTRM1(%): 21.1
LT FTRM2(%): 24.2
VEH SPEED(KPH): 78
FUEL SYS 1: CLSD
FUEL SYS 2: CLSD

After some quick research through this board, it could be a vacuum issue. We did a quick check of all apparent vacuum lines and the only one showing clear signs of degradation is the one circled yellow in the picture below. The rubber hose part is cracked by an inch (on the bottom) and the hole connection is very shaky and loose.

Auto part Fuel line Automotive fuel system Engine Vehicle


Unfortunately, I have no idea what that particular part is or what it's supposed to do - and therefore does not know whether this could be a/the cause for the SES light. I also read here on the boards that I should just get a can with some carb cleaner or so, carefully spray the vacuum lines, and listen for rpm changes to isolate any vacuum leaks. I'd like t do that but was unable to find a picture or diagram clearly marking all candidate spots. Is such a treasure hidden deeply somewhere?

EDIT: I didn't notice this at first with the code reader: P0174 is marked as "pending" while P0171 was "confirmed". Don't know how that translates into the H/C marks with the in-dash reader.
 
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#160 ·
I only checked ACDelco parts, since I was always shot down when I mentioned I'd put something else in the car. What brands are safe/cadillacforums-approved to go with?

So, just to make sure I understand correctly: if I try to repair it, I should go for a completely new radiator with the side tanks already attached -OR- side tank only but done by a professional shop?

Here's the fracture at 11psi:

Engine Auto part Vehicle
 
#161 ·
Holy shit Batman, that's a hemorrhage, not a leak.
I couldn't give any advice on brands. This is one of those cases where an A/C Delco part is not all that important. Just be sure to use one with the proper fittings for the trans cooler lines and oil cooler (if so equipped).

If you choose to replace the side tanks it is a DIY job. Once you get the radiator out, you just bend back the perimeter tabs visible in the above picture. Replace the tank which I would assume comes with a new gasket and then simply use pliers or channel locks to bend the tabs back in place.
 
#162 ·
I hope I am not on the wrong trail here but to me it looks like the non-problematic side is broken. According to http://parts.nalleygmc.com/images/parts/gm/fullsize/9910113G01-021.JPG it's the side with only one big hose connection. Do I really have to worry that much about dis-shaped o-rings and stuff?

BTW: I checked the factory options with compnine VIN decoder but it doesn't say whether I have an oil cooler installed or not. How can I make sure?
 
#163 ·
I doubt seriously that your car has the V03 RPO option. Look on the RPO sticker under the spare tire cover, and an engine lube oil cooler has 2 lines that exit the top front side of the oil filter adapter and snake around to the front of the passenger side radiator tank - 2 lines/fittings very similar to the transmission oil cooler lines on the driver's side rear of that tank.

From your last picture, you do not have an engine oil cooler.

That entire rectangular plastic end tank is held onto the radiator core with those bent aluminum tabs - there is a seal ring - a silicone rectangular O-ring, if you will, that has to be replaced along with the new end tank. Tackle the job if you wish - it is NOT a cut&dried pry it off and stick it back together job - especially for a first try. You could go to a junkyard, get a couple of old radiators and practice taking them apart.
 
#164 ·
it doesn't say whether I have an oil cooler installed or not.
How can I make sure?


look at the radiator - along with the big rubber radiator hose -
you will see 2 steel lines going to the plastic tank on the drivers side -
these are the trans cooler lines -

now look at the passengers side -
if you see similar steel lines going into the plastic tank -
those are the Engine Oil Cooler lines -
if there are NO steel lines going to the plastic tank -
you do NOT have an EOC -
------------------

I recommend SPECTRA brand radiators - high quality - at a great price -

if you do NOT have an EOC - SPECTRA CU 2491 - $101.95 - INCLUDING SHIPPING -
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPECTRA-PRE...lac|Model:DeVille&hash=item51b03217f9&vxp=mtr

if you DO have the EOC - SPECTRA CU2620 - $123.95 - INCLUDING SHIPPING -
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPECTRA-PRE...lac|Model:DeVille&hash=item35bd5b8867&vxp=mtr
 
#165 ·
I cancelled he order for the side tank and have the whole assembly coming in - just as advised. Do I have to/should get any other parts while in there?

Hate this car - I personally witnessed it's gremlins today first hand: TPMS was warning me about two tires being low, so I cycled through the in-dash display - they all read 31 ok. Message keeps on coming back every 5 minutes.
 
#167 ·
I can't think of any other parts you need.
Good, thank you. I was worried that a thermostat has to go or something.

Kinda sounds like the feeling is mutual.
In my defense: everyone does. :) The owner, my mechanic who could have made a fortune on this thing, yet another friend who suffers because he has a nice and quite complete snap-on toolbox. The only person voicing soft feelings towards the Deville is my wife but when put on the spot I hear the Beetle drive away.
 
#168 ·
I went with bascatt's recommendation, the Spectra radiator is here. Last night, I tried to educate myself on the installation procedure but alldatadiy has no installation information at all.

I searched the board and the results are mixed, in particular regarding whether or not the fans and the A/C condenser have to a) come out, b) just be loosened, c) can stay where they are. Same question for the fans.

I am slightly confused about the transmission cooler connection as well, some say I need a "2-wrench approach", others just one wrench and it's off, yet others say no wrench but a quick disconnect tool. There is one reference about putting plastic bags over the hose ends to avoid contamination of the transmission fluid, does this mean I should have a canister ready to replenish any unavoidable fluid spills?
 
#169 ·
This is nothing that needs specific instructions. Just remove the radiator sight shield and probably the lower air deflector as well. Then remove the upper mounts and anything else that's in the way. Trans cooler lines will become apparent when you see them. Cooling fans will have to be removed. Condenser should not have to be touched.

Tech Tips:
This is for a '97, but there's not a lot of differences.
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-tech-tips/217563-radiator-replacement-97-deville.html
 
#170 ·
Crap as usual - new radiator is installed. Pressure tested the system, there is a new leak now in what I believe is the water pump. It's not as violent as the cracked radiator side tank but a steady drip.

Electrical wiring Auto part Wire Technology Engine



Just keeps getting better and better.
 
#173 ·
The water pump shaft seal isn't replaceable, you'll need to replace the pump, which will come with the pump to crossover seal. You can buy the pump cover gasket for a couple of dollars.

I haven't been following this thread closely. Do you need to replace the crossover gaskets? If not, you don't need that gasket set.
 
#174 ·
Moist, my friend has had the crossover and its gaskets repaired in January, from the price he paid this was quite an extensive repair. The current problem is that we have gradually replaced all leaking parts in the cooling system, starting from the hoses, over the surge tank, and finally the radiator (side tank) itself. Currently, a new (or formerly undetected) leak has developed in the water pump area.

Ranger was kind enough to point me to a waterpump gasket but I was unable to get one simply because there is no single gasket but many :)
 
#176 ·
The water pump replacement isn't bad - I did it in a morning using http://www.cadillacforums.com/forum...55-northstar-water-pump-replacment-steps.html as a reference (very good steps!) - only consideration was that I had to move the cruise control module to get enough space to remove the airbox. The tool listing that is in that post is complete - I know because I had to buy all of them as I was travelling :bigroll: when my water pump decided it was a good time to start knocking (no, really - it sounded like a heavy knock, but went away when I took off the WP drive belt... the WP bearing was completely shot and had maybe 10 degrees of wobble in every direction)

You will make a mess when removing the water pump cover, but beyond that it's not bad.
 
#179 ·
Thank makes sense and pictures help a lot, thanks naif! I was reading about the upgraded cover and gaskets but I guess a 2004 Deville should have it.

The Bosch was more expensive but it at least stated to include the o-ring gasket.
 
#180 ·
The several water pump capsules (assemblies) in RockAuto all come with the inner O-ring seal. The water pump cover/thermostat housing does too, but you can get the seal (gasket) separately............. and the new style seal will not work in the old cover.

Here's the difference between the two water pump covers.........
 
#182 ·
OK, that was the last straw, this catastrophe of a car goes where slip's car is going, too: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-deville-1985-2005-including-1985/374482-so-long-farewel-l-adieu.html

A couple of days ago, I had a professional garage change the water pump, thermostat, all hoses, etc. to close that annoying cooling systems chapter. It is indeed closed now. I had to leave for a couple of day and when I came back, the Deville was dead. My wife's beater car, a poor 06 VW Beetle, was able to jump start the Deville but I immediately noticed light smoke coming from the back part of the engine close to the firewall. I switched it off, ran upstairs to get a flashlight, and restarted it. While I did not observe any smoke, it still smells burned.

I then bought a new battery and installed it (found around $4 and a what would jesus do bracelet under the back seat). Car starts but not as aggressive as it used to, so I am not super confident. In addition to that, I now hear a periodic 3-clack "Toc-toc-toc" sound from the drivers side rear of the car every now and then.

On a side note, the mechanic performed TWO smoke tests to find hat annoying reason for the both banks lean codes. Nothing. Another told me that he suspects a minor oil leak to be the reason for his undetectable vacuum leak but that doesn't sound right. When the caddy was driven by my friend, I only recall putting a little less that 1 quart of oil in once every 2k miles.

After reading slip's post, I just realised that this thing needs to go, too. It has been nothing but trouble.
 
#184 ·
Ranger, it needed so much more than that. It's just a cursed car. Last week I updated the stickers for the sale. The car somehow sensed it and I had a horrific drive. At first the odometer lighting turned really dark out of the sudden, then the DIC displayed "CHECK FUEL GAUGE". Afterwards the usual lean codes came back. TPMS was shouting about one tire. The car felt sluggish for a little bit. I stopped at a gas station to check the air but it was on-spot. After restarting the car, none of the above problems were displayed. Anyway, I got the stickers and traded the Deville for a 06 Crown Victoria P71.

Not close as luxurious of a ride but it starts, drives, and performs flawlessly.
 
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