Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS - Page 5
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Cadillac DeVille 1985 to 2005 including:
1985-1992 Fleetwood, 1993 Sixty Special, All FWD Forum Discussion, Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Manic, thank you very much about this very elaborated post - I'll follow it to the letter. Do you have ...
  1. #61
    c_d
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Manic, thank you very much about this very elaborated post - I'll follow it to the letter. Do you have a shop by any chance? My trusted mechanic back here hates to work on Cadillac (he yelled at me when I brought another Caddi in his shop and told my friend to by a Town Car or Toyota/Honda/Subaru). With my old Seville I have been to more than 10 mechanics with a varying degree of bad results. The dealerships are horrible, one of the two quoted me $7k for a 99 Seville (not a H/G issue).

    On a side note: Ranger cracked it, it is indeed Berlin (that accounts for the funny English) and San Antonio.

  2. #62
    Manic Mechanic is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Ah Berlin, I should have guessed, your syntax has a foreign "accent" at times, and you're willing to own VAG cars. At my shop we chastise customers who buy those but Cadillac's are welcome now that I've become thoroughly familiar with the Northstar powertrain. We do work on German cars and I actually own a BMW but the VAG's are some of the most difficult to become accustomed too and obtain parts. But I'm one of those guys who's pretty good at anything I do. As far as a shop right now I'm working at a place at the Eastern edge of Magnolia postal routes, a small town about 2.5-3 hours drive from SAT, closer to The Woodlands where the PGA course is. My oldest son and I are actively working on opening our own garage soon in Montgomery about 2.0-2.5 hours from you. That's a little far but who knows, it may be worth it if that's the kind of service you're getting at home. Ranger that part of Texas was largely settled by German immigrants back in the early day's of Texas history. The town Bourne is actually pronounced (BURN-nee) so you were pretty close with BER.

    Vernon

  3. #63
    c_d
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Indeed, the drive would be a small price to pay for service - count me in for my next big service and tune-up. Regarding VAG, I am in the comfortable position that I can yell at the trainees from VW at their placement in the US in their natural language. After my second call they want me to go away and send the parts or information I need.

  4. #64
    c_d
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    With the MAF unplugged, the Caddi has big trouble to stay on. The first two tried made it die after a second or two. Third try had it running but extremely rough, its idle being all over the place. Will try the MAP tomorrow (was unable to explain where to find it over the phone).

  5. #65
    Manic Mechanic is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    It's best to not unplug the MAF with the engine running, it doesn't hurt anything but it most likely will die. Unplug the MAF with the key off then start it up. The computer sees it as a missing signal and goes by the other sensors to calculate the load, when you unplug it running it throws everything for a loop. Be sure it's warmed up also so that the O2 sensors are working. If it runs bad without the MAF I would suspect the MAP. Try cleaning it out with a flush of intake/throttle spray before condemnation. Even with a vacuum leak the MAP,ECT, and O2's should allow it to idle and run satisfactory without a MAF signal. If not the MAP is most suspect as the others will set codes a lot easier than a bad or clogged MAP. MAP is pressure in the intake so it doesn't matter where the air is getting in. A large vacuum leak with a good MAF will cause problems because the MAF overrules the others and can't account for unmetered air getting in from someplace else. So erratic operation without a MAF on start-up is particularly damming to the MAP.

    Vernon

    ----------

    A guy brought a Subaru Impreza Wagon, 2.0 Turbo in yesterday. Said CEL on. No cel or history all monitors ready. So I drive it and notice it idles fine but strains under heavy throttle with boost etc. Scan tool shows pegged out fuel trims whenever I'm on the throttle good (+23.x %). After a few miles I decide it's definitely leaning out and not an ignition or exhaust problem. So I decide to go back to the shop and hook up a fuel pressure gauge but I unplug the MAF where I turned around. Problem solved, without the MAF supplying incorrect information the little wagon hauls xxx again. My apprentice put a new MAF on it today and cleared the code, car is ready to roll. The PCM was more than able to calculate load with the MAP and others sans the MAF, the engine ran perfect from idle to 2 BAR without the MAF. Fuel trims were back at zero by the time I got back to the shop, about 3 miles.

    Vernon

  6. #66
    c_d
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Manic, I did not make myself quite clear: the car was off when he unplugged the MAF. The first attempt to start succeeded but the car died within two seconds. The second attempt, too. After the third try, the car ran but with very rough idle. We followed your procedure to the letter, however, I have difficulties implementing it: in your first post I understood that the car needs to be cold when I undergo the procedure. In the second one the O2 sensors are supposed to be warm. I'll try having him re-set the whole thing today with snapping a video.

    PS: On Friday, I have the time to go investigate myself. However, the only opportunity I have to get the engine cold is at his place. The temperature down here is around 90 daytime and the engine is at full operating temperature in under two minutes. I would like to check for vacuum leaks in the plenum area again but this is quite challenging since he is literally parked under very old trees next to a country club in an area that banned any open flames. I'd suspect that playing around with a can of carb or brake cleaner on a hot engine will not come across too well. Can I substitute any flammable aerosol with a water spray bottle producing a very fine mist?

  7. #67
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Water mist will work, but a flammable aerosol works better. Heat won't ignite it. It needs spark. I wouldn't be too concerned about it.

  8. #68
    c_d
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Guys, I'm with the Deville now. I immediately noticed that the brake petal has a lot of play and feels quite spongy. Additionally there is a strange whining sound when stepping on the brakes: http://youtu.be/K_Z7XyEmSRE

    Braking power also seems to be reduced.

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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    A spongy brake pedal sounds like air in the lines that needs to be bleed. A "whine" could be a vacuum leak (depending on how you describe it). After listening to the Youtube, it does sound a bit like vacuum. I assume that noise was when you step on the brake?

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    c_d
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Thanks, Ranger. I'll bleed the brakes. The whining sound occurs only at the last quarter of the break pedal and only when the engine is on. Pedal feels ok when the car is off.

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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Hmm, I wonder if it might not be a brake booster problem.

  12. #72
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    The MC, pads, and rotors are new and were put in end of January, 2013. The look more than fine. The only "bad" thing that I can see is a somewhat squished bleeder valve screw. Could this be an issue? Is it acceptable to just replace this screw, untighten it, and bleed air+air by stepping on the pedal; then tighten and hope for the best?

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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    If the bleeder valve is not sealing properly, yes that could be an issue, but if that where the case and it was letting air into the system, I would also expect it to be leaking when under pressure (brake applications). Is the back of the caliper wet? You can replace it if need be if you can get it out without breaking it.

  14. #74
    Manic Mechanic is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    Cool! You found the problem. The brake power booster is broken. Among other problems it leaks, this is the sound as it's ingesting air under intake manifold vacuum. Your source of a bad brake pedal and sporadic fuel injection lean codes is the same thing. Remove and replace. I haven't done one on a Deville but they can be a difficult job due to the under dash accessibility of the fasteners and switches. There's a black plug spacer between the master cylinder and the booster push rod, it will pop out from a spring if the pedal is depress with the master cylinder removed. Pop it out on purpose with a helper there or a rag to catch it so it doesn't get lost or overlooked upon reassembly.

    Vernon

  15. #75
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    Re: Sporadic SES light and exotic codes - friend's 2004 DTS

    @Ranger: It is very hard to tell - >100F yesterday. It appears to leak a small amount of fluid around the edges of the broken bleeder valve - at least there is some semi-wet residue. The MC is more or less holding it's level as far as I have seen in the short hours having the car. After inquiring closely, I learned that the screw fell out once when the tires were rotated a week ago but no one knows whether the system was bled afterwards.

    @Manic: Thank you! Are you saying that the system is leaking (vacuum) air or fluid? Conditions of the brakes at the moment: The MC was replaced in January by a dealership mechanic, all pads and rotors are basically new, all hoses inspected for damage. I'll go over in a little bit an try to pin-point the source of the whine, alongside with the bleeding and the plenum check. I'd assume that the brake booster has a vacuum line attached and that I am supposed to inspect this line as well for any potential leaks? I know where the booster is located (big black cylinder right behind the MC), is the vacuum line easy to follow or is its view obstructed by some other parts of the engine?

    I still have hope that it's just that nasty bleeder screw after I learned yesterday night that it physically fell out of its socket.

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