Cadillac Owners Forum banner

2003 DTS Electronic Struts

32K views 63 replies 12 participants last post by  Manic Mechanic 
#1 ·
Last year I was told my 2003 DTS needed new $truts. Before I had the 2003 DTS I had a 2001 Deville and preferred the way it rode over the DTS's firmer suspension. I asked the Cadillac dealership if I could replace the struts with the Deville/DHS struts not only because they were cheaper but because I wanted the softer ride. I was told that I couldn't because the car would think there is something wrong with the suspension. I now realize that a Cadillac dealer is not going to be able to convert your active suspension into a passive suspension with resistors to fool the computer or even admit that such a concept is possible. But at the time without doing much research I impulsively had just the front ones replaced because they were leaking and making noise at a cost of over $2000. I was told the rear were worn but weren't as bad as the front ones. Then six months later after I had spent several thousand dollars on other various problems (LED switches, constant EVAP leaks, motor mounts, wheel hub assemblies, blah blah blah) I really began to regret wasting $2000 on the firm riding front struts. So I decided to put some Monroe passive air struts for a base Deville on the rear. They fit just fine but since they didn't come with any resistors I get the Service Suspension System/ Speed limited to 90 mph message all the time which I already knew would happen. So now I have a firm riding front and a soft riding rear. I really want to put passive struts on the front now but can't bring myself to waste perfectly good very expensive electronic struts. So I was wondering if I simply unplugged the front struts would they then be the same as having passive ones or would they have no damping at all? In other words, are the two struts identical except when the active ones are plugged in they constantly change firmness whenever necessary or are the active struts completely useless if not plugged in?
 
See less See more
#2 ·
Active struts/shocks will always provide damping, even if unplugged. The plug goes to the actuator that moves the valve to vary the damping force.

You can buy a pack of 4.7K ohm, 1/2 watt resisters at RadioShack for $1.19. That'll take care of the codes and warning messages. How to install them has been gone over many times here.

Even if you have passive dampers all around, the ride won't be much soft softer than stock. The DTS has stiffer springs and anti roll bars than the base/DHS.
 
#3 ·
I just want the front to be as soft as the rear. When I go over bumps or a dip in the road there is a noticeable difference between the front and the rear to the point where it kind of annoys me. I just want both ends to be in harmony with one another as silly as that sounds.

I knew I should've looked for a DHS or a Deville when I bought this DTS instead of trying to turn it into something its not. I had an '01 Deville and someone hit me and totaled it. Just two weeks later I was having Cadillac withdrawals and got on the internet and this Black on Black DTS was the only one nearby. I bought it and made them drill into the hood and put my gold hood ornament I kept from my '01 on it. I guess I was under the illusion that putting a hood ornament on it would magically make it a DHS. Well I guess you could say I have a DTS with a touch of H.
 
#5 ·
Changing the frt struts to passive with def soften the ride over bumps. I however would be tempted to keep the stiffer springs since you have retained the stock springs in the rear(not sure if they are diff to be honest though).
Not trying to hijack your thread, but one complaint I have about my base DeVille is nose diving during braking. I am considering stiffer frt springs to help this issue when I change the struts out(maybe even before). Just something to consider is it may change the braking and def will change the handling.
 
#7 · (Edited)
I agree with Chris -
simply unplugging your ACTIVE struts
isn't going to give you what you want -

but here is something to consider -

sell your active struts as a complete assembly -
include the rear springs -

and install the Monroe 171685 strut assembly -

the best price today is $106.40 - each - with free shipping -
http://www.amazon.com/Monroe-171685...&newCar=1&s=automotive&vehicleType=automotive

and also replace the rear springs -
here is the ACDelco rear spring - 45H2127
$102.12 - for the pair - with free shipping -
http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-45H212...al-Rear-Spring/dp/B0031I86K4 http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-45H2127-Professional-Rear-Spring

or the MOOG - 81011 -
$64.27 - for the pair - with free shipping -
http://www.amazon.com/Moog-81011-Coil-Spring/dp/B002M2MF98

those parts - along with 4 resistors -
should give you the DHS ride - and no DIC messages -

I assume you used the Monroe MA822 rear shocks - correct?
 
#11 ·
I just went to GMPartsDirect.com and looked up springs and they just had one spring for all models of the 2003 Deville. The struts are the only component that indicated whether its for sport suspension or non sport suspension. So before I swap out the front struts again I still for curiosity want to find out what the "default" damping rate is if you unplug the electonic struts. I know the damping would not fluctuate anymore because it wouldn't be receiving information from the computer but I still want to know how much damping the struts would do on their own. Would they be too stiff all the time, too soft all the time, etc. It would be nice if you had an electronic suspension where you could change it from "sport mode" to "comfort mode" with a push of a button. As for rear I don't remember the exact part number of the Monroe struts I have, but they were for a base Deville and had the air valve for the self leveling function.
 
#13 ·
I still want to know how much damping the struts would do on their own. Would they be too stiff all the time, too soft all the time, etc.
:noidea: Good question though. My GUESS would be that with no current, they would default to soft.


As for rear I don't remember the exact part number of the Monroe struts I have, but they were for a base Deville and had the air valve for the self leveling function.
Sounds like they are the MA822's.
 
#17 ·
If you try the Monroe spring/strut assembly, the question is moot. Or are you talking about the rear? All the rear springs could be the same: since 60% of the car's weight is on the front, that has the biggest effect on handling. They may not have stiffened the rear springs for the DTS, just the struts.

You don't want to use softer struts with firmer springs--you could get pogo-ing.

I have 126k miles on my base DeVille. I'm wondering whether to get a used STS (don't like the 06-11 DTS) to replace it, or keep it going a few more years until the XTS/3rd gen CTS start coming off leases and become more reasonably priced. So far the best tradein I've been offered is $2000, which is almost insulting. Fairly low mileage Devilles are still available under $10k, but you'd still have an 8 y.o. car with Pop N Drops, etc, to look forward to.

Or like you, I could continue to spend money ($750 since Dec, more needed) to keep this one going. I'm feeling more rode imperfections than a Cadillac should, and the steering wanders a bit.
 
#18 ·
I was referring to the front springs that only has one listing for the 2003 Deville on GMpartsdirect.com. I was just trying to confirm that the springs in the front and rear had a different part number for the DTS. I already replaced the rear with monroe passive air shocks/struts. So I still have the original springs in the rear. I guess I've never really thought about the terminology "strut" and "strut assembly." I've always had the misconception that the difference between a shock and a strut was that a strut was like a shock/spring combo while a suspension with "shocks" had separate coil springs like my 1984 Lincoln Town Car. I used to have an Oldsmobile that I was told had struts in the front and shocks in the rear so I'm still kind of confused what the difference between the two really are. In other words I thought if you had shocks you needed seperate springs and if you had struts it already had a spring built into it. Anyway, I just ordered the Monroe 171685 Quick-Strut Complete Strut Assembly for the front from Amazon. How much do you think my front $2000 active strut assemby is worth with 20K miles on it?
 
#19 · (Edited)
--------------------------
I guess I've never really thought about the terminology
"strut" and "strut assembly."
I've always had the misconception
that the difference between a shock and a strut
was that a strut was like a shock/spring combo
while a suspension with "shocks" had separate coil springs
like my 1984 Lincoln Town Car.

-------------------------
OK - first - strut and strut assembly -

this is a bare strut for your car -

and this is the strut assembly -
it's the same strut - with the spring - bearing plate - and bellows -
all put together - and ready to install on the car -

--------------------
the function of the strut assembly - is to support the car -

the function of the strut - just like a shock -
is to stop the spring from bouncing -

why struts?

in the old days - before front wheel drive -
the front suspension consisted of a LOT of very heavy parts -




----------------------------------------------------
now compare that to your front suspension - below -


----------------------------------
looking at the illustrations -
you can still recognize the coil spring -
with the shock - or strut - going through the middle of it -

both systems still have the lower control arm -
#19 on the old system - and #21 on the strut system -

the spindle is still there -
#26 on the old system - and #12 on the strut system -

but then the strut assembly attaches directly to the spindle -
so everything above the spring in the old system is gone -

the modern system - with struts has a lot fewer parts -
and is much lighter in weight - AND CHEAPER TO MAKE -

------------------

I used to have an Oldsmobile that I was told had struts in the front
and shocks in the rear
so I'm still kind of confused what the difference between the two really are


basically - strut assemblies actually support the weight of the car -
if you removed the strut - you could not drive the car -

shocks - the only job of a shock absorber is to stop the spring from bouncing -
if you removed the shock - you could still drive the car -
but it would be bouncing all over the place -

now here is a special notation -

our Cadillacs have an Electronic Level Control system -
the rear shocks on our cars are special -
in that they actually do more than simply stop the spring from bouncing -

there are air bladders built into the shocks
that are designed to inflate - to raise body of the car -
to maintain the proper ride height - regardless of the load -

but - you could still remove our rear "air-shocks" and drive the car -
the rear end would sit low - and bounce like crazy - but you could drive it -

hope that clears things up - at least a little -
 
#21 ·
Thanks for the illustration. I knew that a strut had more responsibilities than a shock and the two simply weren't synonyms. Until this point no one has been able to successfully articulate the difference for me in a way that made sense. Since I have ordered the Monroe complete strut assembly for the front that should give my front the DHS feel. However, since I only put the Monroe MA822 shocks on the rear with the original rear springs, do I still need to replace the rear springs? Can we confirm that the DTS/DHS has different rear spring rates? I've been driving with these rear shocks for 6 months now and the rear still feels a lot floatier than the front. Assuming the rear does have stiffer springs, will this wear out the shocks prematurely?

----------

1g6kf57993u218656
 
#22 ·
#25670966
code: PCF, PDB
RPOs: 8CC, 8CD, 8CF, 9CC, 9CD, 9CF, 8CZ, 8DA, 8DB, 9CZ, 9DA, 9DB

#25670967
code: PCH, PDC, PDD
RPOs: 8CH, 8CJ, 9CH, 9CJ, 8DC, 8DD, 9DC, 9DD

the code is a way for the supplier and factory to match tuned suspension components
and also why there are so many RPO codes to go along with them
the codes should be on tags attached to the springs (if you can still read them ... they often fade)

your VIN has RPO codes 8DB & 9DB so that puts your OEM springs at #25670966
 
#23 ·
---------------------------------
thanks Chris -
EXCELLENT - and that information is impossible to get anywhere -

I just checked those part numbers with the vin of my 02 DHS -
xxx67 is correct - xxx66 incorrect - for my car -
--------------
when you get a chance - could you do the same research for the front coils -
thanks
 
#24 ·
So that confirms that my current springs and shocks on the rear do not go together. Will this wear out the shocks prematurely or is this something that if I'm okay with how the rear feels, it wouldn't hurt anything to leave it the way it is? I have already driven about 10K miles like this.
 
#26 · (Edited)
--------------------------
So that confirms that my current springs and shocks
on the rear do not go together

no - you are mixing apples and lightbulbs -


the base Deville - and DHS Deville use the FE1 SOFT suspension system -

part of that FE1 system are the SOFT front and rear SPRINGS -

a "soft" spring is easier to compress than a "stiff" spring -
so a soft spring will compress quicker - and further - than a stiff spring -
---------------------
the DTS model Deville uses the FE3 -
sport/firm/stiff - whatever term suits you - suspension system -

and part of that suspension system is the stiff springs on the front and rear -

-------------------
another component of the suspension system
are the front struts and rear shocks -

the base Deville and DHS Deville use PASSIVE - struts and shocks -

the DTS uses ACTIVE struts and shocks -

we already discussed the difference -
---------------
you wanted the DHS ride on your DTS -

-------------------

the rear Monroe MA822 shocks are the correct replacement shocks
for the base and DHS models -

and they are also the correct shocks to use if changing from ACTIVE to PASSIVE -
on the DTS model -

keep in mind the PRIMARY DUTY of the rear shocks -
and that is to DAMPEN THE REACTION OF THE SPRING -
or - stop the spring from bouncing -

-------------------

so - for your quest to make your DTS ride like a DHS -
we have not really done much - YET - on the rear -
we only went from ACTIVE to PASSIVE -
you still have the stiff FE3 springs in the rear -

-----------------

as far as the FRONT goes -
you HAVE made the COMPLETE conversion -

by changing the ACTIVE struts - with the stiff FE3 springs -
to the Monroe 171685 strut assembly -

the Monroe 171685 uses the PASSIVE strut
AND the soft spring from the DHS and base Deville -

-----------------

so - what is the remaining difference -

primarily - the rear springs - they are still the stiff FE3 springs -
 
#27 ·
I realize the only thing left to replace is the rear springs. What I was trying to ask was if I had already possibly damaged or put excessive wear on the shocks by having them paired with stiff springs all this time and may need to replace them again. I believe they were only $80 so I was already leary if the quality of the Monroe was as good as the GM equivalent which was over $300.
 
#29 ·
--------------------------
What I was trying to ask was if I had already possibly damaged
or put excessive wear on the shocks
by having them paired with stiff springs

I answered that question in my response above -

NO - there is no damage to the MA822 rear shocks you have on the rear -

they are - in fact - the correct replacement shock - for the DTS -
when converting to PASSIVE from ACTIVE suspension -

I was already leary if the quality of the Monroe
was as good as the GM equivalent which was over $300

again - you are comparing apples to lightbulbs -

FIRST - rest assured - Monroe products are TOP NOTCH -
I have been recommending them for 40 years -

NEXT - you need to compare the MA822 PASSIVE shock -
to the equivalent ACDELCO #504547 PASSIVE shock -

the best price for the MA822 - $56.36 with free shipping -
available through amazon.com

and the best price for the Delco 504547 - $81.24 - with free shipping -
also available through amazon.com
--------------

or compare the Monroe ACTIVE 40029/40030 - $402.48 each -

to the Delco ACTIVE 580130/580131 - $475.58 each -
 
#30 · (Edited)
My Monroe front strut assembly just arrived and I've ordered the MOOG 81011 rear spring. Now I guess I just have to get the 4 resistors and find someone to install all this stuff! It still really makes me sick to my stomach is that I was so stupid to allow the dealership to put 2 struts on the front at $1938.12 plus labor a little over a year ago and now I'm replacing them with a complete strut assembly for $118 that will give me a smoother ride. At least I came to my senses and didn't let them do the rear also!
 
#35 · (Edited)
The struts from the Cadillac dealer were $969.07 each. That does not include labor. I don't know how much the labor was because I also had the Steering Position Sensor ($79.12) and the MAF Sensor ($159.67) replaced. Labor to install those two parts plus the two front struts was $416. The total bill that day was $2757.06
 
#34 ·
-------------------------
Rock Auto sells genuine ACDelco parts at a substantial discount -
the service department at a dealer charges full retail -

Chris just said -
OEM struts for a '96 STS list at $900 each
- OUCH!

AND THEN CONSIDER YOU COULD GET THE Monroe 90008 KIT -
everything you need - except springs -
to convert your ACTIVE to PASSIVE struts - for $216 - for both sides -

-----------
No listing for 03 DTS
DTS was only a model of the Deville in '03
so the application would be for an 03 Deville with electronic suspension -
rock auto's price -
22064782 - left - $507.79
22064783 - right - $507.79
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top