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Cadillac DeVille 1985 to 2005 including:
1985-1992 Fleetwood, 1993 Sixty Special, All FWD Forum Discussion, 2003 DTS Electronic Struts in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Since GMPartsDirect.com just has one listing for 2003 Deville springs and says "all models," how would one determine which one ...
  1. #16
    pmjarvis is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2003 DTS Electronic Struts

    Since GMPartsDirect.com just has one listing for 2003 Deville springs and says "all models," how would one determine which one they would send you?

  2. #17
    ral1960 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 2003 DTS Electronic Struts

    If you try the Monroe spring/strut assembly, the question is moot. Or are you talking about the rear? All the rear springs could be the same: since 60% of the car's weight is on the front, that has the biggest effect on handling. They may not have stiffened the rear springs for the DTS, just the struts.

    You don't want to use softer struts with firmer springs--you could get pogo-ing.

    I have 126k miles on my base DeVille. I'm wondering whether to get a used STS (don't like the 06-11 DTS) to replace it, or keep it going a few more years until the XTS/3rd gen CTS start coming off leases and become more reasonably priced. So far the best tradein I've been offered is $2000, which is almost insulting. Fairly low mileage Devilles are still available under $10k, but you'd still have an 8 y.o. car with Pop N Drops, etc, to look forward to.

    Or like you, I could continue to spend money ($750 since Dec, more needed) to keep this one going. I'm feeling more rode imperfections than a Cadillac should, and the steering wanders a bit.

  3. #18
    pmjarvis is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2003 DTS Electronic Struts

    I was referring to the front springs that only has one listing for the 2003 Deville on GMpartsdirect.com. I was just trying to confirm that the springs in the front and rear had a different part number for the DTS. I already replaced the rear with monroe passive air shocks/struts. So I still have the original springs in the rear. I guess I've never really thought about the terminology "strut" and "strut assembly." I've always had the misconception that the difference between a shock and a strut was that a strut was like a shock/spring combo while a suspension with "shocks" had separate coil springs like my 1984 Lincoln Town Car. I used to have an Oldsmobile that I was told had struts in the front and shocks in the rear so I'm still kind of confused what the difference between the two really are. In other words I thought if you had shocks you needed seperate springs and if you had struts it already had a spring built into it. Anyway, I just ordered the Monroe 171685 Quick-Strut Complete Strut Assembly for the front from Amazon. How much do you think my front $2000 active strut assemby is worth with 20K miles on it?

  4. #19
    basscatt's Avatar
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    Re: 2003 DTS Electronic Struts

    Quote Originally Posted by pmjarvis View Post
    I was referring to the front springs that only has one listing for the 2003 Deville on GMpartsdirect.com. I was just trying to confirm that the springs in the front and rear had a different part number for the DTS. I already replaced the rear with monroe passive air shocks/struts. So I still have the original springs in the rear. I guess I've never really thought about the terminology "strut" and "strut assembly." I've always had the misconception that the difference between a shock and a strut was that a strut was like a shock/spring combo while a suspension with "shocks" had separate coil springs like my 1984 Lincoln Town Car. I used to have an Oldsmobile that I was told had struts in the front and shocks in the rear so I'm still kind of confused what the difference between the two really are. In other words I thought if you had shocks you needed seperate springs and if you had struts it already had a spring built into it. Anyway, I just ordered the Monroe 171685 Quick-Strut Complete Strut Assembly for the front from Amazon. How much do you think my front $2000 active strut assemby is worth with 20K miles on it?
    --------------------------
    I guess I've never really thought about the terminology
    "strut" and "strut assembly."
    I've always had the misconception
    that the difference between a shock and a strut
    was that a strut was like a shock/spring combo
    while a suspension with "shocks" had separate coil springs
    like my 1984 Lincoln Town Car.

    -------------------------
    OK - first - strut and strut assembly -

    this is a bare strut for your car -

    and this is the strut assembly -
    it's the same strut - with the spring - bearing plate - and bellows -
    all put together - and ready to install on the car -

    --------------------
    the function of the strut assembly - is to support the car -

    the function of the strut - just like a shock -
    is to stop the spring from bouncing -

    why struts?

    in the old days - before front wheel drive -
    the front suspension consisted of a LOT of very heavy parts -




    ----------------------------------------------------
    now compare that to your front suspension - below -


    ----------------------------------
    looking at the illustrations -
    you can still recognize the coil spring -
    with the shock - or strut - going through the middle of it -

    both systems still have the lower control arm -
    #19 on the old system - and #21 on the strut system -

    the spindle is still there -
    #26 on the old system - and #12 on the strut system -

    but then the strut assembly attaches directly to the spindle -
    so everything above the spring in the old system is gone -

    the modern system - with struts has a lot fewer parts -
    and is much lighter in weight - AND CHEAPER TO MAKE -

    ------------------

    I used to have an Oldsmobile that I was told had struts in the front
    and shocks in the rear
    so I'm still kind of confused what the difference between the two really are


    basically - strut assemblies actually support the weight of the car -
    if you removed the strut - you could not drive the car -

    shocks - the only job of a shock absorber is to stop the spring from bouncing -
    if you removed the shock - you could still drive the car -
    but it would be bouncing all over the place -

    now here is a special notation -

    our Cadillacs have an Electronic Level Control system -
    the rear shocks on our cars are special -
    in that they actually do more than simply stop the spring from bouncing -

    there are air bladders built into the shocks
    that are designed to inflate - to raise body of the car -
    to maintain the proper ride height - regardless of the load -

    but - you could still remove our rear "air-shocks" and drive the car -
    the rear end would sit low - and bounce like crazy - but you could drive it -

    hope that clears things up - at least a little -
    DonRSD likes this.

  5. #20
    RippyPartsDept's Avatar
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    Re: 2003 DTS Electronic Struts

    my parts catalog shows two springs for devilles

    if you get me your VIN i can tell you which part# is for your VIN and which one is not
    Chris Heath (RippyPartsDept) is an ASE Certified GM Parts Consultant at Rippy Automotive
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  6. #21
    pmjarvis is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2003 DTS Electronic Struts

    Thanks for the illustration. I knew that a strut had more responsibilities than a shock and the two simply weren't synonyms. Until this point no one has been able to successfully articulate the difference for me in a way that made sense. Since I have ordered the Monroe complete strut assembly for the front that should give my front the DHS feel. However, since I only put the Monroe MA822 shocks on the rear with the original rear springs, do I still need to replace the rear springs? Can we confirm that the DTS/DHS has different rear spring rates? I've been driving with these rear shocks for 6 months now and the rear still feels a lot floatier than the front. Assuming the rear does have stiffer springs, will this wear out the shocks prematurely?

    ----------

    1g6kf57993u218656

  7. #22
    RippyPartsDept's Avatar
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    Re: 2003 DTS Electronic Struts

    #25670966
    code: PCF, PDB
    RPOs: 8CC, 8CD, 8CF, 9CC, 9CD, 9CF, 8CZ, 8DA, 8DB, 9CZ, 9DA, 9DB

    #25670967
    code: PCH, PDC, PDD
    RPOs: 8CH, 8CJ, 9CH, 9CJ, 8DC, 8DD, 9DC, 9DD

    the code is a way for the supplier and factory to match tuned suspension components
    and also why there are so many RPO codes to go along with them
    the codes should be on tags attached to the springs (if you can still read them ... they often fade)

    your VIN has RPO codes 8DB & 9DB so that puts your OEM springs at #25670966
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  8. #23
    basscatt's Avatar
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    Re: 2003 DTS Electronic Struts

    Quote Originally Posted by RippyPartsDept View Post
    #25670966
    code: PCF, PDB
    RPOs: 8CC, 8CD, 8CF, 9CC, 9CD, 9CF, 8CZ, 8DA, 8DB, 9CZ, 9DA, 9DB

    #25670967
    code: PCH, PDC, PDD
    RPOs: 8CH, 8CJ, 9CH, 9CJ, 8DC, 8DD, 9DC, 9DD

    the code is a way for the supplier and factory to match tuned suspension components
    and also why there are so many RPO codes to go along with them
    the codes should be on tags attached to the springs (if you can still read them ... they often fade)

    your VIN has RPO codes 8DB & 9DB so that puts your OEM springs at #25670966
    ---------------------------------
    thanks Chris -
    EXCELLENT - and that information is impossible to get anywhere -

    I just checked those part numbers with the vin of my 02 DHS -
    xxx67 is correct - xxx66 incorrect - for my car -
    --------------
    when you get a chance - could you do the same research for the front coils -
    thanks

  9. #24
    pmjarvis is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2003 DTS Electronic Struts

    So that confirms that my current springs and shocks on the rear do not go together. Will this wear out the shocks prematurely or is this something that if I'm okay with how the rear feels, it wouldn't hurt anything to leave it the way it is? I have already driven about 10K miles like this.

  10. #25
    RippyPartsDept's Avatar
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    Re: 2003 DTS Electronic Struts

    22197594 Code CF
    22197592 Code CH, CJ

    fronts seem simpler but when it comes to the RPO codes it gets confusing so I'm leaving them out
    it appears that you have to check the code no matter what the RPOs say
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  11. #26
    basscatt's Avatar
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    Re: 2003 DTS Electronic Struts

    Quote Originally Posted by pmjarvis View Post
    So that confirms that my current springs and shocks on the rear do not go together. Will this wear out the shocks prematurely or is this something that if I'm okay with how the rear feels, it wouldn't hurt anything to leave it the way it is? I have already driven about 10K miles like this.
    --------------------------
    So that confirms that my current springs and shocks
    on the rear do not go together

    no - you are mixing apples and lightbulbs -


    the base Deville - and DHS Deville use the FE1 SOFT suspension system -

    part of that FE1 system are the SOFT front and rear SPRINGS -

    a "soft" spring is easier to compress than a "stiff" spring -
    so a soft spring will compress quicker - and further - than a stiff spring -
    ---------------------
    the DTS model Deville uses the FE3 -
    sport/firm/stiff - whatever term suits you - suspension system -

    and part of that suspension system is the stiff springs on the front and rear -

    -------------------
    another component of the suspension system
    are the front struts and rear shocks -

    the base Deville and DHS Deville use PASSIVE - struts and shocks -

    the DTS uses ACTIVE struts and shocks -

    we already discussed the difference -
    ---------------
    you wanted the DHS ride on your DTS -

    -------------------

    the rear Monroe MA822 shocks are the correct replacement shocks
    for the base and DHS models -

    and they are also the correct shocks to use if changing from ACTIVE to PASSIVE -
    on the DTS model -

    keep in mind the PRIMARY DUTY of the rear shocks -
    and that is to DAMPEN THE REACTION OF THE SPRING -
    or - stop the spring from bouncing -

    -------------------

    so - for your quest to make your DTS ride like a DHS -
    we have not really done much - YET - on the rear -
    we only went from ACTIVE to PASSIVE -
    you still have the stiff FE3 springs in the rear -

    -----------------

    as far as the FRONT goes -
    you HAVE made the COMPLETE conversion -

    by changing the ACTIVE struts - with the stiff FE3 springs -
    to the Monroe 171685 strut assembly -

    the Monroe 171685 uses the PASSIVE strut
    AND the soft spring from the DHS and base Deville -

    -----------------

    so - what is the remaining difference -

    primarily - the rear springs - they are still the stiff FE3 springs -

  12. #27
    pmjarvis is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2003 DTS Electronic Struts

    I realize the only thing left to replace is the rear springs. What I was trying to ask was if I had already possibly damaged or put excessive wear on the shocks by having them paired with stiff springs all this time and may need to replace them again. I believe they were only $80 so I was already leary if the quality of the Monroe was as good as the GM equivalent which was over $300.

  13. #28
    Submariner409's Avatar
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    Re: 2003 DTS Electronic Struts

    Probably no harm done to the shocks - shocks damp spring compression/rebound, and heavy (sport suspension) springs allow less motion than soft springs - think about it.

  14. #29
    basscatt's Avatar
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    Re: 2003 DTS Electronic Struts

    Quote Originally Posted by pmjarvis View Post
    I realize the only thing left to replace is the rear springs. What I was trying to ask was if I had already possibly damaged or put excessive wear on the shocks by having them paired with stiff springs all this time and may need to replace them again. I believe they were only $80 so I was already leary if the quality of the Monroe was as good as the GM equivalent which was over $300.
    --------------------------
    What I was trying to ask was if I had already possibly damaged
    or put excessive wear on the shocks
    by having them paired with stiff springs

    I answered that question in my response above -

    NO - there is no damage to the MA822 rear shocks you have on the rear -

    they are - in fact - the correct replacement shock - for the DTS -
    when converting to PASSIVE from ACTIVE suspension -

    I was already leary if the quality of the Monroe
    was as good as the GM equivalent which was over $300

    again - you are comparing apples to lightbulbs -

    FIRST - rest assured - Monroe products are TOP NOTCH -
    I have been recommending them for 40 years -

    NEXT - you need to compare the MA822 PASSIVE shock -
    to the equivalent ACDELCO #504547 PASSIVE shock -

    the best price for the MA822 - $56.36 with free shipping -
    available through amazon.com

    and the best price for the Delco 504547 - $81.24 - with free shipping -
    also available through amazon.com
    --------------

    or compare the Monroe ACTIVE 40029/40030 - $402.48 each -

    to the Delco ACTIVE 580130/580131 - $475.58 each -

  15. #30
    pmjarvis is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2003 DTS Electronic Struts

    My Monroe front strut assembly just arrived and I've ordered the MOOG 81011 rear spring. Now I guess I just have to get the 4 resistors and find someone to install all this stuff! It still really makes me sick to my stomach is that I was so stupid to allow the dealership to put 2 struts on the front at $1938.12 plus labor a little over a year ago and now I'm replacing them with a complete strut assembly for $118 that will give me a smoother ride. At least I came to my senses and didn't let them do the rear also!

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