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Cadillac DeVille 1985 to 2005 including:
1985-1992 Fleetwood, 1993 Sixty Special, All FWD Forum Discussion, 1999 concours HG decision. in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Originally Posted by Glenn Delwood I've lived on the USA for 6 years where I went to school. I know ...
  1. #61
    basscatt's Avatar
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    Re: 1999 concours HG decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn Delwood View Post
    I've lived on the USA for 6 years where I went to school. I know feet and miles, which I actually prefer. What about metric tools on GM cars? How do you explain that?

    I'll go take a look at the spot and see if it's doable. I will also keep looking. And basscat, you're right, I haven't done this before.

    I also have a friend willing to help (he's done a couple of HG jobs on non US cars, Toyota, Opel) and possibly another friend also very mechanically inclined.
    I'm still reading the book and the forum. Honestly, I'd learn better by seeing & hands on, rather than the book and that mainly because I haven't done other big jobs like others around here.
    I might be able to put in a good 4-5h on a shorter day. At least that's what I'm hoping.
    --------------------------------
    What about metric tools on GM cars? How do you explain that?

    I was a mechanic when they pulled that crap on us -

    ALL OF US were - and still are - convinced
    it was a conspiracy by the big tool manufactures -
    Snap-On - Mac - Matco - Craftsman - etc -
    so we would need to buy metric tools -

    the tool companies got together and supplied GM
    with metric nuts and bolts for FREE -
    they started with the tie rod sleeves -
    and idler arm mounting bolts -

    no longer could you use a 1/2 wrench and socket on the sleeves -
    you now needed a 13mm -

    and no longer could you use a 5/8 on the idler mounting bolts -
    it took a 16mm -

    at that time our shop didn't work on foreign cars -
    so none of us needed metric tools -

    ya know what - IT STILL PISSES ME OFF -
    those BASTARDS -

  2. #62
    Faded Crest's Avatar
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    Re: 1999 concours HG decision.

    ^^^ I have a beautiful set of SAE wrenches that are still like new. Haven't used them since the last time I tinkered with my bus.

  3. #63
    drewsdeville is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: 1999 concours HG decision.

    Honestly, I think the SAE system is pretty stupid anyway.

    Metric is simple - everything is based on multiples of 10.

  4. #64
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    Re: 1999 concours HG decision.

    It's not stupid to traditionalists. But your point about the simplicity of the Metric system is valid.

  5. #65
    Glenn Delwood is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    I asked a shop around here about the space. It's the guy that rebuilt my alternator. He's not too busy and if he didn't have two. If trucks in there waiting to sell, he would probably rent me some space. He does have two big lifters in there which would be a bonus. The first location, 45 "feet" from home is on someone's property and he might have a forklift.
    Anyway, the guy from the shop here said it would foolish not to rebuild the engine, it being an aluminum block and all. That includes machining the cylinders, new rings, possibly slightly bigger. And then he mention the bottom of it, where a resealing would not be enough. Is it just my impression, or do most people participating in this discussion don't think that this would be necessary?
    Does Jake at N* Performance do more than re-sealing the bottom (i.e. new main bearings, crankshaft work, etc. ) I don't think so.
    Anyway, if I do open the bottom I'll check all that then. I assume new bearings might be an option.

  6. #66
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    Re: 1999 concours HG decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn Delwood View Post
    I asked a shop around here about the space. It's the guy that rebuilt my alternator. He's not too busy and if he didn't have two. If trucks in there waiting to sell, he would probably rent me some space. He does have two big lifters in there which would be a bonus. The first location, 45 "feet" from home is on someone's property and he might have a forklift.
    Anyway, the guy from the shop here said it would foolish not to rebuild the engine, it being an aluminum block and all. That includes machining the cylinders, new rings, possibly slightly bigger. And then he mention the bottom of it, where a resealing would not be enough. Is it just my impression, or do most people participating in this discussion don't think that this would be necessary?
    Does Jake at N* Performance do more than re-sealing the bottom (i.e. new main bearings, crankshaft work, etc. ) I don't think so.
    Anyway, if I do open the bottom I'll check all that then. I assume new bearings might be an option.
    -------------------------------
    the guy from the shop here said it
    would foolish not to rebuild the engine


    he is "old-school" and would be 100% correct -
    on almost anything other than a N* motor -
    obviously he has had very limited experience with North* motors -

    MECHANICALLY - probably 99% of the head gasket jobs -
    ONLY need the head/block mod work done -

    the cylinders have steel sleeves and you simply don't mess with them -
    no honing - polishing - machining - nothing -

    you CAN'T put bigger pistons in a N* -

    unless there is a BIG problem like broken rings -
    or MASSIVE amounts of oil being consumed -
    leave the rings alone -

    the lower end is near bullet-proof -
    I have NEVER heard of a N* with lower end problems -
    main bearings - rod bearings - etc -
    I'm not saying it can't happen - but it would be rare -

    resealing is something else -

    you could replace the oil pan seal without a bunch of extra work -
    but the case half seal is a different story -
    if it isn't leaking - don't mess with it -
    Faded Crest and Faded Crest like this.

  7. #67
    Glenn Delwood is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 1999 concours HG decision.

    I do have a leak somewhere and don't know where it's from. Is the case half seal a big job? What does it entail? If the leak is from there, I'd rather get all things lined up so I don't have to wait for parts to arrive.

  8. #68
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    Re: 1999 concours HG decision.

    Case half seal is a HUGE job! It could easily cause you to spend $500 more in parts and tools and probably double the labor time. If you do just the head gaskets, you can leave the engine on the cradle. If you do the half case, you have to put the engine on a stand. You would need a new oil distribution plate, probably new main bearings, and if you do that, you might as well do rod bearings which will require new rod cap bolts, rear main seal, finding or buying a rear main seal tool, it seems like it never ends!

    The bad part is that it can be very difficult to figure out where the block is leaking. It is very likely you do have a midcase seal leak, but much of your leaking might be traced to the rear main seal itself. If I had it to do over, I would do the rear main seal only and live with whatever leaks remain.

  9. #69
    RippyPartsDept's Avatar
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    How much of a leak are you talking about? Seepage that does or doesn't drip on the ground? That's usually the deciding question.

    And even if you do go after the lower block seals I would recommend against bearing work unless you are adamant about it.
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  10. #70
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    Re: 1999 concours HG decision.

    He's close to 200k on the engine... It would be tough for me to go that deep and not do bearings.

    You will get a good look at the mains if you do split the block. At 105k, mine looked scored, but in retrospect, I wonder if they looked a lot worse than they really were since everything mic'd out to original specs.

  11. #71
    Glenn Delwood is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Quote Originally Posted by RippyPartsDept
    How much of a leak are you talking about? Seepage that does or doesn't drip on the ground? That's usually the deciding question.

    And even if you do go after the lower block seals I would recommend against bearing work unless you are adamant about it.
    It's probably small seepage that drips to the ground very slowly.
    I take it that splitting the bottom would be a real pain for a beginner like me?

  12. #72
    Glenn Delwood is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faded Crest
    He's close to 200k on the engine... It would be tough for me to go that deep and not do bearings.

    You will get a good look at the mains if you do split the block. At 105k, mine looked scored, but in retrospect, *I wonder if they looked a lot worse than they really were since everything mic'd out to original specs*.
    Are you saying that if they measure to something better than where the book said "worn" it's still alright to let them be?

    What kind of special tools are required for bearing work and bottom reselling?

    On a different note, after going through the 6-xx section of the FSM, I wonder if pulling the engine through the top wouldn't be a better option. Is the transmission very hard to separate with the engine inside?

  13. #73
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    Re: 1999 concours HG decision.

    I wonder if pulling the engine through the top
    wouldn't be a better option


    a couple of the guys tried it that way -
    their responses were if they were to do it again -
    drop the cradle -

  14. #74
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    Re: 1999 concours HG decision.

    No special tools are needed to remove the lower case, but some parts will require replacement, like I posted earlier.

  15. #75
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    Re: 1999 concours HG decision.

    so it does drip - how much?

    a puddle overnight?
    or a drop or two overnight?
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