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Cadillac DeVille 1985 to 2005 including:
1985-1992 Fleetwood, 1993 Sixty Special, All FWD Forum Discussion, 98 Deville Temperatures??? Only has 73K. in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; You want to talk blown head gaskets. I'll tell you right now not many Ford 6.0L went beyond 100k too ...
  1. #16
    dennis93coupe's Avatar
    dennis93coupe is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 98 Deville Temeratures??? Only has 73K.

    You want to talk blown head gaskets. I'll tell you right now not many Ford 6.0L went beyond 100k too many miles without either injectors, turbo, high pressure pump and or seals, EGR cooler, and yes head gaskets and warped heads. I had one in a fleet that only made it 30k, of course warranry covered it, but still...

  2. #17
    drewsdeville is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: 98 Deville Temeratures??? Only has 73K.

    Quote Originally Posted by chasd View Post
    Premature failure of major components due to a design flaw should be remedied by the manufacturer not covered up which apparently is the case with the early N*.
    I concur, and this has been a sore point for GM's recent past. The N* isn't the only example, but it's a good one. This engine was manufactured for just short of two decades - and from what we see on this board, we can conclude that most of it's problems (even beyond the HG's) repeated themselves for a significant amount of time.

    Every machine has problems, but it's better to see the problems change/shift every few years as the manufacturer acknowledges and remedies rather than see the problems repeat themselves as they are put off.

  3. #18
    basscatt's Avatar
    basscatt is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: 98 Deville Temeratures??? Only has 73K.

    Quote Originally Posted by chasd View Post
    Really??? Say my HG blows and car dies in the middle of the freeway......that's not dangerous? Standing in front of my broke down car on the side of the road with cars whizzing by? Not dangerous? How MANY cops get mowed down pulling over motorist to write tickets?

    Do you work for GM?
    ----------------------------------
    Do you work for GM?
    NO - I don't work for GM - never have -
    but I do have a 25 year background in servicing cars -
    before changing to computers -

    I got rich replacing blown head gaskets
    on the first iron-block aluminum-head OHC engines -

    I made a fortune on replacing timing belts -
    even better was when the timing belt broke on an interference motor -

    do YOU have any idea of how many car makes and models
    suffer from blown head gaskets?

    the correct answer is - THEY ALL DO -

    the biggest reason everyone knows about the Northstar problem
    is because it costs a lot more to fix than the other brands

    Standing in front of my broke down car
    on the side of the road with cars whizzing by?
    Not dangerous?

    not only is it INCREDIBLY dangerous - IT IS NOT SMART -

    NEVER stand IN FRONT of your broken-down car on the side of the road -
    ALWAYS stand BEHIND it - that way you can see on-coming traffic -

    like I said - I am NOT defending GM in any way -
    you are pissed because you just had to toss out a couple grand on engine repairs -
    I would be pissed too - but at some point - you just accept it and move on -

  4. #19
    chasd is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 98 Deville Temeratures??? Only has 73K.

    Premature failure of major components due to a design flaw
    should be remedied by the manufacturer
    so - how long should a factory warranty be?
    5 year/50K
    10 year/100K
    15 year/150K
    you would need the 15 year warranty to just squeak in -
    next question -
    how much EXTRA are you willing to spend
    on a new car that has a 15 year warranty - $10,000 - $5000 -

    I'm not talking about extending the warranty. I'm talking about fixing a well known, pervasive, expensive fix due to GM's failure to acknowledge a flaw in THEIR own design execution. As for purchasing a new car. I did once in my life. A 2008 Nissan Rogue. I had a 240Z, my parents have had 2 Maximas' and all of those have been VERY reliable well over 100K miles. I would recommend them to anyone based on my experience. Cadillac.....not so much.

    I'm glad to hear that all automotive manufacturers are only interested in all the money they make on new cars. I guess they perform the non-profit work of servicing and selling parts because they are fine corporate citizens. Please! Take a course in Economics. Most of the money dealers make are on USED vehicles and parts and service.

  5. #20
    basscatt's Avatar
    basscatt is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: 98 Deville Temeratures??? Only has 73K.

    Quote Originally Posted by chasd View Post
    Premature failure of major components due to a design flaw
    should be remedied by the manufacturer
    so - how long should a factory warranty be?
    5 year/50K
    10 year/100K
    15 year/150K
    you would need the 15 year warranty to just squeak in -
    next question -
    how much EXTRA are you willing to spend
    on a new car that has a 15 year warranty - $10,000 - $5000 -

    I'm not talking about extending the warranty. I'm talking about fixing a well known, pervasive, expensive fix due to GM's failure to acknowledge a flaw in THEIR own design execution. As for purchasing a new car. I did once in my life. A 2008 Nissan Rogue. I had a 240Z, my parents have had 2 Maximas' and all of those have been VERY reliable well over 100K miles. I would recommend them to anyone based on my experience. Cadillac.....not so much.

    I'm glad to hear that all automotive manufacturers are only interested in all the money they make on new cars. I guess they perform the non-profit work of servicing and selling parts because they are fine corporate citizens. Please! Take a course in Economics. Most of the money dealers make are on USED vehicles and parts and service.
    ------------------------------------
    I'm not talking about extending the warranty.
    I'm talking about fixing a well known, pervasive, expensive fix

    so - your car is now 15 years old - and if I understand your point of view -
    Cadillac should be paying to have your head gaskets repaired - not you -
    and the age of the car has nothing to do with it -

    with that reasoning - how long should Cadillac be held responsible - forever?

    Take a course in Economics.
    Most of the money dealers make
    are on USED vehicles and parts and service.

    we were talking about GM -
    specifically Cadillac Motor Division - NOT dealers -

    Cadillac Motor Division of GM doesn't make a penny on a used car -

    a Cadillac DEALERSHIP can make money on service and parts -
    but the FINANCE DEPARTMENT probably generates more PROFIT -
    and yes - the USED CAR department can also be profitable -
    but MOST of the PROFIT comes from new car sales -
    ------------------
    I TOTALLY agree with the Nissan reliability -
    they were one of the few imports that stayed with the timing chain -
    rather than going with the timing belt years ago -

    I ALWAYS recommend Nissan for a good cheap reliable used car -
    with a good maintenance program - they run forever

  6. #21
    chasd is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 98 Deville Temperatures??? Only has 73K.

    A lively debate is always nice.

    I understand your point regarding the age of my car. I don't think any manufacturer should be responsible for fixing a 15 year old car. My point is that GM has known of this problem for more than 15 years yet has done nothing to remedy the problem except modifying the design after the fact to minimize the issue (not eliminate) in order to lessen the financial impact to GM not the owners. Obviously, there are unforeseen circumstances that impact many manufacturers (Raybestos, Corvair, Pinto's, thalidomide, etc.) in almost every case they deny the problem until they can no longer do so. Right or wrong. Covering their ass is the responsible thing to do? I know that when I **** up I try to admit it and repair whatever impact I made on the situation. Not because I'm forced to. It's called conscience. An area where so many people and corporations seem to be lacking.

  7. #22
    basscatt's Avatar
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    Re: 98 Deville Temperatures??? Only has 73K.

    Quote Originally Posted by chasd View Post
    A lively debate is always nice.

    I understand your point regarding the age of my car. I don't think any manufacturer should be responsible for fixing a 15 year old car. My point is that GM has known of this problem for more than 15 years yet has done nothing to remedy the problem except modifying the design after the fact to minimize the issue (not eliminate) in order to lessen the financial impact to GM not the owners. Obviously, there are unforeseen circumstances that impact many manufacturers (Raybestos, Corvair, Pinto's, thalidomide, etc.) in almost every case they deny the problem until they can no longer do so. Right or wrong. Covering their ass is the responsible thing to do? I know that when I **** up I try to admit it and repair whatever impact I made on the situation. Not because I'm forced to. It's called conscience. An area where so many people and corporations seem to be lacking.
    ----------------------------------
    I know that when I **** up I try to admit it
    and repair whatever impact I made on the situation.
    Not because I'm forced to. It's called conscience.
    An area where so many people and corporations seem to be lacking


    you make a valid point - accept responsibility - and make it right -
    one that I also lived by when managing auto repair shops -

    however - we don't have "bean counters" and lawyers hovering over us -
    watching our every move -

  8. #23
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    blalockchiro is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    boys boys boys...play nice like momma said

  9. #24
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    CadillacLuke24 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 98 Deville Temperatures??? Only has 73K.

    Quote Originally Posted by chasd View Post
    A lively debate is always nice.

    I understand your point regarding the age of my car. I don't think any manufacturer should be responsible for fixing a 15 year old car. My point is that GM has known of this problem for more than 15 years yet has done nothing to remedy the problem except modifying the design after the fact to minimize the issue (not eliminate) in order to lessen the financial impact to GM not the owners. Obviously, there are unforeseen circumstances that impact many manufacturers (Raybestos, Corvair, Pinto's, thalidomide, etc.) in almost every case they deny the problem until they can no longer do so. Right or wrong. Covering their ass is the responsible thing to do? I know that when I **** up I try to admit it and repair whatever impact I made on the situation. Not because I'm forced to. It's called conscience. An area where so many people and corporations seem to be lacking.
    Good on ya Lively debates are nice, and it is even better when the players are reasonable. basscatt, as always, has excellent points. Must be something about those guys.

    FWIW, I think that due to Toyota's and Honda's rampant success in the 90s (and inevitably Lexus' and Acura's), GM cut WAY TOO MANY DAMN CORNERS when building cars. Quality was decent up to, oh, about 96 or 97, based on reviews I've read and experiences I've had. Then, like GM was banking on Y2K, that or they were waiting for new models, Quality control really dropped. My Dad had a 99 Concours that fried the A/C at 90K, and despite the mileage difference, He said my 96 with (then) 39K seemed way "better built". Just how things worked back then.

    What really grinds my gears is that the MORON who ran GM back then thought cars and trucks could be marketed like toothbrushes and other household items. Where I think the crapfest starts here is when they design cars accordingly. What do you do when your toothbrush, coffeemaker, or washing machine begins to act up? Replace it. Cars, from what I've seen, tend to do so about 100,000 miles these days. Maybe earlier with 90s cars. As far as time goes, probably about 5-6 years, but I'm not too sure there. Ergo, Cadillac had to design cars to reliably last that long, because at that point they will be beyond warranty, in the used car market, both, or in the junkyard. and VOILA, Gm is off the hook.

    Like basscatt said, they primarily make their money off new cars, likely due to their increasing reputation as legal robbery when it comes to parts and service. Should they have to pay for your headgaskets that failed at 73K, given that it's a likely a design flaw? I'd say yes. Are they going to? No. Can you sue them and win? No, because failure rate, again as basscatt said, is "relatively" insignificant. It may be 100% for you, but for others, myself included, it's 0% And the 0%ers far outnumber you guys, which sucks for you.

    I feel your pain. My baby's sittin' in the transmission shop over in Cheyenne because of a wiring harness that failed inside the transmission. That and there are other covers inside the main left cover that need replacing per GM. They certainly could have designed sturdier transmission parts that can be reused, and boy have I cussed GM out for it Unfortunately, we can do nothing about it. We must move on, which really sucks in our case. I hope your Northstar is better than ever and you get a trillion miles out of it if need be

    I like your last statement. It is VERY true these days. We need the days when people were honest, upfront, and their word was better than gold.

  10. #25
    chasd is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 98 Deville Temperatures??? Only has 73K.

    Well, now that I've got the pissing and moaning out of the way (my soap box is back in the garage) what other common repairs can I expect once my lovely N* is operating? I have read about the chassis issues some have had. My car spent its entire life in CA and I cannot see any evidence of rust. The only issues that I have besides the engine are the antenna needs to be rebuilt, I need to replace a headlight lens (oxidation), and I get the "theft system problem car may not restart" message on the DIC (car always starts).

    PS: The car has 75K on it as we speak, a few cosmetic dings but otherwise close to perfect.

  11. #26
    basscatt's Avatar
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    Re: 98 Deville Temperatures??? Only has 73K.

    if you want to spend some quality time learning about tips and tricks
    for your Caddy - check out the TechTips - here:
    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...lac-tech-tips/

    and everything you might want to know about your engine can be found here:
    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...al-discussion/

  12. #27
    chasd is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 98 Deville Temperatures??? Only has 73K.

    Thanks BC. I have read more about this engine than I care to know. I also have the ability to use the search function. My only problem is that I have to sort through all the other issues not necessarily related to what I'm asking. Maybe because I'm not looking for something specific, I get the entire "phonebook"???

  13. #28
    mike5514 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: 98 Deville Temperatures??? Only has 73K.

    Four OEM shocks installed will set you back almost 1800 dollars 12 year old car with a N R&R not bad it use to cost between 3&4 thousand. Mike

  14. #29
    cmwiess is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 98 Deville Temperatures??? Only has 73K.

    Once the warranty is up doesn't matter what manufacturer it is they don't care
    also think about it dealers make the most money from repairs
    if you were designing a car would you make everything a PIA to work on?
    this is done to keep the average person tied to the dealership for maintenance and other work

    I started working on cars with points and carbs I have had to teach myself fuel injection systems trouble shooting electrical systems . I prefer to work on things myself this way I know it has been fixed right.
    I was taught this from my father in order to get my first car and license I had to know how to rebuild an engine.

  15. #30
    Slipgate is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: 98 Deville Temperatures??? Only has 73K.

    I own a 2006 Dodge Charger Daytona that I bought brand-new (just turned 39k miles). My daily driver is my 1998 DeVille. For all its flaws, most of which are maintenance related, I still love to drive it. I was sold the car because the previous owner thought it had a blown head-gasket and was dumping it on me. Turns out it didn't (just a leaking water pump) and I got the better of the deal. I have been driving it for over 5 years and put close to 30k on it. I will drive it until it drops which could be another month or another 5 years.

    GM and all manufacturers cater to new car buyers. A new Cadillac has a very specific audience. I highly doubt they care nor are most even aware that there are head-gasket issues with the N*. Is this planned obsolescence? I doubt the head bolt design flaw is intentional. And I would guess that very few original owners have experience the blown HG. Sales were not hurt one bit but it. But one truth is that new and used buyers of Cadillacs are different people and pretty much the twain shall never meet. If you want a long warranty, buy a Hyundai. You get what you pay for.

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