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Cadillac DeVille 1985 to 2005 including:
1985-1992 Fleetwood, 1993 Sixty Special, All FWD Forum Discussion, 2005 DeVille Rear Shocks, just replaced & got some questions in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Originally Posted by thedill Will A7 / C2 be clearly labeled? Or can I get a little guidance? Thanks again, ...
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    Re: 2005 DeVille Rear Shocks, just replaced & got some questions

    Quote Originally Posted by thedill View Post
    Will A7 / C2 be clearly labeled? Or can I get a little guidance?
    Thanks again, guys.
    It may not be clearly labeled, sometimes the print/emboss is real small. C2 should stand for the label of the connector, A7 should be the pin in the connector. Sometimes you have to look inside the connector at the pins in order to see the label/emboss of the individual pins.

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    Re: 2005 DeVille Rear Shocks, just replaced & got some questions

    Quote Originally Posted by thedill View Post
    Will A7 / C2 be clearly labeled?
    There are 2 electrical connectors on the RIM... C1 (Connector 1) and C2 (Connector 2).

    A7 is the pin number in C2... it's a yellow wire.

    The connector below is C2... C1 has less pins.

    RIM Connector C2.gif

    Your going to save so much time and money if you invest in a Helm FSM for your 2005 Deville or subscribe to alldata. It will easily pay for itself the first time you need it.

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    Re: 2005 DeVille Rear Shocks, just replaced & got some questions

    Yes, I will be getting the FSM soon, it's silly not to have it if one does this work themselves.

    So - I see a bunch on e-bay and I've seen the admonishment (on the forum) to refrain from the CD-ROMs; I like the hard copy anyway so that's what I'll get. Can I get one that covers a range of years, I am thinking I want a 2005 year only, but I don't know if they come that way or what? I am ready to pull the trigger but I want to make the right shot.
    Info I am currently going off of:

    Get a 2005 Helm FSM.

    Any elaboration would be appreciated.

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    Re: 2005 DeVille Rear Shocks, just replaced & got some questions

    Quote Originally Posted by thedill View Post
    Can I get one that covers a range of years, I am thinking I want a 2005 year only, but I don't know if they come that way or what?
    A paper copy of the Helm FSM will only cover one model year. So you want to look for a 2005 Deville Service Manual it will be a 2 book set.

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    Smile Re: 2005 DeVille Rear Shocks, just replaced & got some questions

    OK - the RIM is accessed and I am about to go out to the shop and do some ground tests. As a preventative - let's say I get continuity from A7 to T10 (this is what the RIM is supposed to provided the ground via, right? And then I ground A7 and the compressor energizes; that means the RIM is bad or not providing a good ground?

    Essentially I am trying to get at is what might come next, so that I can go right to it...

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    Re: 2005 DeVille Rear Shocks, just replaced & got some questions

    Quote Originally Posted by thedill View Post
    I ground A7 and the compressor energizes; that means the RIM is bad or not providing a good ground?
    If you ground A7 with the key in the on position and the compressor comes on it means the wiring between the RIM and relay is good. You still could have a bad RIM or position sensor or wiring between the position sensor and RIM.


    Quote Originally Posted by thedill View Post
    Essentially I am trying to get at is what might come next, so that I can go right to it...
    If it where me doing the troubleshooting my next step would be to reconnect the RIM and disconnect the position sensor and jumper...

    pin C to B (applies a low or ground to pin B)

    Then...

    pin A to B (applies a high or 5 volts to pin B)

    One of these combinations should cause the compressor to turn on if the key is in the on position. When you do any of this testing leave it hooked up for a minute or so. I believe there may be a time delay in the RIM before the compressor kicks on.

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    Re: 2005 DeVille Rear Shocks, just replaced & got some questions

    OK.

    First, for clarification - the A7 pin (that connects to T10) is on the big connector, for future reference (A7 on the small connector is blank)
    Checked continuity from A7 to T10, it was good. Applied a ground at A7 and the compressor energized as would be expected.

    Probed the ELC sensor (the voltage supplier that connects to the suspension, shown earlier in the thread) - it had 5 volts at it.


    So my diagnoses is: the RIM is bad.

    Here is the RIM (unplugged):


    this is where it's located in the trunk (it's located on this plastic bracket which is shown unbolted from the passenger seat back)(note the passenger side shock mount, for reference):


    Here is the RIM on a work bench (the big connector (12pin) is the top one on the right-hand-side (of this picture)):


    Here is the inside of the RIM - can anyone see what's wrong with the circuit board, I can't... ):


    that's a joke!




    ----------

    So I am guessing I need a RIM, anyone got ideas on prices for these (Chris @ Rippy - you out there) I am going to search for used ones...

    ----------

    $167-ish @
    http://www.gmpartsgiant.com/parts/gm...-21996860.html

    that's not so good but I guess it could be worse, right?... not ordering one yet; hopefully/maybe someone will spot something I missed that might still be a fix, but I'm not counting on it.

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    Re: 2005 DeVille Rear Shocks, just replaced & got some questions

    With a little closer photo of the RIM circuit board may be able to see what is wrong with it, seriously.

    When you removed the RIM, was there a separate ground wire you had to disconnect?

    If you look at your schematic, the RIM in particular towards the right where you see A7 & C2, the symbol that looks like a ball with hash marks below it is the ground. You will see two of them next to each other, one for the compressor and the other for the exhaust. The arrows near the ground symbol that look like a pendulum is representing a relay on the circuit board of the RIM. These could very well be micro relays, or a little bigger. If it were me, I would locate those relays, flip the circuit board over and then identify the pins for the relays and then determine whether or not I could re-solder them on to the circuit board before I replaced the RIM. The RIM energizes the relays when required, which in turn moves the pendulum therefore supplying the ground to the compressor.

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    Re: 2005 DeVille Rear Shocks, just replaced & got some questions

    O.F.
    - the RIM didn't have a "separate" ground, it only had the two connectors, I would surmise the ground wire is within one of them.

    I like your thinking - and I might give it a shot; I got lost when I tried to follow A7 thru the board, but I didn't give it the closest scrutiny, I may look again. If I did locate a "micro-relay" where'd you suggest getting a replacement, Radio Shack? This kind of work though is not my forte, I'll prolly just spring for a new RIM.

    As for a close up pict of the RIM, I'd hafta pull it again (it's temporarily zip-tied on the outside of the bracket - til this issue is solved) and I might, but I examined it in the optimistic approach that something would be discernible, it wasn't, lol.

    Thanks for the guidance, nonetheless!


    ----------

    BTW - anybody know what this is? It's a Motorola product.


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    Re: 2005 DeVille Rear Shocks, just replaced & got some questions

    Quote Originally Posted by 00 Deville View Post
    If it where me doing the troubleshooting my next step would be to reconnect the RIM and disconnect the position sensor and jumper...

    pin C to B (applies a low or ground to pin B)

    Then...

    pin A to B (applies a high or 5 volts to pin B)

    One of these combinations should cause the compressor to turn on if the key is in the on position. When you do any of this testing leave it hooked up for a minute or so. I believe there may be a time delay in the RIM before the compressor kicks on.
    Did you try applying a ground or 5 volts to pin B of the position sensor connector as described above? One of these combinations should command the compressor on.

    If you still have the RIM opened up this could also be accomplished by jumpering B6 (ground) or A6 (5volts)of connector C1 to A9 (position feedback input) of connector C2.


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    Re: 2005 DeVille Rear Shocks, just replaced & got some questions

    [/COLOR]BTW - anybody know what this is? It's a Motorola product.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think that's the Onstar module also called VCIM
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    Re: 2005 DeVille Rear Shocks, just replaced & got some questions

    Quote Originally Posted by 00 Deville View Post
    Did you try applying a ground or 5 volts to pin B of the position sensor connector as described above? One of these combinations should command the compressor on.

    If you still have the RIM still opened up this could also be accomplished by jumpering B6 (ground) or A6 (5volts) to A9 (position feedback input) of connector C1.
    I didn't apply a ground or 5V to pin B of the position sensor connector, that test got 'lost' in the process.

    I will do that, I will definitely do your latter suggestion first though, jumping at the RIM will be a very good test. Funny - looking at the diagram you re-posted (and I had printed out) I am now seeing all the connection labels (C1 and C2) and the A7, A9, B6 etc. pin male & females - for some reason I wasn't picking up on (a lot of) those before - but now that schematic is even more elucidating!

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    Re: 2005 DeVille Rear Shocks, just replaced & got some questions

    Quote Originally Posted by thedill View Post
    I didn't apply a ground or 5V to pin B of the position sensor connector, that test got 'lost' in the process.
    I'm not sure if it's going to take a ground or 5 volts applied to pin A9 to turn the compressor on since GM doesn't show all the logic inside the RIM. Try both... one at a time of course and see if you can convince the RIM to turn on the compressor. Remember the key needs to be on and give the RIM a minute or so to respond... I remember reading something about a time delay inside the RIM.

    ----------

    For future reference if you look at the schematic... inside the RIM you will see a small box that says...

    Connector ID
    C1=16 BLU
    C2=24 GRY


    C1=16 BLU This means that connector C1 is a blue connector that has 16 spaces for electrical contacts.
    C2=24 GRY This means that connector C2 is a gray connector that has 24 spaces for electrical contacts.

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    Re: 2005 DeVille Rear Shocks, just replaced & got some questions

    Thanks 00.
    Out of curiosity - any idea what those hamburger looking things shown in the wires and labeled: P400 & P401 are?

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    Re: 2005 DeVille Rear Shocks, just replaced & got some questions

    Quote Originally Posted by thedill View Post
    Out of curiosity - any idea what those hamburger looking things shown in the wires and labeled: P400 & P401 are?
    I believe the "hamburger looking things" on the schematic represent that the wires go thru a rubber grommet at that point. Most likely where they transition from inside the cabin to outside the cabin exposed to the elements. I believe the P400 and P401 are labels that designate the particular feed-thru (hole in the sheetmetal) that the grommet is installed in.

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