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Cadillac DeVille 1985 to 2005 including:
1985-1992 Fleetwood, 1993 Sixty Special, All FWD Forum Discussion, Northstar Wont Pass Smog Emissions in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; How many miles you got? You know, I posted something in the N* section about the throttle position sensor. If ...
  1. #16
    99Classillac's Avatar
    99Classillac is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Northstar Wont Pass Smog Emissions

    How many miles you got? You know, I posted something in the N* section about the throttle position sensor. If its going bad it can throw your idle off and kill mileage as well because it tells the pcm wrong throttle settings so the pcm is sending the IAC valve wrong settings. It will also throw a code. Well it did on mine, P0121 I believe. My check engine light did come on too. It's a $30 part. Can't hurt to take a look at that as well.

    Hey Sub, we're both in MD. I have to do the dyno emission test. You dont? They put it on the maching and drive it for like 15 minutes on the machine. Maybe they hook their scanner to the car and that disables it from throwing codes. I know when I enter diagnostic mode in my car while I am driving, I never throw a code, but as soon as I exit diagnostic, whatever code is nagging, will sure enough pop right up.

  2. #17
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    Re: Northstar Wont Pass Smog Emissions

    Our County Commissioners bought into the phony green EPA "opt-in" program, so although Queen Anne's County air is far cleaner than EPA mandates, the county gets some sort of Federal kickback and the California (contractor) testing company gets megabucks...................The entire emissions testing system is the biggest scam ever foisted on the car driving public, but it keeps the greenies happy - at our expense.

    There's no more dyno test over here; it's all OBD port plug-in. The state test stations removed the dynos 8 months ago.

    DO NOT go into diagnostics while driving - the load and temp fluctuations screw things up royally - best to do it in the driveway, engine OFF, ignition switch ON..................and DO NOT "clear codes" within two weeks or more of a test; the system needs a bunch of start-run cycles to present a "ready" code to the test set........... reset the system on the way to the test station and you will fail, guaranteed.

    Don't forget that there are two code designations: C for Current, and H for History. There is a big difference.
    RedG49 and RedG49 like this.

  3. #18
    CoupeD is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Northstar Wont Pass Smog Emissions

    Quote Originally Posted by MCD0MINGUEZ View Post
    All my Emission Control Systems passed according to my visual/functional check results.

    But my ASM Emission test failed at 25 mph [RPM 1121, %CO2 14.8, %O2 0.1, HC (PPM) MAX 31 AVE 4 MEAS 50, CO (%) MAX 0.43 AVE 0.01 MEAS 0.11, NO (PPM) MAX 687 AVE 18 MEAS 24] FAIL

    Also my 15 mph HC (PPM) test barely passed at MAX 47 AVE 4 MEAS 47


    If anything was wrong w/ the TPS or any part it would throw you a code. Its OBD II system and their checks are really thorough.

    Ya nox is EGR

    HC is fuel mixture.

    If there are no codes the O2 sensor is fine. If the car has a MAF sensor you can spray some throttle body cleaner inside the MAF sensor channel cause sometimes dirt builds up and causes your car to think its running lean.

    I would go the full route and get hooked up to a true injection cleaning machine.

    And I'm talking about a true machine like

    Not one of those stupid upside down hairspray bottles.

    If that don't work it might be a cat

    But if you get a real motorvac fuel injection cleaning it should really work. Plus it will increase your gas mileage and performance.

    JUST MAKES SURE after they run the cleaning you take the car for a good 1/2 hour ride and make sure he runs the car hot so the cat is properly ignited, all the gunk is cleaned out from the injection cleaning and your O2s are at proper temperature.

    Your car should never be inspected cold. ALWAYS at full running temperature.

  4. #19
    ewill3rd is offline Cadillac Technician
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    Re: Northstar Wont Pass Smog Emissions

    Several things about this thread concern me.
    First I want to know why they are doing an ASM test on an OBD-II vehicle.
    Next I want to know why a dealer told you they adjusted the "idle screw", that would be completely insane.
    Granted on an emissions inspection they are subject to random ASM tests, but I have never seen it happen. You might call CARB and ask them why your inspection stations are doing an ASM test on your car.

    Idle control problems have nothing to do with the "screw", if there is an idle problem it is a control problem and no amount of screw turning will fix it, the computer will just attempt to compensate for it and now your minimum air flow rate is trashed.

    Were I you, I would clear all the codes, then drive it, then DIAGNOSE the codes properly rather than throwing parts at it until it goes away.
    You need to find a competent tech who can properly diagnose the codes and find the root cause.

  5. #20
    CoupeD is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Northstar Wont Pass Smog Emissions

    Quote Originally Posted by ewill3rd View Post
    Several things about this thread concern me.
    First I want to know why they are doing an ASM test on an OBD-II vehicle.
    Next I want to know why a dealer told you they adjusted the "idle screw", that would be completely insane.
    Granted on an emissions inspection they are subject to random ASM tests, but I have never seen it happen. You might call CARB and ask them why your inspection stations are doing an ASM test on your car.

    Idle control problems have nothing to do with the "screw", if there is an idle problem it is a control problem and no amount of screw turning will fix it, the computer will just attempt to compensate for it and now your minimum air flow rate is trashed.

    Were I you, I would clear all the codes, then drive it, then DIAGNOSE the codes properly rather than throwing parts at it until it goes away.
    You need to find a competent tech who can properly diagnose the codes and find the root cause.
    Very good points here. I guess OBD II emmission state inspections are 50 state now?

  6. #21
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    Ranger is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Northstar Wont Pass Smog Emissions

    I don't have to have one.

  7. #22
    ewill3rd is offline Cadillac Technician
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    Re: Northstar Wont Pass Smog Emissions

    I know a lot more places are adopting "smog" programs. We only have it in certain counties in Northern Virginia, the rest of the state is not required to have them but DEQ is pushing the government to adopt it statewide.

    All of CA has one, I know MD has some sort of program in place and some places in TX also.

    The programs are usually similar. Some places use an I/M 240 dyno test but I know CA uses the same ASM test and OBD test program that we use.
    Our regulations are that any OBD-II car would typically be an "OBD" test only with a visual on the catalyst and a gas cap check.
    If the MIL is on and codes are current then it will fail. If the MIL doesn't work, it will fail. If the codes have been cleared by some sneaky pete trying to cheat, the flags won't set and it will reject from testing. OBD tests are subject to random ASM tests but I have never seen it.
    Typically the computer tells you what to do based on the vehicle info put in to the computer.

    I am just wondering why this car keeps getting an ASM test unless CARB has singled it out for some reason in the computer system.

    I think this program is pretty good in major population centers to help with air quality. I think it should be expanded to more rural areas also.
    Any amount of research will show that a very minor number of gross polluting cars contribute almost all of the airborne emissions. Most modern cars almost puff out cleaner air than they ingest to begin with... until people start jacking around with them.
    I know it is an unpopular opinion but.... there you go.

  8. #23
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    Re: Northstar Wont Pass Smog Emissions

    A significant part of the country is not required to perform emissions testing OR dispense reformulated gasolines.

    Go to www.epa.gov/otaq/rfg/whereyoulive.htm

    The site is a bit old, but you will find links to other regional and state sites which have testing and gasoline information.

    Bill, MD (around the Beltway and Baltimore) is emissions test - a couple of other counties have opted into the program because of the federal tax kickback bribe to use the program, and the California company that runs the test stations for MDOT lobbied heavily for the program. At $14 for the test, which takes a max of 5 minutes, that's a potential $166 an hour per test lane- not exactly peanuts for totally free state and contractor income.

  9. #24
    ewill3rd is offline Cadillac Technician
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    Re: Northstar Wont Pass Smog Emissions

    Have they ever done I/M 240? That is a pretty intensive test.
    So they do an OBD check now?
    We get paid the same rate if it is a 2 speed idle, ASM dyno, or an OBD test.
    Thankfully at a dealer we only see newer cars so most of them are OBD, but we get some old 4.9's that come in needing the EGR ports cleaned out.

    I am a certified repair technician so I can do waiver repairs too. We don't see a lot of those though.
    Biggest issue I have is knuckleheads clearing codes after a repair.. DOH!

  10. #25
    CoupeD is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Northstar Wont Pass Smog Emissions

    Quote Originally Posted by ewill3rd View Post
    Have they ever done I/M 240? That is a pretty intensive test.
    So they do an OBD check now?
    We get paid the same rate if it is a 2 speed idle, ASM dyno, or an OBD test.
    Thankfully at a dealer we only see newer cars so most of them are OBD, but we get some old 4.9's that come in needing the EGR ports cleaned out.

    I am a certified repair technician so I can do waiver repairs too. We don't see a lot of those though.
    Biggest issue I have is knuckleheads clearing codes after a repair.. DOH!
    Ya hahaha!

    I thanked god when they went to OBD. Running the dyno was so damn expensive cause it broke down so frequently.

  11. #26
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    Re: Northstar Wont Pass Smog Emissions

    I don't know about the Baltimore/Montgomery County area, but over here on the Shore the opt-in counties have removed the dynos from the test stations - it's all OBD now. $14 for a 5 minute plug-in is a ripoff. So simple even a caveman could do it.

    Antique, resto, and kit cars are exempt anyway, so time has caught up with the system and it's all electronic now.

  12. #27
    ewill3rd is offline Cadillac Technician
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    Re: Northstar Wont Pass Smog Emissions

    Even when we do an OBD we still have to do a visual on the cat, check the numbers on the car and test the fuel cap in addition to the OBD check.
    I hate the old stuff, but sometimes they do pass.

  13. #28
    Mark C's Avatar
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    Re: Northstar Wont Pass Smog Emissions

    You shouldn't complain about 14 bucks, ours is 29 bucks in Massachusetts every 12 months. Havent seen a fee less than 15 dollars since about 1985. Everything back to 1986 gets tested. Have to use the tailpipe sniffer on the pre OBD2 cars, so that takes a while for those cars to be done. My 69 just gets a safety inspection, lights, ball joints, parking brake, etc, no emissions.

  14. #29
    Insp4 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Northstar Wont Pass Smog Emissions

    Something simple might help also. Change the fuel filter. And if problem persists, move to another State!

  15. #30
    carnut is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Northstar Wont Pass Smog Emissions

    That was a 2 1/2 year old thread. Either the poster or the car's dead!!! Like most threads, we never find out what was done to fix the original complaint?

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