91' Starting Problem

[revdowrong]

Well guys thanks for all of your input. I'm still trying to chase this problem down. Upon doing some searching for all of the grounds in the FSM, I notice I'm missing a ground wire all together. Its the braided ground strap for the A/C and engine metal temp. switch, which I intend to get from the bone yard first thing in the morning. I did figure out my low voltage readout due to the A/C having R134a freon, due too its thickness and the strain it puts on the alternator and compressor and clutch causes my car to work a lot harder to keep the 12.5 volts. The way to remedy this is by installing a 3rd fan in front of the condenser or by switching to a different freon like freeze 12. Oh and it can't be the leveling system because i replaced the air struts and tubing 5 months ago. Now the rear sits level and i rarely hear the air pump come on unless i have some one sit in the back. Other wise with the a/c off and lights on I get 12.5 volts. I did get the alternator checked out again just to be sure and it passed. The one thing that baffles me is the starter enable relay. When i went to take it off the relay kept clicking in my hand while i was moving the wires that connect to it. I don't think this is normal but i do need to trace the path of the wires to see if there is a short.

[cadillac_al]

12.5 volts is minimal voltage; just on the borderline of pass/fail. I would fail it. If the AC is on does the voltage go lower than that? That alternator sounds too weak to me. My 92 has R134 in it and it has no effect on the engine.

[JTL1043]

Use wire brush on that relay termemals and it mounts .you can replace that ground wire with #12 stranded wire long for movement . I have 134 in mine and have no load down at run or start up remember if you tap that relay and it chatters with key on its week or bad. bend their done that myself it has to stay ingaged to pass voltage and current . the reason I menchend the level system I had rear strut leaking down my self my 91 got 159000 on her .
John

[revdowrong]

No with my A/C on i get roughly 11.4 to 12.0 in drive, but in park its 10.6 to 11.5 that's A/c and lights on. I personally thing the voltage regulator is no good in the alternator but advance auto parts says the alt. is good and i have lifetime warranty with them. Does any body know how to f up a alternator so it fails the test. just kidding....no seriously i need to mess this thing up to get a new one .Oh the last time I had 13 volts the alternator was declared bad. The bearings in the alt. where no good but damn the volt. regulator was good.

[Cream_Devil_91]

Originally Posted by revdowrong

No with my A/C on i get roughly 11.4 to 12.0 in drive, but in park its 10.6 to 11.5 that's A/c and lights on.

Those are not good numbers, you should be getting in the 13-14.5 range with a functioning alternator. Like I said before I had this exact same problem, and a new alternator fixed me right up. Bite the bullet and getcha a new one put in!

[AMENCADDY]

Originally Posted by revdowrong

... but advance auto parts says the alt. is good ....

take it somewhere else where they will give you a print out or something that proves it is not good. U should definitely get between 13-14.5 with the car running and all light on. anything less than 12 volts is actually your battery discharging, NOT the alternator doing it's job. In other words, you are running off Battery power, not the alternator.

[cadillac_al]

Drive the car to Advanced Auto and show them that their alternator test isn't accurate because yours isn't putting out enough voltage; plain and simple. Tell them you are not leaving the store AGAIN with that defective alternator. They are wasting your time.

[AMENCADDY]

Right on, Al !!! Much better idea and less labor intensive than my suggestion. If necessary throw a full blown tantrum in front of all their customers and I guarantee, you will get a new alternator in short order.

[revdowrong]

OK will do because now its getting worse especially at night 10.4, that's lights and A/C on. Heck even the dash lights dim. its terrible, lucky for me i don't do a lot of evening driving.

[JTL1043]

Ha just though of It that Alternator comes in Two Verisions one a 90 amp hr and a 120 Amp hr You need the 120 amp unit and they like to put the wrong Pulley on the 120 for latter models I had to Have my pulley changed to get the Right amp Hr.and what the other gentelmen stated about voltage and Yelling In front goes this Has Been way to long for you to Have this Problem Auto Zone or ho ever owes you big time for their Misstake.
John

[AMENCADDY]

Autozone has dropped way to the bottom of my list. I have one of their starters in my Cadillac with less than 100 miles and already diagnosed with "overheating-clunk-syndrome". It sucks so much current to start, my battery voltage drops down to 4 volts and the engine won't even crank. I don't know whether to throw the $75 piece of crap away and buy a "real" starter or rebuild it myself with bigger wires. I'm to the point that if the part has an "Autozone" sticker on it, I will request a different more reliable brand.

[revdowrong]

Yeah that's my problem too I got the starter from autozone years ago. Now there so called rebuilds starter is crap and I'm having these problems. AmenCaddy does your car start if you jump it? That's how i was getting mine to start when the starter took most of the juice from the battery. I 've even replaced the battery and I'm still having this problem. I'm going to try to get another alternator today and see if it fixs my low voltage problem I'm having.

[AMENCADDY]

On my caddy it doesn't even work to jump start any more. It used to but the starter had got so bad rapidly that I can't even do that any more.
Now my Lincoln, with the bigger 5.0L engine, and much smaller battery had a starting problem (turned out to be crappy cable clamps) and I could just haul around a spare battery when stranded and jump from that to get an instant start. but N-o-o-o--o not the Caddy any more. I took the starter out and may take it apart to have a look see.

[revdowrong]

OK guys I replaced the alternator earlier today because the old one did test out bad. But I'm still having my starting problem. And to top it off on the diagnostic read out E.0.7, which is battery voltage, is off by 1 volt compared to the digital volt meter. when the digital volt meter is 13.5, my car's diagnostic says 12.5. I don't get it, is this normal, I read the FSM and it states that E.0.7 should be the same with the digital volt meter. But its not, so where should I start looking? The FSM doesn't state anything about it so I'm confused, and to make matters worst I still have this damn starting problem.

[AMENCADDY]

Take your measurements after the car has been parked for an hour or so, then they should match.

13.5 v = Alternator with car running only. Your battery will drop down to it's normal voltage of around 12V as soon as you stop the engine. There are voltage regulators all over the place to protect the circuits from getting the alternator voltage which is too "hot" for delicate solid state circuitry and might fry things like the PCM if not regulated down to the many different voltages (5V, 16V, 12 volts etc.) needed to run everything. The alternator's purpose to put out more than that is to keep the battery topped up while everything else gets plenty of current flow at the same time.