Cadillac Detailing and Bodywork - Interior and Exterior including Body and Wheels Discussion, Repainting...... in Item Specific Cadillac Discussion; This will obviously be in the distant future (if it happens), but here's the deal...... My car, at some point ...
- 09-23-03 08:35 PM #1
This will obviously be in the distant future (if it happens), but here's the deal......
My car, at some point in time has been repainted....... nothing showed up on the Carfax........
I can tell this because its starting to chip in the rear, by the trunk..... One coat is going away, and the other is showing........ Their slightly different, and I think it looks terrible (even though you wouldnt notice unless you knew it was there, or was detailing the car).......
So..... What all would have to be done to strip it down to the metal, and then repaint it to the factory color..? How much am I looking at.?
- 09-23-03 10:49 PM #2
Only the most expensive job you can imagine.
That's why so many people just seal it, prime it, and repaint it. Problem is, that just doesn't last long. For long-term reliability of the finish, you'll need to strip the panel and start from the bottom up with fresh material. There's several shops that can "dip" car parts to strip them but in order to do the main body, you're looking at just plain work.
- 09-23-03 10:58 PM #3
Thanks....... So to get it done right and the way I want it would cost probably about as much as the car works...... or at least were looking well into the 4 digits......
I like the origional color better than what it is now...... Would it be possible to strip the top layer, and then repair the other one as neccessary.......?
- 10-12-03 03:09 PM #4Cadillac Owners Member
- Join Date
- Oct 2003
- Central Ohio
Completely stripping the vehicle really isn't necessary. I would recommend completely feathering back anywhere the paint is chipped. you would then prime any areas of bare metal, then use a sealer over the whole car. The sealer will help keep any "bleed through" from appearing under whatever color you choose.
I completely stripped my first car, and probably did more damage than good. When you get down to the bare metal, what you have done is stripped not only the paint, but the factory corrosion protection from the panel as well.
As long as the vehicle has been painted by qualified technicians, most times you can do at least 3 repaints on a panel before you start to run into problems. I think most factory paints are like 8-12 mils thickness, and you don't usually start having problems till like 24-30 mils thickness.
As far as cost goes, here in C-bus, OH our shop starts all over paint jobs at $3500.00 and goes up from there with increasing body work and additional paint time. We're a collision shop though, so some of that cost has to do with the fact that we don't want to do a whole lot of all overs. The upside though, is that we offer a lifetime guarantee on anything we do to the vehicle for as long as you own it.
ALWAYS LOOK FOR THE GUARANTEE. It is a good indication of how you will be treated in the future.
- 10-12-03 09:50 PM #5
What would say an average place to to prep it......? Again, is it possible to remove only one layer of paint (since I really like the color thats under it)....
- 10-12-03 10:51 PM #6
I seriously doubt that removing one layer is an option, Wes. What Fine Wine suggested is probably your best bet, considering the value and mileage of your car.
The prep work is where the real cost is involved in any paint job. Painting is easy. Preparing the surface so that the paint properly adheres to it is the hard, time-consuming part.
Unfortunately, no matter how hard they try, paint and body shops can't duplicate what the factory does when painting a car. With the techniques factories use today, paint can last the entire life of the car, if properly maintained by the owner(s). A really GOOD body shop job will probably only last ten years under ideal conditions.
Realistically, you're probably not going to be driving this car three years from now, so just get it touched up, maybe add a fresh layer of clear coat, keep it waxed and live with it. It should hold up that long.
Oh yeah, one other thing. I wouldn't spend less than $2000 at a reputable place if you're going to do the whole car. The biggest shops aren't necessarily the best, either. The best body guy I know moved here from Scotland and operates out of a 2 or 3 bay shop outside of town. He uses Jaguar paint because he says he can more accurately mix it to match ANY color from any auto manufacturer on the market.
And don't go to Earl Scheib.
- 10-12-03 11:13 PM #7
This is more/less in a perfect world..... If I do decide to keep the car forever (about a 50/50 chance either way), I wont really care what the paint is.... And if its nice enough to be a classic, I can spend the money later......
But...... In 6 months its gonna be a 10 year old car, so its value is really going to be insignificant (and at this point Ill be VERY happy if I get back what ive put into it)......
The paint is not at all bad....... It looks very nice, and shines very deep..... It just bothers me somewhat...... Infiniti uses some of the best painting process in the business, and to think someone had the nerve to repaint.....! AARG!!!!!
I may get the clearcoat redone, so that it wont chip, and possibly rust any further......
Does anyone know how much it would cost to have a clear coat job done???
- 10-13-03 01:09 PM #8Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
- Automobile(s): 94 ETC,97 STS
- Join Date
- Sep 2003
I've been out of the body shop business for a few years but I'll put my 2 cents in.
There are plenty of reasons someone may have repainted the car without it being badly damaged. A major question is what quality paint job was done. Since you only realized it was repainted because of the chips I think it was a good paint job. The other question is was it a total repaint or just a panel.
You said you see it at the trunk. Is there anywhere else it shows being repainted? If the trunk was replaced it may be a color from a different year Q45 ( I'm assuming it's the Q ) that you're seeing underneath.
If only the trunk lid was repainted you have several options. Since it doesn't look bad you could try to find another trunk in the exact color. Not very likely but you're not in a hurry.
You could strip and repaint the trunk lid only. Since the lid is easily removed it can be stripped either chemically, dipped, or blasted (not with sand ) without worrying about damaging other parts of the car.
I'd recommend stripping because you're seeing the paint chip. Repainting, even with sealers, leaves this layer on and the thicker the paint the easier it seems to chip.
- 10-13-03 01:15 PM #9
If you decide to get the car repainted. What you can do is to "prep the car for the body shop to save yourself some money. That is what i did for my 70 chevelle. saved me about 600 in total. Just a thought
- 10-13-03 06:16 PM #10Cadillac Owners Master
- Automobile(s): 1991 Cadillac Brougham D'Elegance 5.7 Litre, 1994 DeVille
- Join Date
- Jun 2003
You don't have to strip it down to bare metal just because of chips. Any decent body shop should be able to sand them out and clean them up so that you'd never know they were there.
If they didn't deal with the last coat right before it was repainted and it's chipping easily because of this a body shop can sand the problem paint off it also and then get it recovered and repainted to fix it.
How much any paint work costs depends on the area you're in, what kind of work they do, etc... get some estimates from some decent shops and go from there.
- 10-14-03 04:31 PM #11
The color im seeing (under the chipped paint) is the color its supposed to be!!! Its just slightly (excuse for a better term) redder than whats on it now...... It hasnt started chipping in other places....... Do they remove the clear coat before putting on a new layer of paint.... If so, then maybe it was just the trunk that was repainted (which i might have touched up, its got a ton of little scratches)......
Also, what could you do to "prep the car for paintwork"??
- 10-14-03 04:37 PM #12
Re: Repainting......Originally Posted by elwesso
- 10-15-03 05:13 PM #13Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
- Automobile(s): 94 ETC,97 STS
- Join Date
- Sep 2003
Prepping a car for paint, almost as involved as painting itself.
Some shops may not want you to do anything so make sure the shop is OK with anything you are doing.
Quickie paint jobs don't remove anything, do minimal cleaning and do a quickie tapeup of whatever isn't getting painted. Good paint jobs remove as much as possible that isn't getting painted and clean everything really well plus prepping the surface.
There are books available on paint and bodywork and it would be a good idea to get one. The library sometimes have them. I think Petersen publishing used to put one out in softcover but I havn't seen it lately, it was in the specialty books like rebuilding your N* or your smallblock Chevy.
Getting back to prepping...Take off all the chrome possible. On older cars a lot was bolt on but newer cars are mostly glue on, they can be cleaned and reglued. If you don't take them off clean around them extremely well. Use a brush, detergent and then wax and grease remover. Any dirt or wax causes peeling. Door handles and window moldings are the same. Some are very difficult to remove so do your best to clean around and under them. Wheel wells and door jambs are the same. Grille surround, trunk edges and hood edges all need to be cleaned. Soft bumper to fender lines need to be cleaned out. All this might not reduce what the shop is going to charge you because after sanding they wind up redoing it but you have ensured it is done well.
Sanding might be better left to the shop but if you want to do it you have to be careful. The paint is fairly even but when you start sanding you can make it very wavy. If you try to sand out chips you are putting waves in it. Spot putty is better to fill the chips. A good spray primer is OK to finish the chip repair. There are various sprayon fillers available if the car had a lot of chips but your car only has a few.
Use sanding blocks, wet sandpaper, and you have to be very careful to keep the sanding even. There is the technique of putting a fog coat of another color primer and using that as a guide to be sure you don't have dips. If your going this far get some books for more info on techniques.
also be cautious of too coarse sandpaper. You should be using 400, then 600 so there are no sanding scratches in the old paint. Leave primering the whole car to the shop. You should just spot prime any chip repair and any edges that go down to bare metal but try not to do that.
The idea isn't to try to take off a layer of paint but to give the new paint a clean smooth surface to adhere to.
This is probably a weekends work depending on the car and how strong your arms are.
- 10-15-03 06:36 PM #14
Well said zonie77. Very good description on prepping. Thanks for the chyme in. I know my description was too basic
- 10-16-03 09:20 PM #15
THanks for the replies...... Give some, take some.......
So could you estimate how much clear coat would cost??