ATS Dies When Coasting to a Stop, Cadillac Blames Me, Said They Will Be No Help!
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Cadillac Customer Care Representatives - Warranty or Dealership problems Discussion, ATS Dies When Coasting to a Stop, Cadillac Blames Me, Said They Will Be No Help! in Cadillac Customer Care - Warranty and Dealership questions; I must say that I'm disgusted by the discussion that I had with the service manager at my GM dealership ...
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    bungee91 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    ATS Dies When Coasting to a Stop, Cadillac Blames Me, Said They Will Be No Help!

    I must say that I'm disgusted by the discussion that I had with the service manager at my GM dealership this morning.
    I want to call and seriously scream into someone's ear from GM right now, so I apologize if my thoughts are a bit emotional.

    Basic story, 2013 ATS Premium Manual sometimes dies when coasting to a stop, it can be when initially stopping or shortly after stopping.
    Sometimes I only notice it's off after trying to go again as the retained access power keeps the radio and etc... on, and idling the car is pretty quiet.

    Anyhow this originally happened about a month after getting the car. I went to go and my car was off. I was dumb founded, but the car restarts no problem.
    I didn't think too much of it, and continued on my way, not mentioning anything to my dealer. Then roughly a month later it happened again, I then thought back to the first time and again kind of shrugged it off.
    Anyhow this continued happening a time or two more and at that point I decided to take this up to my dealership for an explanation. They had other service they were to perform so they said they'd take a look at it. After looking at it the ticket stated "Couldn't recreate the problem" they did some basic checking of connections, cleaned and checked grounds, reflashed the ECM with the newest updates and said that he had hoped it would be better with no guarantee. The occurrence had gotten more frequent lately, more like a couple of times a week at the worst, and sometimes wouldn't happen for about a week and then would happen again. At this point the dealership gave me a loaner and the service manager drove the car for the weekend. Of course while he had it the problem didn't occur. So I took the car back and went on my way. It didn't die out again for about a week, but then it did it 3 times in one day!.. He then ordered a data logger from GM and plugged it into my vehicle. This was plugged into the ALDL port and continously recorded data, however I was also able to "flag" the occurence when it happened by flashing the lights. He said once I had recorded 2 instances or more to contact them back. So after about a week I had 2 occurrences, and I returned to the dealer to have them unplug itand send off the results. Well I find out the next day the box never worked and they ordered a new one and I had to come back to have another one installed. So back to the dealer again to re-do what they had previously done. The install a new one, and within a couple of days I've recorded 2 more occurrences. They uninstalled the data recorder right before the 4th of July and told me GM tech center was closed for 2 weeks, so I wouldn't get results for quite a while. This was a bit ridiculous, but whatever I can't do anything but wait. So anyhow I called yesterday and followed up and received a call this morning from the service manager. He states that GM engineers looked at the data and it shows that I'm not disengaging the clutch until about 550 RPM and that I'm supposedly stalling the vehicle. They can do nothing for me, and it is my fault.
    Now, here's the thing, I'm not a novice on driving a manual vehicle, I've been driving one for over 10 years, the BMW I came from prior to this and the Miata my wife drives are both manuals and they don't die out when coming to a stop. I explained to him that, "look, it seems to happen when I'm coming to a stop, more so if I've just been gaining more speed and then abruptly have to stop. I've been coming to a stop for a little while now, and the car is CLEARLY in neutral regardless of what the clutch position is in". So he then says, I'm sorry GM said there's no issue, and I can't do anything for you.

    Complete and utter crap! This is the first new car I've bought and I'm disgusted by this response to my issue. I was basically told I don't know how to drive a manual vehicle. I explained to him that I could care less what his results show, and considering they didn't even record the first time out I have little faith. If all they're looking at is the clutch input switch and (probably because they don't have it as a log'able input) not that the car is in neutral which means that I'M not stalling the vehicle then he isn't helping me get this problem fixed. He said there's nothing I can do and that was pretty much the end of it.

    So, can someone from the customer service department please help me?.. This is supposedly a very reputable dealership, and I'm disgusted at their response.

    Thanks,
    Jeff Anton

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    bungee91 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    ATS Dies When Coasting to a Stop, Cadillac Blames Me, Said They Will Be No Help!

    I posted this also in the Cadillac Customer Care forum also, I just thought I'd share with some of my other ATS owners in-case they're having issues also.
    I'm sure someone will be a wise ass and tell me "learn to drive stick, LOL" but whatever, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing and I know FOR SURE it's not me.
    A LONG story below, thanks for reading!.


    I must say that I'm disgusted by the discussion that I had with the service manager at my GM dealership this morning.
    I want to call and seriously scream into someone's ear from GM right now, so I apologize if my thoughts are a bit emotional.

    Basic story, 2013 ATS Premium Manual sometimes dies when coasting to a stop, it can be when initially stopping or shortly after stopping.
    Sometimes I only notice it's off after trying to go again as the retained access power keeps the radio and etc... on, and idling the car is pretty quiet.

    Anyhow this originally happened about a month after getting the car. I went to go and my car was off. I was dumb founded, but the car restarts no problem.
    I didn't think too much of it, and continued on my way, not mentioning anything to my dealer. Then roughly a month later it happened again, I then thought back to the first time and again kind of shrugged it off.
    Anyhow this continued happening a time or two more and at that point I decided to take this up to my dealership for an explanation. They had other service they were to perform so they said they'd take a look at it. After looking at it the ticket stated "Couldn't recreate the problem" they did some basic checking of connections, cleaned and checked grounds, reflashed the ECM with the newest updates and said that he had hoped it would be better with no guarantee. The occurrence had gotten more frequent lately, more like a couple of times a week at the worst, and sometimes wouldn't happen for about a week and then would happen again. At this point the dealership gave me a loaner and the service manager drove the car for the weekend. Of course while he had it the problem didn't occur. So I took the car back and went on my way. It didn't die out again for about a week, but then it did it 3 times in one day!.. He then ordered a data logger from GM and plugged it into my vehicle. This was plugged into the ALDL port and continously recorded data, however I was also able to "flag" the occurence when it happened by flashing the lights. He said once I had recorded 2 instances or more to contact them back. So after about a week I had 2 occurrences, and I returned to the dealer to have them unplug itand send off the results. Well I find out the next day the box never worked and they ordered a new one and I had to come back to have another one installed. So back to the dealer again to re-do what they had previously done. The install a new one, and within a couple of days I've recorded 2 more occurrences. They uninstalled the data recorder right before the 4th of July and told me GM tech center was closed for 2 weeks, so I wouldn't get results for quite a while. This was a bit ridiculous, but whatever I can't do anything but wait. So anyhow I called yesterday and followed up and received a call this morning from the service manager. He states that GM engineers looked at the data and it shows that I'm not disengaging the clutch until about 550 RPM and that I'm supposedly stalling the vehicle. They can do nothing for me, and it is my fault.
    Now, here's the thing, I'm not a novice on driving a manual vehicle, I've been driving one for over 10 years, the BMW I came from prior to this and the Miata my wife drives are both manuals and they don't die out when coming to a stop. I explained to him that, "look, it seems to happen when I'm coming to a stop, more so if I've just been gaining more speed and then abruptly have to stop. I've been coming to a stop for a little while now, and the car is CLEARLY in neutral regardless of what the clutch position is in". So he then says, I'm sorry GM said there's no issue, and I can't do anything for you.

    Complete and utter crap! This is the first new car I've bought and I'm disgusted by this response to my issue. I was basically told I don't know how to drive a manual vehicle. I explained to him that I could care less what his results show, and considering they didn't even record the first time out I have little faith. If all they're looking at is the clutch input switch and (probably because they don't have it as a log'able input) not that the car is in neutral which means that I'M not stalling the vehicle then he isn't helping me get this problem fixed. He said there's nothing I can do and that was pretty much the end of it.

    So, can someone from the customer service department please help me?.. This is supposedly a very reputable dealership, and I'm disgusted at their response.

    Thanks,
    Jeff Anton

  4. #3
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    Re: ATS Dies When Coasting to a Stop, Cadillac Blames Me, Said They Will Be No Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by bungee91 View Post
    I must say that I'm disgusted by the discussion that I had with the service manager at my GM dealership this morning.
    I want to call and seriously scream into someone's ear from GM right now, so I apologize if my thoughts are a bit emotional.

    Basic story, 2013 ATS Premium Manual sometimes dies when coasting to a stop, it can be when initially stopping or shortly after stopping.
    Sometimes I only notice it's off after trying to go again as the retained access power keeps the radio and etc... on, and idling the car is pretty quiet.

    Anyhow this originally happened about a month after getting the car. I went to go and my car was off. I was dumb founded, but the car restarts no problem.
    I didn't think too much of it, and continued on my way, not mentioning anything to my dealer. Then roughly a month later it happened again, I then thought back to the first time and again kind of shrugged it off.
    Anyhow this continued happening a time or two more and at that point I decided to take this up to my dealership for an explanation. They had other service they were to perform so they said they'd take a look at it. After looking at it the ticket stated "Couldn't recreate the problem" they did some basic checking of connections, cleaned and checked grounds, reflashed the ECM with the newest updates and said that he had hoped it would be better with no guarantee. The occurrence had gotten more frequent lately, more like a couple of times a week at the worst, and sometimes wouldn't happen for about a week and then would happen again. At this point the dealership gave me a loaner and the service manager drove the car for the weekend. Of course while he had it the problem didn't occur. So I took the car back and went on my way. It didn't die out again for about a week, but then it did it 3 times in one day!.. He then ordered a data logger from GM and plugged it into my vehicle. This was plugged into the ALDL port and continously recorded data, however I was also able to "flag" the occurence when it happened by flashing the lights. He said once I had recorded 2 instances or more to contact them back. So after about a week I had 2 occurrences, and I returned to the dealer to have them unplug itand send off the results. Well I find out the next day the box never worked and they ordered a new one and I had to come back to have another one installed. So back to the dealer again to re-do what they had previously done. The install a new one, and within a couple of days I've recorded 2 more occurrences. They uninstalled the data recorder right before the 4th of July and told me GM tech center was closed for 2 weeks, so I wouldn't get results for quite a while. This was a bit ridiculous, but whatever I can't do anything but wait. So anyhow I called yesterday and followed up and received a call this morning from the service manager. He states that GM engineers looked at the data and it shows that I'm not disengaging the clutch until about 550 RPM and that I'm supposedly stalling the vehicle. They can do nothing for me, and it is my fault.
    Now, here's the thing, I'm not a novice on driving a manual vehicle, I've been driving one for over 10 years, the BMW I came from prior to this and the Miata my wife drives are both manuals and they don't die out when coming to a stop. I explained to him that, "look, it seems to happen when I'm coming to a stop, more so if I've just been gaining more speed and then abruptly have to stop. I've been coming to a stop for a little while now, and the car is CLEARLY in neutral regardless of what the clutch position is in". So he then says, I'm sorry GM said there's no issue, and I can't do anything for you.

    Complete and utter crap! This is the first new car I've bought and I'm disgusted by this response to my issue. I was basically told I don't know how to drive a manual vehicle. I explained to him that I could care less what his results show, and considering they didn't even record the first time out I have little faith. If all they're looking at is the clutch input switch and (probably because they don't have it as a log'able input) not that the car is in neutral which means that I'M not stalling the vehicle then he isn't helping me get this problem fixed. He said there's nothing I can do and that was pretty much the end of it.

    So, can someone from the customer service department please help me?.. This is supposedly a very reputable dealership, and I'm disgusted at their response.

    Thanks,
    Jeff Anton
    Hello Jeff,

    I apologize for the experience you had at your dealership. I understand how you are feeling frustrated and annoyed of the situation. I wanted to let you know I did receive your private message, and I will continue to interact with you that way.

    Sincerely,

    Laura M.
    Cadillac Customer Care

  5. #4
    SLA
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    Re: ATS Dies When Coasting to a Stop, Cadillac Blames Me, Said They Will Be No Help!

    setup a camera that can see both the clutch and the tach?
    amunderdog likes this.

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    roadpie4u is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: ATS Dies When Coasting to a Stop, Cadillac Blames Me, Said They Will Be No Help!

    I know the LTG has a factory calibration to keep emissions in check (why it hangs onto RPM so slowly after your foot is off the pedal). I wonder if for some reason its not a "tune" issue, but rather related to the clutch? Perhaps the engagement of it is off? It could also be the clutch engagement switch - I dont know at what point in the pedal travel the ECU responds, but if the ECU does anything to the engine parameters based off clutch position that could also be playing a part.

    I know DI engines also tend to stumble from time to time during idle - they're very sensitive at lower RPM - so a little twitch here or there could do it.

    I know it sounds silly, but what grade fuel do you run? Does it have any correlation to drivetrain temperature or weather?

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    bungee91 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: ATS Dies When Coasting to a Stop, Cadillac Blames Me, Said They Will Be No Help!

    Thank you Laura, you have a reply.
    I will follow up with you VIA PM.
    Thanks so much!

    Jeff

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    Re: ATS Dies When Coasting to a Stop, Cadillac Blames Me, Said They Will Be No Help!

    Thanks to both of you for the reply, the camera idea may need to be implemented, I have an old phone sitting around.

    As for the fuel, I exclusively run premium, typically whatever Sam's Club is serving up.
    Temp and weather don't seem to have any impact. I had thought having the A/C on had some effect (more load on the engine), but now I think it doesn't have any effect per say, it dies when it wants to regardless if it's on or off. There really isn't any noticeable stumble, and sometimes I've came to a complete stop and look down and the car is idling, then I look down again, and the engine is off!... Nice.

    I have a reply from GM Customer Service PM, I plan to follow up with them.
    Thanks everyone.

    ----------

    I also want to say, that ALL cars can have issues. It's unfortunate I'm on that side currently, however it happens.
    I haven't said much of anything about this issue on the forum prior to now as I just expected my dealership and GM to take care of this responsibly.

    The difference between how it is resolved is the absolute key to a good brand!... I feel as if I have to force the hand here to get a good result, that's unfortunate.

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    Re: ATS Dies When Coasting to a Stop, Cadillac Blames Me, Said They Will Be No Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by bungee91 View Post
    I posted this also in the Cadillac Customer Care forum also, I just thought I'd share with some of my other ATS owners in-case they're having issues also.

    I'm sure someone will be a wise ass and tell me "learn to drive stick, LOL" but whatever, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing and I know FOR SURE it's not me.
    A LONG story below, thanks for reading!.

    ....

    He states that GM engineers looked at the data and it shows that I'm not disengaging the clutch until about 550 RPM and that I'm supposedly stalling the vehicle. They can do nothing for me, and it is my fault.

    Now, here's the thing, I'm not a novice on driving a manual vehicle, I've been driving one for over 10 years, the BMW I came from prior to this and the Miata my wife drives are both manuals and they don't die out when coming to a stop.

    ....

    Complete and utter crap! This is the first new car I've bought and I'm disgusted by this response to my issue. I was basically told I don't know how to drive a manual vehicle. I explained to him that I could care less what his results show, and considering they didn't even record the first time out I have little faith.

    Thanks,
    Jeff Anton
    I do understand your sentiment, but I also think that the data seems to indicate that the GM engineers may have a point.

    Clutches are different in different cars, and require interplay between the gas and the throttle to operate properly.

    Does you car stall when coming to a stop, or when pulling away from a stop? From your discussion it could be either way - but from the GM feedback they say that it is when pulling away.

    Did you check the clutch position - is it perhaps too far down to the floorboard?

    Could it be such that you are used to a heavy clutch, one that disengages easily and requires little to no throttle?

    Try using more gas for a while when pulling away from a stop - that should overcome an early clutch release?

    Fwiw - my wife grew up driving stick shift cars, but she never mastered clutch control in the Porsche - it uses a 'light' clutch which makes it sensitive to how it engages. (And yes - I had to 'relearn' the clutch in that car as well - I also stalled it in the beginning, unexpectedly).

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    Re: ATS Dies When Coasting to a Stop, Cadillac Blames Me, Said They Will Be No Help!

    I appreciate the input, but again, it's in neutral!.. Also I'm not stalling the car, I think I'd feel that.... Grrrr...

    They don't (have a point), and I'm not just stubborn.
    I don't push in the clutch pedal at 550 RPM, and no it doesn't die when taking off from a stop, it is when coming to a stop (or shortly after, it's hard to actually be looking when it does it).
    Sometimes I look down and it's running, idling, clutch not pressed, in neutral. Then I look down again and it is off!
    I'm working with GM Customer service, and they've made a case for the regional representative to contact me.

    The service manager left another message and said he'd send me the work order, and to enjoy my birthday, it sure is nice weather!.. Lovely.

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    Re: ATS Dies When Coasting to a Stop, Cadillac Blames Me, Said They Will Be No Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by bungee91 View Post
    I appreciate the input, but again, it's in neutral!.. Also I'm not stalling the car, I think I'd feel that.... Grrrr...

    They don't (have a point), and I'm not just stubborn.
    I don't push in the clutch pedal at 550 RPM, and no it doesn't die when taking off from a stop, it is when coming to a stop (or shortly after, it's hard to actually be looking when it does it).
    Sometimes I look down and it's running, idling, clutch not pressed, in neutral. Then I look down again and it is off!
    I'm working with GM Customer service, and they've made a case for the regional representative to contact me.

    The service manager left another message and said he'd send me the work order, and to enjoy my birthday, it sure is nice weather!.. Lovely.
    Just take a service mechanic out for a test-drive - it has to happens just once to make your point.

    Can they simply increase the idle rev level? Perhaps as a remedy?

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    Hoosier Daddy's Avatar
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    Re: ATS Dies When Coasting to a Stop, Cadillac Blames Me, Said They Will Be No Help!

    First, it's sad this is happening to you.

    To help assess the dealer competance, do you know by chance if they made sure the second data logger was working before they sent you out? They should have done it before the 1st time, but if they didn't a second time, that's a very bad sign.

    It might not be the only issue, but we can't overlook the fact that the data logger says you didn't disengage the clutch until 550 RPMs. I don't see any reason to take that as gospel, but if it was accurate, maybe you just don't realize you are doing it but the other side of that coin is if you are sure that did not happen, it means the logging was wrong so would be worthless for diagnosis.

    Did the dealer check to make sure the clutch pedal sensor was functioning properly? I believe its just a switch that is turned on when the pedal travel gets to a specific point. Since you told them you are positive you depressed the pedal at a higher RPM and did not let it come back up, they should have tested to make sure the sensor tripped at the proper point and the same point every time the pedal was depressed. If they did not think of that or do that, they are NOT on their A game which is absolutely needed in situations like this. Another thing to check is whether the clutch is doing what the pedal tells it? What if a hydraulic or mechanical problem is causig the clutch to slowly reengage even if the pedal is depressed?

    And if it ever comes to another data logging period, I sugest you never put it in neutral at or before a stop simply because it is not something that can be logged. So you reporting the transmission was in neutral does not help them at all, it just raises a doubt in their minds. Also, if you log and never put it in neutral and the clutch pedal switch is proven to be working propperly and the data logger still says you didn't depress the clutch untill under 550 RPMs, maybe you really didn't and can fix the problem by working on the technique. Mind you I'm not saying I think you are the problem. I don't expect the scenario I just described happening, but if it did, then I would believe its almost certainly operator error.

    Good luck.

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    Re: ATS Dies When Coasting to a Stop, Cadillac Blames Me, Said They Will Be No Help!

    This was posted in another thread (forum). Can some moderator merge them?

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    Kingoftypos is online now Cadillac Owners Master
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    I am curious about this. When the engine dies, does the dashboard display the check engine light? Like it would when you first start the car?

    Does the ATS have that feature where you come to a stop and after a few seconds the engine stops to conserve gas? Then once the brake pedal is released the engine starts up on its own? But in your case it's not starting up. Just a thought on that one.

    KOT

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    Re: ATS Dies When Coasting to a Stop, Cadillac Blames Me, Said They Will Be No Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingoftypos View Post
    Does the ATS have that feature where you come to a stop and after a few seconds the engine stops to conserve gas? Then once the brake pedal is released the engine starts up on its own? But in your case it's not starting up. Just a thought on that one.
    No it doesn't YET. But it would be funny if some of the problems were traced to code related to that which managed to get into the production code by mistake.

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    Kingoftypos is online now Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: ATS Dies When Coasting to a Stop, Cadillac Blames Me, Said They Will Be No Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy View Post
    This was posted in another thread (forum). Can some moderator merge them?
    It would appear that the other thread was moved, but wasn't merged with this one.

    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...-cadillac.html

    KOT

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