V2 Wheel Clicking - Page 8

mpouls1 · #**106** (**permalink**) 10-08-09, 01:43 AM

I can understand your frustration. Hopefully you are being compensated in some way.

I'm waiting for your guinea pig of a car to hopefully be fixed. It is much appreciated.

NeedCTS-v · #**107** (**permalink**) 10-08-09, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunder gray

needcts-v what did they do on the 2nd fix?

According to the service manager in both cases they followed the TSB instructions. On the second fix they said that they had to follow the instructions very literally. In this case I do no know what the 'secret sauce' is but I can try to contact the tech to see if there were any make/break critical steps in his mind that might be easily overlooked.

CTS-V-TWIN · #**108** (**permalink**) 10-09-09, 12:40 AM

Got the car back today finally after 11 days in service.

I will now monitor the car to see if the noise comes back which I am almost positive it will. All they did was replace my factory parts with new un-revised ones.

I will know in about 1,000-1,500 miles if the sound will return. I will keep you guys updated.

SG

Gary Wells · #**109** (**permalink**) 10-09-09, 05:29 AM

Glad to hear that you got your car back, SG, I know that was extremely frustrating to say the least. Which parts did they end up replacing, please?

thunder gray · #**110** (**permalink**) 10-09-09, 08:53 AM

Hey folks my car goes into the dealer 10/15 for the wheel clicking and to ck. the rearend fluid level. Is there a TSB I should refer them to on these issues? Any suggestions on this would be great thanks!

anonfrank · #**111** (**permalink**) 10-09-09, 01:50 PM

Do keep us posted SG.

If the new parts were unchanged, I fail to see how the problem won't come back.

CTS-V-TWIN · #**112** (**permalink**) 10-09-09, 03:51 PM

Gary Wells,

They replaced both front rotors and front lugnuts. They checked bearings and they were fine, so bearings were not changed.

I can say that the clicking noise is much fainter with the polished wheels over my painted wheels. The clicking noise with the painted wheels was loud!

SG

Buzduz74 · #**113** (**permalink**) 10-12-09, 03:37 PM

My dealer in Del Ray Beach Florida has no fix yet. My left front wheel is REAL loud but will wait till a real fix.
Buzz

CTS-V-TWIN · #**114** (**permalink**) 10-12-09, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzduz74

My dealer in Del Ray Beach Florida has no fix yet. My left front wheel is REAL loud but will wait till a real fix.
Buzz

GOOD LUCK!! When GM wants to start doing research on their actual wheel design, they may actually find the fix. It is obvious that it's the front wheels that is causing the noise and nothing else. For now, they will just keep throwing parts at it and think that the 158 ft.-lbs. of torque will fix it. It will, but temporarily.

It will be a very expensive TSB for GM once they face the facts that they have to revise the front wheel design in order to get rid of this clicking noise.

If the NHTSA issues a mandatory recall due to complaints on this wheel clicking, GM will be forced to do something worthy instead of what they are currently doing which is really nothing. To this day, I am convinced that GM doesn't know what is causing the clicking noise or they don't want to issue a permanent TSB which will be a new front wheel design on the inside of the actual wheel because it will be VERY expensive for them. Money they don't have to spend, unless they can get the supplier of the wheels to cough up the dough, but being that GM gave them the wheel specs to manufacture, GM will be the ones holding the bag in the end. Serves them right for not doing proper R&D! Sorry to rant. Just venting because of my current situation.

SG

Low_ET · #**115** (**permalink**) 10-12-09, 11:15 PM

I have about 3,500 miles on my '09 CTS-V. The wheel clicking started at about 2,000 miles and has been getting louder and louder. I read the posts on the GM TSB. I'm not a big fan of other people working on my car so I decided to do the TSB myself.

I took off the wheels and cleaned the rotor surface and the back of the wheels with brake parts cleaner (CRC Brand). The factory torque on the lug nuts was very low - it just took a flick of the wrist to break them loose. The surfaces had a waxy material on them that took a bit of work to clean off.

I installed the wheels and torqued to 140 ft-lbs (the minimum of the "140 - 158 ft-lb" spec). The clicking is completely gone. I will keep and eye (or ear) on it and take note of if and when it comes back.

One observation: The hub that centers the wheel is steel and not cast iron. The rotor is cast iron and the wheel is aluminum. Dissimilar metals in contact is a good way to get corrosion started (especially here in costal Florida). The bare steel hub has fretting corrosion where the wheel contacts it. That is a suspicious sign. I'm going to keep an eye on the hub.

GMX322V S/C · #**116** (**permalink**) 10-13-09, 05:42 AM

^^^Did you notice if our wheels are hub-centric?

another_lap · #**117** (**permalink**) 10-13-09, 06:44 PM

I have been following this thread for a while now. My car started the clicking six weeks ago. The TSB was done and the problem went away. What this tells me is that the problem is not bearing related or anything having to do with the suspension assembly. It is a material-based anomaly related to the combination of at least two among: the wheel, the hub and the lug nuts. What is most likely happening is that there is differential movement between at least, but most likely only, two of those parts. The expansion properties of the hub and aluminum wheel are significantly different. Over time, with heating and cooling the parts become loose. Not in the literal sense of the term loose, but microscopically loose. After they are "loose", lateral force caused by the vehicle's motion while the wheels are turned causing microscopic snapping, leading to the clicking noise we are all hearing.

So, what is the solution? Seems to me that a likely, simple and long lasting solution is to remove the wheels, clean off the surfaces and place a thin, tough pvc or carbon-fiber type layer of material between the hub and wheel. The material could be cut to size, with holes for the lug nuts. Then tighten the whole thing to some reasonable torque. The material would need to be very thin, and therefore very tough. You would not want a material that over time would become compressed further. The next time mine starts the clicking, this is what I will try.

The only reason this would not work is if the problem is at the surface intersection between the lug nuts and the wheel. My guess at this point is that the chance is >50% that the problem is what I describe above, and does not involve the lug nuts.

This idea of torquing the hell out of the lug nuts is crazy.

another_lap

tedcmiller · #**118** (**permalink**) 10-13-09, 11:15 PM

another lap,
The use of a gasket between the wheel and the hub is what I had considered for a while, but I can not think of a suitable material from which to make the gasket.

Anybody have any suggestions besides PVC or carbon fiber?

OldRoadDawg · #**119** (**permalink**) 10-14-09, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by another_lap

So, what is the solution? Seems to me that a likely, simple and long lasting solution is to remove the wheels, clean off the surfaces and place a thin, tough pvc or carbon-fiber type layer of material between the hub and wheel. The material could be cut to size, with holes for the lug nuts. Then tighten the whole thing to some reasonable torque. The material would need to be very thin, and therefore very tough. You would not want a material that over time would become compressed further. The next time mine starts the clicking, this is what I will try.

The only reason this would not work is if the problem is at the surface intersection between the lug nuts and the wheel. My guess at this point is that the chance is >50% that the problem is what I describe above, and does not involve the lug nuts.

This idea of torquing the hell out of the lug nuts is crazy.

another_lap

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedcmiller

another lap,
The use of a gasket between the wheel and the hub is what I had considered for a while, but I can not think of a suitable material from which to make the gasket.

Anybody have any suggestions besides PVC or carbon fiber?

I don't have the "clicking" syndrome. . . yet - at nearly 5Kmiles (04/09 production). However I've been thinking on this for awhile and was thinking along the same line as 'another_lap'. He explained it so definitively. Must have an engineering degree.

So while pondering what to use as a gasket/spacer/liner, my shadetree mechanic roots kicked in while I was watching the wife use some baking sheet teflon liners on her old cookie sheets that she's had for years. The material isn't any thicker than a sheet of paper, can be cut to any size, wipes cleans with a damp cloth and seems to be very tough with a high tensile strength. The stuff is actually dishwasher safe. And inexpensive. Here's a link to a supplier: Teflon sheet

Thought I'd order a few sheets and experiment. If it doesn't prove workable it won't be very much out-of-pocket $$. If they do work, the one hassle will be messing with the liners when removing wheels.

My only drawback is, as previously stated, I don't have the wheel clicking problem (yet), so I've got nothing to experiment on (yet).

Just my thoughts on this irritant while waiting for GM to come up with a more permanent solution. And based on my prior experiences with V1 ownership (rear differentials & radio buttons come to mind), those solutions may be a lon-n-ng time in coming - if ever.

mpouls1 · #**120** (**permalink**) 10-14-09, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldRoadDawg

I don't have the "clicking" syndrome. . . yet - at nearly 5Kmiles (04/09 production). However I've been thinking on this for awhile and was thinking along the same line as 'another_lap'. He explained it so definitively. Must have an engineering degree.

So while pondering what to use as a gasket/spacer/liner, my shadetree mechanic roots kicked in while I was watching the wife use some baking sheet teflon liners on her old cookie sheets that she's had for years. The material isn't any thicker than a sheet of paper, can be cut to any size, wipes cleans with a damp cloth and seems to be very tough with a high tensile strength. The stuff is actually dishwasher safe. And inexpensive. Here's a link to a supplier: Teflon sheet

Thought I'd order a few sheets and experiment. If it doesn't prove workable it won't be very much out-of-pocket $$. If they do work, the one hassle will be messing with the liners when removing wheels.

My only drawback is, as previously stated, I don't have the wheel clicking problem (yet), so I've got nothing to experiment on (yet).

Just my thoughts on this irritant while waiting for GM to come up with a more permanent solution. And based on my prior experiences with V1 ownership (rear differentials & radio buttons come to mind), those solutions may be a lon-n-ng time in coming - if ever.

This sounds like a possible fix but I would be cautious. I talked to my friend who is a service tech and his only main concern was that he would definitely check the torque on the wheels frequently if someone was to do this.