Considering a CTS-V - some questions/concerns

[Looney100]

I've been looking for a V8 sedan for a while now, up until last week, I had narrowed things down to either an M3 or Lexus IS-F. Then I saw the CTS-V on Top Gear.
Went to have a look at one at a dealership yesterday and was pretty impressed with both the car and the value. I've got a few concerns that I was hoping some of you here could comment on:

-Reliability - in general for GM is below average, Consumer Reports doesn't rate the CTS very highly. The 3 series and Lexus both have top of class reliability ratings

-Depreciation - Again not very good for GM. But this might be an opportunity for me to pick up a used vehicle in a year or two at a steep discount.

-Fuel Economy - This baby guzzles gas. Consumption rates are considerably higher than the M3/IS-F

Any comments? What are each of your top likes & dislikes about your V?

[Hawkeye2]

First, where do you come with GM reliability is below average? Check
again with J.D Power.

Are you basing it on Consumer Reports?

Depreciation - try buying a Jag! The V is new this year, how can there
be a depreciation rate for them already. Try to find a used one.

I don't buy a car based on what I think it will be worth when I go to sell
it. I buy what I want now.

It is fast, safe, comfortable, seats 4, looks good, comes with a stick shift,
and IT IS MADE IN THE U.S.

Drive one, and you'll see what I mean.

[Rolex]

All vehicles depreciate. If you're buying a vehicle as in investment, you've got more money then good sense. Unless you intend to put the car up on blocks and store it for 30 years then re-sell it, you won't make (real) money on any vehicle. All cars will depreciate when you drive them off the lot, and with each year you own it. Cars are made to be enjoyed and driven. If you're looking for a sedan with a BIG fun factor then you'll find that in the V.

[62Jeff]

Originally Posted by Looney100

-Reliability - in general for GM is below average, Consumer Reports doesn't rate the CTS very highly. The 3 series and Lexus both have top of class reliability ratings

I don't know about that, what is your source? Old memories of GM quality are no longer accurate.

-Depreciation - Again not very good for GM. But this might be an opportunity for me to pick up a used vehicle in a year or two at a steep discount.

Used ones with under 10,000 miles are available on e-bay for $10k under original MSRP. Some new ones can be had for deep discounts right now through supporting vendors on the forum, which should put the price of a new one at thousands below MSRP. It's too early to tell how much depreciation will hit the CTS-Vs, since there's many variables about limited (or not) production. But yes if price is a consideration, used is cheaper. Only you can determine whether or not the purchase price is significant to you. I bought new, because I didn't want a car that may have been abused by a former owner. How many times did he/she bounce it off the rev limiter? How many times did they power brake it and floor the gas? I just didn't want to deal with that.

-Fuel Economy - This baby guzzles gas. Consumption rates are considerably higher than the M3/IS-F

I drive 3.3 miles to work each day, and don't go many other places. I'm averaging 10-11 MPG. The one time I took a 400 mile round trip on the highway, I averaged 20.

Any comments? What are each of your top likes & dislikes about your V?

Love

• the smooth, quiet performance
• the performance value
• the potential GM left in the drive train, with simple and inexpensive computer tunes resulting in 600+ crank hp. Try that on a BMW without breaking the bank.
• the stock seats
• the USB integration
• the brakes
• most of the ergonomics. The center arm rest and the door panel arm rest are at the same level, so it feels better

Hate

• the Recaro seats, hurt my sketchy lower back (I'm on my second V since January). Note: Most people love the Recaro's, they just weren't for me and how I plan to use the car.
• the lack of ventilation in the stock seats
• the rattles in the headliner, I believe associated with sunroof hardware
• the thin sunroof shade, the sunroof needs a limo tint to keep the heat out of the car
• the ridiculous brake dust, turning my polished front wheels to black in 2 weeks time

Things I'd Change
In addition to things I hate, these things I'd change:

• Replace carbon fiber plastic bits with dark wood. This is now available and I may make that swap.
• Move the steering wheel stereo controls to the left side of the wheel

[Prof]

In my opinion the CTS V is a daily driver with a performance vehicle character. If fuel economy is an issue this is not the vehicle for you...but neither are the other two you mentioned. If you are worried about an extra $30 a month from a fuel bill, you are in the wrong arena.

I think the new attitude at GM is going to stick. Quality has greatly improved and there seems to be a dedication to customer satisfaction.

I love my V2, but I also love my SRT 10 and it gets 8 mpg...and I love my Volvo 850R Wagon...they are totally different vehicles, but each fills a need in my psyche...try the CTS V for a year...you will love every minute of it!

[Looney100]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye2

First, where do you come with GM reliability is below average? Check
again with J.D Power.

Are you basing it on Consumer Reports?



It is fast, safe, comfortable, seats 4, looks good, comes with a stick shift,
and IT IS MADE IN THE U.S.

Drive one, and you'll see what I mean.

According to the latest survey released by JD Power (problems per 100 vehicles):

Buick 122
Lexus 126
Cadillac 148
BMW 166
Industry Average 170
GMC 174
Chevy 185
Saturn 211
Pontiac 220
Hummer 221
Saab 226

I think its safe to say that GM is below average.

I haven't yet driven a CTS-V yet, but will do so soon. From what I've read, I'm not concerned about ride quality or experience.

Other problem, my wife can't shift gears, so I'm stuck with an auto

[V-Eight]

Originally Posted by Looney100

-Reliability - in general for GM is below average, Consumer Reports doesn't rate the CTS very highly. The 3 series and Lexus both have top of class reliability ratings

The V is superior in every category.

-Depreciation - Again not very good for GM. But this might be an opportunity for me to pick up a used vehicle in a year or two at a steep discount.

From what I've heard V's actually keep their value better than Ms and Mercedes

On another note, the IS-F sucks compared to the V and M3

[CVP33]

Depreciation? Pick your poison. Each of the cars - CTSV, M3, ISF - can be purchased for around $60,000 when the options are figured in. The CTS-V just comes with more standard equipment. My guess is that all 3 can be had a year later with low miles and a great dealer sponsored pre-owned warranty for around $45,000.

The real difference comes when you compare it to the M5, E63 and Jaguar - cars more in it's size class and most likely to be cross-shopped. Then you're looking at $90,000 to $100,000 to match the V's equipment and most likely looking at depreciation in the neighborhood of $25,000 to $30,000 vs. the $15,000. Just my guess, but we'll know in a year or two.

[Caroutisine]

Had mine for over 3,000 miles now and the ony problem I've had was a minor fix on the radio. Loose wire was causing the passenger side speakers to not work. The only vehicle I've driven in recent memory with a better ride was a 2010 E550. The V rides better than my 2005 STS did.

The only thing I don't like is the fuel economy, and specifically the range. Wish it had a little larger tank, but that would add weight I guess.

Resale is taking a hit right now due to better discounts and rebates on new CTS-V's. But as stated, no car is an investment. Even if you put it on blocks for 30 years, you would come out better investing the money over the 30 years...

[anonfrank]

Originally Posted by Looney100

According to the latest survey released by JD Power (problems per 100 vehicles):

Buick 122
Lexus 126
Cadillac 148
BMW 166
Industry Average 170
GMC 174
Chevy 185
Saturn 211
Pontiac 220
Hummer 221
Saab 226

I think its safe to say that GM is below average.

I haven't yet driven a CTS-V yet, but will do so soon. From what I've read, I'm not concerned about ride quality or experience.

Other problem, my wife can't shift gears, so I'm stuck with an auto

You mean, Cadillac is more reliable than the industry average, and certainly more than the average GM automobile. I was concerned about reliability as well as I'm a 20-year and ongoing Honda/Acura owner. I've had my car only four months and 4000 miles, so it's hard to say anything about reliability. I can tell you that the car hasn't had any unexpected dealership visits yet, in fact, I haven't had it in for an oil change yet.

It is a total blast to drive. I mean, there is simply nothing like that good old American V8 rumbing sound.

Gas mileage sucks, but as noted above, the M3 and IS-F suckalmost as badly. I share the concern about the range, we need another gallon in the tank, STAT. I'm getting 240 miles to the tank, a bit over 200 if I fool around a lot (e.g. 0-90 mph blasts on the on-ramps, wheeeeeeee! then slow to freeway speed) If you're that worried about mileage, you can a) buy a regular CTS, it's really not a bad car or b) do the WFM tranny/engine tune, which increases mileage by a few.

Anyway, this was my actual pros and cons list from when I was considering the car:

PROS:
FAST
This is a HOT-looking car
Great interior with large, simple-to-use buttons that are relatively few
Regular seats do me just fine as I use the car as a "grand tourer"
American (bonus--keep other Americans employed)
Great exhaust note
Excellent handling
Best bang for buck in the segment (M5, XF-R, Maserati Quattroporte, E55 are its natural competition, not the M3 and IS-F)
Most importantly: Got a good deal in purchasing it
BIG trunk for travel
Have you ever seen a negative review for this car? Let me know when somebody finds one. Everybody but the greenies loves this car.

CONS:
Gas mileage, but I can afford the gas so this is a non-argument
Don't like the navi voice controls (but I'm getting used to them)
GM going bankrupt (I ended up buying despite that, BK happened three months later, now they are not bankrupt so this is a non-argument)

What finally put me over the edge was that one of the sponsoring dealers was close to me distance-wise and offered a great deal.

HTH some.

PS--don't feel like you're stuck with the automatic. This is the fastest automatic transmission I've ever experienced. I love it! I also had no choice as my beloved wife doesn't drive stick, either.

[vperl]

Who are these folks that come on the forum and bash the V@ without actually having any facts?

Look at every review ever written on the V2, look at Top Gear, not exactly a friend of American steel, many car magazines love the V2, Car & Driver as I remember have rated the CTS & the V as car of the year....

I have yet to find any real negative articles on the V2......

I suspect in france, or Germany or some place that is still using outside toilets would not like the V...

Who cares, I like my V2, others can go fish.....

[Hawkeye2]

Originally Posted by Looney100

According to the latest survey released by JD Power (problems per 100 vehicles):

Buick 122
Lexus 126
Cadillac 148
BMW 166
Industry Average 170
GMC 174
Chevy 185
Saturn 211
Pontiac 220
Hummer 221
Saab 226

I think its safe to say that GM is below average.

I haven't yet driven a CTS-V yet, but will do so soon. From what I've read, I'm not concerned about ride quality or experience.

Other problem, my wife can't shift gears, so I'm stuck with an auto

Industry average 170 - Cadillac 148. You are asking about a Cadillac,
not all GM.

As for stick, that is a personal choice, there are numerous posts on stick
vs. auto. But, I repeat YOU HAVE TO DRIVE ONE! And, you can feel
good buying American.

Good luck with whatever you buy.

Cheers.

[RWFJR]

Other problem, my wife can't shift gears, so I'm stuck with an auto [/quote]

I preffer the auto. It has a very smooth shift and 1/4 mile times are quicker with the stock auto than the shift. You also have the auto shift option with the stick or paddles on the wheel.

[mbshoe]

To elaborate on some of the pros/cons

Pro
"American made." I bought the car with some amount of pride and quite a bit of trepidation.
The handling and driving experience is superb. I know that's a repeat of what everyone says, but it's so true. The suspension is sublime.
I like the Recaro's, but fully understand different bodies have different opinions.
I like the manual transmission + clutch operation. Your mileage (spouse) may vary.
I love the rumble it makes at idle. It's so wrong for a Cadillac. :-)
I live in a rural area, and the steerable headlights are much more than the gimmick I expected them to be. They're less useful in an urban setting.
The Nav/Audio system plays audiobooks downloaded from Audible.com ! What a pleasant surprise.
The car is pretty unique. I outside of Sacramento, and base CTS's are rare. I've never seen another V (V1 or V2) on the road around here.
When visiting San Jose for business, I've got the most HP of any vehicle in the parking lot.


Con
Needs larger fuel tank - the range is not long enough. Especially when driving aggressively.
Rear windows don't have 'express up' feature. (only down). On the other hand, the rear windows go all the way down. This the first car I've ever owned where the rear windows go all the way down.
Interior squeaks and rattles are an embarrassment. I'm ashamed to take friends for a ride. It just reinforces the poorly made American car stereotype.
The voice recognition is nearly useless. It's frustrating that voice control is the only way to do things like bluetooth pairing. You have to read the manual to remember the magic words. A simple menu on the touchscreen would be much easier to use. (Yes, I know not every V comes with Nav - not my problem. My complaint stands).
The thin plastic strap attached to the gas cap can't last for much longer.

I have 11K miles, and nothing has broken, yet. I solved the wheel clicking problem myself. The carpeting in the front driver's foot well has pulled loose on both sides. I bought some aftermarket floor mats because the stock mats are so thin and made from the cheapest nylon, that it's clear they are leftovers from a Geo Metro stockpile somewhere.

I love the way the car drives. I am disappointed at the short-cuts taken in other areas. I hear it's much better than the V1, and there is no doubt Cadillac has come a long way from the DTS my parents own. But, Cadillac has a ways to go. The "little" things matter. GM doesn't understand that. For a 'normal' car, I plan to continue to happily pay a bit of a premium for an Accord/Camry sort of vehicle as compared to anything from GM. For a 'go-fast' car, the CTS-V is definitely a bargain. But, not without compromise.

Despite my tone, I don't regret buying the car. I'm just not sure I'd buy another one. It will be years before I have an idea of its overall reliability. One factor in its favor was the 100,000 mile drivetrain warranty.

[marktanner]

I have a friend who is facing the same issues. He wants an automatic for various reasons as well. There are pros and cons to every automobile, of course.

As far as reliability goes, i do believe the first year for the CTS was below average. My '08 was a lemon, and one reason why I started reading this forum. I have been monitoring both the CTS and the V2 forums for over a year, and I do believe things are much better this year. Very few posts about problems anymore, and the CTS forum is pretty quiet these days, compared to this one, which has lots of posts about performance and upgrades. My V has been great so far, with only a minor issue with seat movement in the driver's Recaro, which I otherwise love. Others I know are having very few problems, either. Cadillac has been working hard on this, from what we hear.

Mileage isn't great, but as good as most of the competition. I have the stick. My worst so far is 13, my best 16.5, and the car is still breaking in. It's been running 22-23 on the highway. The car is rated at 14/19, so I'm pretty happy overall, as it may get a bit better with further break-in. It's running about 20% less than my CTS DI, but I never floored the CTS for the fun of it like I sometimes do with the V. The M3s barely do any better, which is not very impressive for a smaller, much lighter car with a lot less power. Not sure about real world mpg with the Lexus as I don't know anyone with one. My friends with M5s report only 11 mpg, which is worse than even the automatic V. All of these cars can use bigger tanks, though highway range is pretty good in my car.

As far as depreciation, the regular CTS has been rated best in it's class. NO car has great resale right now, but the V seems to be holding up pretty well in comparison. Sales of all M cars are down a lot, and they are offering great deals on them, so even M3s are not holding well. M5s seem to plummet $30K+ in the first year alone ( I know someone who got $45K as a trade in for a year old M6 that was originally $110K, a loss of $65K/60% in one year!). MB AMG E63s are going for $30-40K off for a year old car. Don't have any info on the Lexus, but it's sales are so poor it can't be very good (never have seen one in the two years it's been out, and it's never won any comparo test, either).

A few other things to consider. A lot of the major controls are more "normal" and easier to use than things like the turn signals and transmission selector for the automated manual you'll have to buy on the BMW. BMW ergonomics are pretty weird these days. At least the i-drive in the M3 is improved, as the one in the current M5 is still a disaster. You can probably get used to these things, but how about your wife? Also, do you ever need a back seat? The CTS is the best, the M3 tighter, and the Lexus is a joke.