A lot less black soot in the tailpipe with w4m tune

[rjoffe]

Can you guys comment on why after market tuning on a stock setup is required ? I'm not questioning the results, and completely understand the tune requirements if any mods are made. Just curious why the factory stock setup seems to be so far off of "ideal"

Thanks,

Ron

[jwa999]

This went into my reasoning to get the w4m tune. I've never modded or tuned any of my cars before. They all seemed to work fine from the factory. And i've always driven stick shifts.

The caddy's automatic transmission to me was very slugish. I compared it to my wife's M45, which always seems to be in the right gear.
I absolutely couldn't not go through a fast corner and have enough engine braking going in and power going out. So I ended up always using the paddle shifters.
Jesse's w4m tune gives me more power at lower rpms and a much more responsive transmission. In every day driving (and i'm an aggressive driving when i'm alone) and i'm now having a blast keeping it in sport auto. The transmission shifts very smoothly and predictably. It gives me much more confidence going through a high speed corner and knowing that a downshift won't jerk me around. I can feel the Performance Algorithm Shifting really kicking in coming out of a corner. And there's just loads more power available.

The w4m tune is cheap. $400 spend on a $70,000 car is pittens. He should be charging more!

The tune is completely reversible. Go to the dealer or have it's annual inspection it goes back to stock.

No hardware modifications required.

Jesse from w4m seems to be very knowledgeable, he owns the car himself and had a few months to fiddle with it. I much preferred that than going to a local tune shop where they see the car for the first time.

One of the factory engineers mentioned that they "left a lot on the table" for the v2, unlike the ZR1 which was a much more accurate tune.

So, especially if you have an automatic transmission I can highly recommend it. It's easy to install and you will immediately feel the difference.

Hans.

[jvp]

Originally Posted by jwa999

One of the factory engineers mentioned that they "left a lot on the table" for the v2, unlike the ZR1 which was a much more accurate tune.

I'm not sure which "factory engineer" you spoke with, but it's simply not the case. The factory fuel parameters were, in part, tuned by a very good friend of mine, whom I've been speaking with behind the scenes about this subject. I'm not at liberty to say who he is or what he's been saying exactly. But, his comments are not particularly positive regarding what Jesse is doing with the tune.

If folks are happy with their tunes and feel safe that the engine is doing what it should, then by all means go for it and enjoy. But, you ARE risking issues with your engine by messing with the fuel parameters, even if Jesse claims otherwise. And, his claim about being undetectable is patently false. If GM wants to find it, they'll find it. As long as you understand those two points, you'll be fine. :-)

jas

[NormV]

Why so many zones? Do they accommodate the different fuel pressures better?

Norm

[The Tony Show]

Originally Posted by rjoffe

Can you guys comment on why after market tuning on a stock setup is required ? I'm not questioning the results, and completely understand the tune requirements if any mods are made. Just curious why the factory stock setup seems to be so far off of "ideal"

Thanks,

Ron

Liability and controlling warranty costs. Practically every mass produced car built today (especially high performance models) needs a built-in "safety net" to keep idiots from destroying the car and running GM's warranty cost through the roof.

It's hard for real "car nuts" like us to believe, but there's plenty of people out there who are going to buy a car like this and then throw cheap gas in it, let the air filter get dirty, not change the oil regularly and generally abuse the car. Also, the engineers have to try and plan for every extreme situation (like a guy sitting in bumper to bumper traffic for an hour and heat soaking the engine, then seeing daylight and flooring it), so they build in a certain amount of "cushion" to reduce the likelihood of part failures.

If you're willing to be fastidious about your service, only use the best gas, and be smart about not flooring the car if the oil's cold or the engine is heatsoaked, aftermarket tunes can pull back some of that cushion and let you enjoy more of what the car is capable of.

[Razorecko]

I have never heard an engineer ever state anything outside the fact that the oem tune is perfect in their manufactured vehicle. And I do really agree with the above statement. The factory tunes are setup to basically handle the extreme mis maintenance of a car newb. Someone that will put in the cheapest gas, let the air filter rot for 30k miles, etc.

[LITTLEELVISDAN]

Originally Posted by jvp

I'm not sure which "factory engineer" you spoke with, but it's simply not the case. The factory fuel parameters were, in part, tuned by a very good friend of mine, whom I've been speaking with behind the scenes about this subject. I'm not at liberty to say who he is or what he's been saying exactly. But, his comments are not particularly positive regarding what Jesse is doing with the tune.



jas

I'm calling "BULLSH1T" on this post..
I know a guy who knows a guy who's done it. yeah right! Pony up the guys name and what exactly he is saying. Otherwise its as good as made up in your head....

What's your buddy say about the engineer that designed the V1 rear diff. I am sure that guy thought he nailed the design.... NOT..

[LITTLEELVISDAN]

I tested software for 15 years. Ran groups of 100 testers. I NEVER SAW CODE THAT WAS RIGHT THE FIRST, SECOND, THIRD, ETC. TIME. Any engineer that tells you his code is perfect at any given time of a development or production cycle is full of CRAP. So your buddy that thinks his AF ratios and ECM programming out of GM is perfect and bullet proof,,, That comment astounds me... No it scares me..

[jvp]

Originally Posted by LITTLEELVISDAN

I'm calling "BULLSH1T" on this post

Believe what you like. It doesn't really matter much to me. :-) Good luck with your car.

I tested software for 15 years. Ran groups of 100 testers. I NEVER SAW CODE THAT WAS RIGHT THE FIRST, SECOND, THIRD, ETC. TIME. Any engineer that tells you his code is perfect at any given time of a development or production cycle is full of CRAP. So your buddy that thinks his AF ratios and ECM programming out of GM is perfect and bullet proof,,, That comment astounds me... No it scares me..

Your experience aside, you've no idea the kind of work that went into the testing and tuning of the new supercharged blocks from GM (the LSA and LS9, specifically). Are they perfect? Probably not. Is there gobs of HP and MPG to be had by twiddling some bits in it? If you believe that, then I've some beachfront property in AZ that I'll sell ya. Cheap.



Ultimately, I'm going to stick by my original statement, which is this:

If folks are happy with their tunes and feel safe that the engine is doing what it should, then by all means go for it and enjoy. But, you ARE risking issues with your engine by messing with the fuel parameters

jas

[jwa999]

Originally Posted by jvp

I'm not sure which "factory engineer" you spoke with, but it's simply not the case. The factory fuel parameters were, in part, tuned by a very good friend of mine, whom I've been speaking with behind the scenes about this subject. I'm not at liberty to say who he is or what he's been saying exactly. But, his comments are not particularly positive regarding what Jesse is doing with the tune.

jas

I didn't speak with any engineer, i read it in one of the many articles about the cts-v. And I found references in other forums that must have read the same article:

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho....php?p=6664227

"Even the GM engineers said they left a good 10% of "tune" for the vehicle left on the table...."

As far as your friend not having particular positive comments about Jesse. Has he applied Jesse's tune to any of his cars and analyzed the results? It sounds like your friend wouldn't like anybody messing with his design.
I personally am just interested in facts.

Hans.

[Hawkeye2]

I am skeptical about tunes. I have nothing factual to back up - just my opinion. The factory will not push every part, engine
included to the extreme for every day use. This would include the mechanical tolerance of all parts. So, in theory there is
probably some gain to be made by tuning a car to a specific need. Is it worth it?

That is the question. I believe that any change to the ECM is traceable even if returned to stock. I'll try to find out from Matt Harlan
a GM engineer to see what he says.

Now as for fact. I had my 98 Camaro LS1 "tuned" at a speed shop in Detroit. I paid $500 and gained 6HP. Dynoed the same day same
dyno before and after tune. Worth it? No way! Maybe just my experience at that shop that day, but has really made me gun shy
about tuning a new car.

[Short-Throw]

Originally Posted by jwa999

I didn't speak with any engineer, i read it in one of the many articles about the cts-v. And I found references in other forums that must have read the same article:

"Even the GM engineers said they left a good 10% of "tune" for the vehicle left on the table...."

Hans.

You can all believe what you want but jvp is correct.

What was said and what was reported are two different things.

It is absolutely mind boggling how the press distorts or reports erroneous information. I can't believe there aren't more swampland owners here.


The V was run at higher power levels and it's believed another 10% could be attained relatively easily with parts changed!. The differences between LSA & LS9 were also outlined - emphasizing parts changed is what was required to go from 556/551 power to 638/604 AND meet all durability requirements.

Journalist using their ubiquitous freedom of interpretation took that to mean the calibration left 10% on the table. Simply not true without hardware changes. Messing with the calibration WILL decrease durability.

Tunes are detectable by GM, it doesn't matter if you flash it back, they contain a CVN code and other measures which I will not discuss.

I still challenge anybody with a tuned only V, to come out to Autobahn and run against my bone stock V and prove any significant gain, if at all.


Mike

[LITTLEELVISDAN]

WOW I guess there will never be an update for your cars since they are perfect day one. HMMM! NOT!!!! My STS-V has already had 7 ECM updates and a couple TCM updates and a couple versions of the NAV unit... \for what? you ask.. Because they got it WRONG the first time. and they continue to fix software BUGS.. I could go on for days listing the issues GM and every car company got wrong.. Pinto sharp sprockett by gas tank. KABOOM!!! They thought they got that right the first time..........

I'll bet you get a fix in the first 6 months if you haven't already. Check the service manager and see if there are any updates avaiable yet.

Nothing is perfect and it will never be.. Not even GM's programs... Not anyones programs.

Still havent seen your buddys name or comments.....

[jvp]

Originally Posted by LITTLEELVISDAN

Still havent seen your buddys name or comments.....

You'll have a better chance of seeing Elvis than you will my friend's name or direct comments.

I'm done here. Good luck with your tuning. :-)

jas

[wait4me]

HMM this thread went way out of whack. Tunes do make changes and i agree, not every tune out there that tuners do are better.. Some tuners are better than others also.. We are all human. Also to state that G M calibrators never make mistakes is hilarous. Humans make mistakes. So do software computer generated values. A computer can only output valid information if it has valid information given to it.

But to say tunes / aftermarket tunes dont make a vehicle run better is rediculous. I wouldnt be in biz selling tunes if word of mouth and people showing thier vehicle to other people with the same vehicle to show them the differences. Not everyone is the same, nor have the same tastes. So i just tailor the vehicle to what the customer wants. He paid for it, he should get it how he wants.

Just as people that want different shifts, or more low end power..

I would love to go to the autobahn, How about this, I bring a driver with me. Ill bring a stock part modified tuned auto with me and he drives, and if he wins you pay all my travel expenses and getting the car over and back. If i loose ill pay yours..