What is the best synthetic oil? Best oil filter?

[gtg732w]

Originally Posted by SlvrBullIT

Any word on the AMSoil filters, they are larger, higher capacity etc etc. but are they "better" than lets say a mobil 1, wix etc?

I read an article a while ago (if I can find it again I will post a link) that explained a lot about the dynamics within the oil filtering process.

What the article claimed was that under hard acceleration the difference in pressure between one side of the filter (unfiltered oil) and the other (the filtered oil) would be too large, and to keep oil flowing through the engine at a normal rate some oil would have to be pulled through the filter container but around the actual filter rather than through it.

The idea for the larger filter is that it can filter a greater volume of oil so that under full throttle the engine is still receiving 100% filtered oil, rather than some filtered oil with some unfiltered oil.

I do think though (and some others have mentioned this) that the biggest thing you need to be concerned with is how well the oil holds up to chemical changes within the engine (viscosity changes, breakdown of the oil and additives, etc.).

Just some food for thought.

[SlvrBullIT]

True, but with a larger filter, less should get bypassed for a given same filtering capacity of the filtering medium. That's not to say what happens when the filter starts to get clogged.

[wfo]

Originally Posted by Peter Gregg

Then we would never move ahead, I feel we are the deciding factor of what we do or add to our cars. Same for doctors, they aren't the last word over your body - you are.

I have read here that Mobil 1 has changed it formula. On the other hand I have read over here: http://www.lincolnsonline.com/tech/00105.html that Amsoil is good but adds more stuff to keep the viscosity up and it is the additives that really break down and not the oil - but he likes Mobil 1. But which Mobil 1, the old or the new??.

Personally I like and trusted the names Mobil 1 and Amsoil but now they both have "reasonable doubt" so it makes it hard to choose and causing me to look at Royal Purple. Ironically Royal Purple is a synthetic oil I would have not considered before. What is the world coming too

Peter

With all due respect Peter unless you hear that Mobil 1 changed it's formula from Mobil, GM or other known solid industry source, you can't be proof positive.

Bottom-line: If you want to spend your money on different oil for your car that's your perogative. To assume Mobil 1 doesn't meet or exceed high performance requirements because you heard it on a "Forum" is erroneous at best.

I've looked at Amsoil and consider it to be prohibitively expensive due to it's ridiculous need to market it thru multi level. I've heard conflicting thoughts, philosophies or feelings from several competent Corvette Tuners in Nort Texas about Royal Purple.


Simply put.

If there was a special golden formula tested and compared by a reputable entity, proving to enable these cars to run cooler, smoother and faster, I'd be running for it. At this point I'm sticking with what the MFG of this great car and their other high performance cars (Corvette) within model heirarchy have decided. Because they had the opportunity to do differently if they saw a benefit.

If it's good enough for Corvtte to use in their 24 Hr LeMans Rolex series cars, my cammed 08 Z06...I think my future daily driver CTS-V will be happy too.

[SlvrBullIT]

I think it would be naive to think GM would use "the best available" oil to put in their cars, they don't use the "best materials" either, it's a balancing match of cost vs. benefit. Mobil 1 may have come with it but I bet.... it is not the best. Just like Nitrogen fill is better than standard air fill....but our V's didn't come with nitrogen filled tires from the factory...... compressed air is cheaper than nitrogen fill. I'm not a Mobil 1 hater by any means, they make a great product, but some of us want "better", not just standard, or what it came with. Moreover, if we thought that way, no one would "mod" their car...would they??

[1BlinkGone]

Originally Posted by wfo

Why do we think we know better than the engineers at GM?

Mobil 1 is what GM engineers spec'd this car to use. It's also what they spec'd the Corvettes..the coupes, convertibles, Z06 and ZR-1 too. It's also what the C6R Corvettes at the 24 HR LeMans use as well.

So again, why do we insist on recreating the preverbial wheel? Experiment, In my humble opinion..don't do it with high priced equipment. Even if someone you trust says it's OK.

Why? Never underestimate influence of the beancounters in GM's accounting dept, that's why.

[Dallara]

~


I'll only offer up this...

When I was involved in Indy Cars I found out one rather interesting tidbit. The only oil that both Ilmor and Cosworth engine companies recommended was Mobil 1 - period.

Then when we ran with Infiniti engines the first half of 1997 in the IRL the only oil that Nissan said to run in the engines was Mobil 1.

We switched to the TWR/Oldsmobile (which were later rebadged as a Chevrolet) powerplants mid-season in 1997, and ran those into the year 2000. During that time we used two different engine builders - Speedway Engines in Indianapolis and Comptech in California - and both of them only recommended one oil, Mobil 1.

And all this regardless of if you had a competing major oil company sponsor (as we did at one point) or not. Often if you ran an oil other than Mobil 1 those engine companies were skeptical of any engine problems your team might have. On more than one occasion engine suppliers showed us the effects of running other oils in comparison to Mobil 1, and the differences in wear marks and patterns was dramatic.

Mind you, none of these companies were affiliated with Mobil 1 in any way, nor did they receive any sort of compensation from them. Each of the engine suppliers simply stated they had never found any other oil that performed as well, nor protected components as well, as Mobil 1 did.

Just FYI...

Needless to say, Mobil 1 is what I use in my CTS-V.

Dallara


~

[SlvrBullIT]

Amazing what the power of free is, ask them how much they spent on oil.....

[Dallara]

~

Originally Posted by SlvrBullIT

Amazing what the power of free is, ask them how much they spent on oil.....

Sorry. I don't think you understand...

Cosworth, Ilmor, etc. didn't need even free oil, nor get it. The customers (like our team) paid for or otherwise supplied the oil from the team's sponsors. With Cosworth and Ilmor we leased the engines, and we could run whatever oil we chose. However, they did a lot of testing with oils, and had seen the results of what any number of teams' engines looked like inside at rebuild time.

Same with Infiniti, Speedway, and Comptech... Oil was supplied by the teams that owned the engines and contracted with them for engines, builds, rebuilds, support, etc. Again, no oil was supplied to them by Mobil - period.

But hey, take it for what you think it's worth... Like I said, I was only providing the result of my experiences as FYI. Use whatever you like.

But I can honestly say I know - for a fact - that none of those engine suppliers or build shops got any *freebie* oil from Mobil.

Just out of curiosity what are you basing your conclusion about Ilmor, Cosworth, Infiniti/Nissan, TWR, Speedway, or Comptech on?

Dallara


~

[SlvrBullIT]

Sponsorship mostly, my father and I raced a lot when he was younger. Sponsorship even, just for free stuff goes a long way, regardless of top tier or "just works well". Never said Mobil 1 was bad or is inferior or won't work. Mobil 1 may be adequate and that is what many companies tested on and approved use of their engines on, but by no means is it "the best available". I got no beef with Mobil 1, but I just don't think it's "the best available". I'll pay a little a more of top tier since my car is DD and probable track car, i.e. double duty, where Cosworth motors are strictly racing motors.

I may stick with Mobil 1 but if AMSoil is "well rounded enough" I may go with it, both will probably suit me just fine, but I always like to do my homework.

[wfo]

Thanks Dallara...the voice of reason. GM builds awesome push rod natuarally aspirated muscle-cars, namely Corvettes and CTS-V's. The Corvettes particularly have been winning the GT1 class for many years with no competition and on Mobil 1 lubricant.

People will always feel there is somewhere for their rides. In this case it's talk of a better designed lubricant. Amsoil, Royal Purple and others are, great products. Are they worth the extra money? Will they deliver the difference over the MFG's recommended Mobil 1? I say no.

If it makes you feel like your car will perform better, by all means buy it. Your Local Tuner will probably love you if it's what tey are selling. They too have to make a living.

My Tuner, Quality Motorsports, Lewisville, TX highly recommends Mobil 1. They're C6 Corvette Forum Vendors and stay very busy in a tight economy developing and delivering perfomance packages for many of the C5/C6 LS based motors throughout the country and now they've taken on the CTS-V. In fact the owner Patrick Sparks just took delivery of an 09 silver CTS V Monday 6/29.

Mobil 1 all the way!!

[Dallara]

~


Well, I don't know what level of motorsports racing or sponsorship you were involved at, SlvrBullIT, but I can honestly say none of the major engine suppliers in Indy Car based their oil recommendations on "freebies"...

Our team had lease contracts with both Ilmor-Mercedes-Benz and Cosworth-Ford at different junctures and neither were in any way compensated by Mobil. In fact, they were more than happy to try any oil your team might be getting from a sponsor and provide you not only oil analysis but also evaluations of component wear characteristics using your team's sponsor's oil.

Interesting story for you...

At one point we had one of the largest motor oil companies in the world as our primary sponsor. In fact, they literally "bought" the whole car - i.e. they got the color scheme and their logos splashed all over the car, our transporter and tractor rig, uniforms, etc., etc., etc., and we had to do tons of promotional work for them, including show cars and the like. Needless to say we got all the oil we wanted and/or could need for the race efforts at the Indy 500 and all our other events. It was a plush, multi-seven-figure sponsorship deal... The kind you always dream of.

There was only one problem...

Even the ultra-trick, super-special, produced-just-for-their-race-efforts "synthetic racing oil" showed HORRENDOUS wear and tear on the engine components when the first engines in need of scheduled rebuild went back to Cosworth. Cosworth was so alarmed they asked us for some samples of the oil right out of the container to have analyzed right along with the used oil that had come out of the mileaged engines in for rebuild. They even put two identical Cosworth XB's up on the dyno - one with our sponsor's oil and the other with their baseline Mobil 1 - and ran them to check and make sure of their previous conclusions. Between that and the independent oil analysis data they determined that we would could potentially have some really severe and major engine issues if we continued to use the sponsor's oil, whose name everyone here would recognize instantly if I were to reveal it.

We were between a real rock and a hard place. At first we informed the the oil company of the findings, and they said they would check it out with their chemical engineers. They determined that their oil was fine and to continue to use it. We did go through another entire engine cycle and had Cosworth check everything again, and again the results were frighteningly alarming wear and potential engine explosions.

So bad, in fact, that Cosworth said they would not honor their usual policy of backing up an engine that failed prior to the normal rebuild mileage schedule provided it had not been overreved, etc.

So what did we do?

Well, for the rest of the season we went out and bought Mobil 1 synthetic from an old friend that was a distributor, and who was also thankfully incredibly discrete... And we would get in cases of the sponsor's oil, carefully open the boxes, and pour it into 55-gallon drums at our race shop to be used for our shop vehicles, employee's vehicles, lawn mowers, etc., etc., etc. - you name it. Meanwhile we would refill the sponsor's oil bottles with Mobil 1, carefully recapped them, and put them back in the cases, carefully then gluing them back shut. We did this all late at night so we would have all the shelves at the shop and in the transporter stocked during times when we might have visitors or other "eyes" around, and as such it always appeared we were pouring the sponsor's oil into the oil tanks of the race cars.

Was it a deception? Certainly, but one we felt was necessary to insure thant we never had an engine failure. One, those engine rebuilds form Cosworth were not in the least bit cheap, and two, it would have looked mighty bad for the oil company sponsor if we ever had an engine grenade from an apparent lubrication-related failure.

And we never did have any engine problems, and we kept the sponsor for quite a while. Oddly enough, when we had to switch over to the normally aspirated IRL powerplant rules each of the engine suppliers/builders we used there did much the same kind of analysis and testing of the same sponsor's "racing oil" and came to the same conclusions that Cosworth did, and as such we carried on the deception and continued to use Mobil 1 oil we actually bought.

BTW, for some this story may sound incredible and might somehow amke one think we were somehow not being fair with the sponsor. I'm sorry if anyone feels that way, as I assure you things like that happen much more than most think in motorsports. Actually, I never did feel we were being unfair to the sponsor... Quite the opposite. I felt they were being unfair to us in not providing us an important component we needed to reliably and safely compete and run up front in races for them.

I did, however, often feel we were being unfair to the fans and consumers who might have bought the sponsor's oil products based on our team and performance. Little did they know the oil we were "selling" was something I really didn't even want in my lawn mower or shop truck. The only advantage for us was that we got so much oil from the sponsor that we could all afford to change it incredibly often in any shop vehicles - sometimes less than every 1,000 miles...

Still, it bugged me that people might have bought oil based on what we were doing, and that the oil they may have bought was less than desirable by our standards.

Anyway, there's a racing oil story for ya'...

And another illustration of why I use Mobil 1 even to this day in my vehicles for the most part (I don't use it in some of my motorcycles that have very specific needs...).

Just FYI.

Dallara




~

[SlvrBullIT]

Again.... I have no problems with mobil 1............. I repeat I have no problems with mobil 1.......... I repeat I have no problems with mobil 1...........

I've switched on and off with Mobil 1 and Castrol depending on whose paying or giving, however, like most anything the pinnacle product is rarely the most widely used or bought. So far on the V, the mobil1 is very good, slight mpg decrease, but I may send in for analysis, otherwise top notch. Just looking for what other people have in use of other products. I might even start another thread war with best reusable air filter....... neways Have to figure out when to do the next maintenance drop for all fluids and figure out how much brake fluid to buy to swap it out.

[SlvrBullIT]

Your story could have gone the other way like I've seen it, the sponsors will always "push" you to use what "they" want. SO you got crap oil, we got a sponsor and got crap tires!!!

[Dallara]

~

Originally Posted by SlvrBullIT

Your story could have gone the other way like I've seen it, the sponsors will always "push" you to use what "they" want. SO you got crap oil, we got a sponsor and got crap tires!!!

First off, I fully understand you have no problems with Mobil 1. I fully understood that previously. I just thought given your racing background that you would enjoy the story.

And the real point of the story was to show that folks like Cosworth and Ilmor had no ulterior motives, nor any incentives, from Mobil to recommend their oil. They simply based their Mobil 1 recommendation on what they had seem as far as wear and tear on internal engine components and on constantly ongoing oil analysis, both on other oils and Mobil 1.

No doubt in my mind that if the oil company sponsor in the story above had ever discovered us using the Mobil 1 that some there would have wanted us to use their inferior product... However, as we soon discovered, there were some there that might have actually wanted us to continue our ruse. After all, we were there strictly as a promotional tool to sell their product, and as I said we soon discovered they considered us no more than marketing instruments in ways we could have never imagined. Those folks there cared little for the team nor its people. As such they went to great lengths to impose their will in other ways but would have probably been fine with the use of another brand oil to sell their products...

Fortunately those people are no longer with that company, but that's another story...

Certainly the oil sponsor could have forced us to use their oil, but the point is they could have forced US, not forced Cosworth, Ilmor, Infiniti, Ed Pink, TWR, Speedway, or Comptech to recommend their oil. Nor was Mobil influencing any of these engine supplier/builders to recommend their product. Only testing, experience, and analysis guided their recommendation of Mobil 1.

For the record, I used to use Amsoil for a while. I have also used Shell Rotella oils in multiple vehicles. We use Golden Spectro synthetic pre-mix in our vintage motocross race bikes. I used Castrol GTX 20w/50 for decades in motorcycles, and later when I was a Honda dealer I used their branded oils which at first were made by Kendall and later Ashland (Valvoline). We were once sponsored by an esoteric industrial oil called Petro-Moly, and used it briefly (switching again back to Mobil 1). I've used boutique brand oils like Redline, Bel-Ray, etc. I've used mainstream oils like Shell, Castrol, Valvoline, etc., too, as well as car maker branded oils like Ford/Motorcraft, Chrysler/Mopar, GM, etc. Point is I'm not an "oil snob" who only believes that there is one, true "holy grail" of oils as some do. Personally I think there are a lot of good, and even great, ones out there, and that really almost any of them will protect your engine's components just fine if you change it often enough. As it should be, it is your car and you should run what you think is best...

I am using the Mobil 1 in my CTS-V first because GM recommended it and second because of my experience with the engine suppliers/builders mentioned above.

Just for the record, I have been using both the AC Delco UltraGuard UPF48R and Mobil 1 M1-113 oil filters on my CTS-V. I changed the oil first at 500 miles, then at 1,500, and finally again at 3,500 miles. Filter that came off from the factory was an AC Delco PF48. One of the Mobil 1 M1-113's went on at the first change because I didn't have the UltraGuard UPF48R's in yet. Since then each change I have used the UPF48R filters.

Interesting note... From simple inspection looking through the oil filter openings I would be willing to bet the Mobil 1 M1-113 oil filters and the AC Delco UPF48R filters are made by the same outfit. They appear literally identical on the inside, whereas the standard PF48 looks considerably different. The standard PF48 is also substantially lighter than the M1-113 or the UPF48R, whereas both those weigh exactly the same.

Just FYI...

Dallara



~

[thebigjimsho]

Much ado about nothing.