BMW, Bavarian, does not have AWD on their cars other than the X3 and X5 (ehm, right?) and they do fine.
Wow, so you do remember some of Oktoberfest? I would not survive a drink 'till you drop kinda festival. I also skip carnival for the same reason. I am not a party pooper, but if the focus is on drinking large amounts of alcohol I just have to pass as I cannot handle that. Anyway, hope you had a great time!
I did Oktoberfest on my last trip, including the beer and roast chicken, the day before I flew out of Munich - very little driving after that other than to the airport. All of the serious driving was done prior to that primarily along the German-Austrian border. My BMW (323i as I remember) was a rental - certainly not an M car. However, although the traction was great on the well manicured paved roads I nearly burned out the clutch on a few of the steep inclines. The clutch is the weak point on most BMWs as I found out first hand. But the tires never needed AWD for traction. I didn't spend much time on the autobahn on this trip but have done that in the past. Would love to take my V over there next time and check out the top speed at closer to sea level.
In these kind of threads you will always end up with the "a true driver/purist only needs RWD and a manual transmission" statements. Unfortunately technology is passing you by.
The dual clutch gear boxes coming out are simply the best of both worlds (manual vs. automatic). Go check reviews of the latest M3 dual clutch offering.
Some of the cars we're talking about have so much torque that you simply can't put it to the pavement. Advanced AWD systems that are RWD most of the time but can power any wheel at will based on individual traction levels, steering wheel position, rate of accelleration/decelleration etc. etc. are going to be necessary and won't detract from your pure driving pleasure (if they do for certain special occasions then you can disable them at will).
So because BMW doesn't offer it on their current M cars we just have to assume that AWD is evil. I'm predicting that once M cars are released at torque levels of 550 they'll need to add AWD to stay competitive as well (newly released M3 only has 295 lb-ft). I bet you GM is heavily researching it for the next Corvette generation. Heck Lambo's currently have AWD and that's not just because they are in the Audi camp.
^^^ Precisely my point several posts ago in this thread. There are lots of car manufacturers such as Nissan dabbling in AWD for high performance cars. However, it will take a serious committment and $$ investment by GM to produce an AWD that will deliver what's needed in a dynamic operating environment as well as hold up to the rigors of 500+ hp.
Bugatti created a total of three four-wheel drive racers, the Type 53, in 1932, but the cars were legendary for having poor handling. Ferguson Research Ltd. built the front-engine P99 Formula One car that actually won a non-WC race with Stirling Moss in 1961. In 1969, Team Lotus raced cars in F1 and the Indy 500 that had both turbine engines and 4WD, as well as the 4WD-Lotus 63 that had the standard Cosworth engine. Matra also raced a similar MS84, and McLaren entered their M9A in the British Grand Prix, while engine manufacturers Cosworth produced their own version which was tested but never raced. All these F1 cars were considered inferior to their RWD counterparts, as the advent of aerodynamic downforce meant that adequate traction could be obtained in a lighter and more mechanically efficient manner, and the idea was discontinued, even though Lotus tried repeatedly.
The aero packages work great at tripple digits. Street aero from the factory is usually about reducing lift rather than producing much downforce (or decoration - many are totally non-functional). The ones that are functional do not do a lot at low speeds.
A 1932 RWD Chevrolet was no handling powerhouse either. What's the point? Back in the day, the Audi Quattro was banned for its superiority. Yadda, yadda, yadda.
Since the RWD lovers are already getting their V2; let those of us with more cash than brains buy one with AWD. We're obviously delusional.
And God looked down upon the little humans scurring around in their supercharged Cadillacs and wondered how they'd take the next round of weather. Snow. Ice. Rain. Over 600 hp at the crank (Screw the warranty). And God said "Yep, it's time for AWD."
A 1932 RWD Chevrolet was no handling powerhouse either. What's the point? Back in the day, the Audi Quattro was banned for its superiority. Yadda, yadda, yadda.
Since the RWD lovers are already getting their V2; let those of us with more cash than brains buy one with AWD. We're obviously delusional.
And God looked down upon the little humans scurring around in their supercharged Cadillacs and wondered how they'd take the next round of weather. Snow. Ice. Rain. Over 600 hp at the crank (Screw the warranty). And God said "Yep, it's time for AWD."
So it shall be written. So it shall be done.
LOL!
well, it is not 2010 yet, so I might make up my mind...
So what you are really saying is that they should quit chasing BMW
Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gothicaleigh
and start following Audi?
No. Im saying Cadillac needs a clearly defined image. I surely don't want it to be "BMW for less money" AWD would offer a tonne of flexibility in the V-lineup that none of the German rivals offer.
I understand that its against the purists code of rwd + 6 spd manual...but lets not forget the V allready is a compromise. Its very heavy and has too many seats. Sure, lots of people here even call it the 4dr 'Vette.
A rwd V, even with a manual, is still a compromise. Thats no insult because it does what it does great! AWD would be just another slight compromise, with lots of added benefits. There would be more configurations of V, and if designed right, would still perform really well.
I would not survive a drink 'till you drop kinda festival. I also skip carnival for the same reason. I am not a party pooper, but if the focus is on drinking large amounts of alcohol I just have to pass as I cannot handle that. Anyway, hope you had a great time!
