Who has the latest dirt?

[verbs]

Originally Posted by Cadillac Tony

Configured M5

Assuming a fully loaded 2009 CTS-V stickers out for close to $70k with Recaros and everything (if it ends up being that high, which we still don't know for sure), where's the other $23k in value?

How about better resale value and better build quality? The 7 speed SMG tranny is a pretty fun too IMO, and the M5 IMO is a more fun car to drive. Doesn't that count for anything? Besides, you're comparing the price/amenities/features on the soon to be outgoing M5 to a CTS-V that hasn't even come out yet.

Wait until say 2010 or so when a new 550hp V-10 version of the M5 comes out with even more fun toys, and then get back to me.

[Cadillac Tony]

You guys kill me, really.

Build quality is basically a wash. You don't see laser braised panel joining, exposed edge of glass or <2mm interior panel gaps on an M5, but they still have always had a very well built car. The CTS is now equal in build quality.

Resale value is historically lower on American cars, but we're debating cars, not investments. If you feel it's worth spending an extra $30k at purchase time to get an extra $15k (or less) at trade time, be my guest. I'm no investment banker, but that sounds like a pretty bad return on your money.

Originally Posted by verbs

Besides, you're comparing the price/amenities/features on the soon to be outgoing M5 to a CTS-V that hasn't even come out yet.

Wait until say 2010 or so when a new 550hp V-10 version of the M5 comes out with even more fun toys, and then get back to me.

The "something else better is coming" game can be played forever. I'm comparing the 2009 CTS-V to the 2009 M5- companies will always "one-up" each other every few years, and it's Cadillac's turn to be top dog for few.

[urbanski]

new cars themselves, no matter the make, are a bad idea. let somebody else take the depreciation hit. buy that 2 years old off lease cherry

[thebigjimsho]

Originally Posted by urbanski

new cars themselves, no matter the make, are a bad idea. let somebody else take the depreciation hit. buy that 2 years old off lease cherry

Or pay even less for one that's been, shall we say, "broken in"?

[RightTurn]

No, no. The new car smell is worth the depreciation.

[HushH]

[StealthV]

Figured the Cadillac salesman training material spam would start again.

[ylwjacket]

Why all the "M5 is better than V", or consequently, "V is better than M5" bashing?

It seems to me that the V will be on par, at least performance-wise, with some of the best performance sedans in the world. As for the interior, it looks great so far.

As for price vs value - who knows? Some people like broccoli, some don't. People will buy wha they like.

I would be a bit surprised if anyone is walking around saying "I can't quite afford an M5, so I'll settle for a V".

I would doubt that, in this segment, too many people are saying "I can't quite afford an M5, so I'll settle for a V". If they wanted an M5 that badly, they'd buy one 2 years old for less than the price of a new V. There's about 10 of them on ebay. There's one year old ones for about 70k.

Buy what you want and be done with it.

[StealthV]

One big plus for V2 is not laser welding, panel gaps, a 40 GB harddrive, engine power or whatever other marketing BS we're all fed.

The simple advantage is cost effective powertrain modifications from a near infinite number of aftermarket sources. And compared to V1, a plethora of aftermarket wheel options by switching to Bayerische Motoren Werke hub specs.

Hmm, perhaps I'll bolt up my M5 wheels onto the new V when it arrives. And I'll polish the guaranteed-GM orange-peel paint with pride. Can fire and brimstone be hurled all the way from a dealership in Florida? BMW wheels on a Cadillac is a sign of the apocalypse.

[Kadonny]

Stealth, I love you and all, but you're starting to sound like CVP33 when he lept to Mopar. The M5 is a great, great car but it sounds like to me you are dissing Caddy a bit too much. Do they have issues? Sure, they all do, but for every negative dealer experience you have had or orange peel paint issue, many have had just the opposite, including me.

Just my .02.

[RightTurn]

^^ And personally, I can do without the obvious insults aimed at Tony. That sucks.

[StealthV]

My last thread talked about the advantages of V2, including the better 5-bolt wheels. If that rubs you guys the wrong way, stop taking anything on this forum so damn serious.

And the person you're worried about better grow thicker skin if he keeps talking about how Cadillac is the undisputed best with any debate obviously just biased BMW love.

A V2 will be in my garage before a M5.

Can we all kiss and make up now?

P.S. BMW is still the ultimate driving machine. Get over it.

[CTSV_510]

Originally Posted by StealthV

P.S. BMW is still the ultimate driving machine. Get over it.

! !!!



haha j/k

It's ok Stealth, some people are just sensitive. Like my girlfriend.

BMWs are in fact ultimate driving machines. I'd get one, but I don't think I could handle the ridicule from my friends.

[Cadillac Tony]

My skin's plenty thick- both the bright Florida sunshine and a decade in car business have given me an exterior bordering on rawhide.

I've got no problem with debate, but most of the Pro-BMW or MB comments in here border on insulting or condescending toward Cadillac such as your "that's why it will never command M5 money" remark. I take exception to shots like that for three reasons: The obvious first being that my livelihood depends on Cadillac's success, secondly because I'm an owner and enthusiast of the brand, and third because you're way off base on a lot of the remarks. Issues like build quality and Dealer service are no longer undisputed victories for the imports- in fact, Cadillac exceeds them in many of the unbiased research reports that are published yearly (Consumer Guide, JD Power, etc). All this talk about the "Premium Experience" you get owning a BMW- here's a quick Google search on "BMW Terrible Service"- oh look! They have crappy Dealers, too!

Bring an intelligent discourse with some FACTS or up to date opinon and we can have a nice chat. Listening to people spouting falsities about how much greater a car is just because of the badge on the hood or how the magically wonderful the Service is gets old fast.

[ylwjacket]

I'll say this - in the absence of any real info yet, it seems to me that this subsection of the board has become a constant attack on the V2 by the fans of just about all other car brands.

I wish Cadillac would release info, and maybe some of this would abate. In the meantime, the V2 has been trashed and thrashed by about every other brand fan on these boards. Someone from Mars reading these threads would go buy just about anything else first, which is fine with me.

Unlike Tony, my livelihood does not depend on Cadillac's success, so I'd just as soon have the only V2 on the West Coast of Florida (sorry Tony - don't sell one to anyone south of Gainesville).

But, reading this forum has become a steady drumbeat of one thing after another. I can see where Tony would get a little defensive.

Which brings me back to my other point - there are plenty of great cars out there, so get what you want. Personally, I can appreciate them all, and don't feel compelled to hate on any of them.

I pine for the good old days of this forum, where most of us were excited about the V. Even after a few grenading rears, we still liked it. Even when the bolts holding my front suspension on broke and my diff exploded, I still liked it.

And, maybe unlike most, I've had great dealer experiences. I came to this car FROM a BMW (about 15 years worth of them actually), exactly because of the miserable dealer experience I had with the BMW. I don't harp on it, I just moved on.