Stick or Auto?

[Kidhummer]

Which one do you think will be faster. The Tiptronic porsche turbo is supposedly faster than the 6-speed. So is it possible that the automatic V wil be faster than the manual?

[luxilon]

I expect the auto to be in the same ballpark as the stick, but not faster. Keep in mind that the V is using an auto with torque converter, it isn't a dual clutch system. The dual clutch systems like they're being used in VWs and Audi's shift faster than a human can shift in a stick and can be used both in auto as well as manual shifting modes. Compare that to the paddle shift auto option available in the C6 Corvette (also regular slushbox with torque converter) which is slower than the manual.

Even though there will always be diehards that will swear by a stick the world is moving to dual clutch or even more exotic systems. The first generation of dual clutch systems couldn't handle a whole lot of torque, but now the Nissan GT-R (430 lb-ft) and the BMW M3 (295 lb-ft) will also come with dual clutch systems.

I'm assuming that GM is working very hard on also being able to offer a dual clutch box for their high performance cars. On the M3 the 0-60 time is 0.2s faster than the stick and the 0-100 time is .45s faster! The whole system only weighs an extra 44lbs. It would be a great future model year (2010?) option for the V.

[Vrocks]

The auto has a shot at being faster but it may be tough to put all that power down with such a ridiculous 1st gear ratio.

I'm driving the '08 CTS and the auto is fast, and it rev matches on the downshifts. Even if I don't due true manual mode, the sport option is very smart. When I hit the brakes before a turn it down shifts and it holds the gear for a very long time under part throttle comming out of a turn. I would assume that the auto in the V will shift even faster, and I know they recently improved the speed of the auto in the '08 C6.

[mole177]

manual trans is going to become a lost art.

[Art138]

Quote: "manual trans is going to become a lost art" They stopped making manual in the Ferrari F430 (for U.S) because customers had a preference for paddle shift....

[Dave's V]

When you consider driver reactions the auto might just be faster.

Manuals are going away. They already left F-1 and Champ series and Ferrari is dumping them as someone mentioned.

[HiTechRV]

If the final is the same ratio as was stated in another thread, I predict the stick will be slightly faster unless the individual gears are radically steeper in the auto. But the wild card is the launch control. An auto will allow the ECU more degrees of feedom than a manual so it is possible the auto could be quicker in the 60'.

[Carnalsupply]

I LOVE the way a manual involves me in driving my cars so it'll be a manual for me if the price isn't outrageous.

[BLACK_CTSV]

Originally Posted by Carnalsupply

I LOVE the way a manual involves me in driving my cars so it'll be a manual for me if the price isn't outrageous.

Driving a paddle-shifted car is quite engaging, as well. I can't decide which I would get...

[Dave's V]

Originally Posted by HiTechRV

If the final is the same ratio as was stated in another thread, I predict the stick will be slightly faster unless the individual gears are radically steeper in the auto. But the wild card is the launch control. An auto will allow the ECU more degrees of feedom than a manual so it is possible the auto could be quicker in the 60'.

The trannies 1st gear ratio is different though. The first gear in the auto looks a lot steeper if that wasn't a misprint on Cadillac's site.

Gear Auto Manual
1st 4.02 2.66
2nd 2.36 1.78
3rd 1.53 1.30
4th 1.15 1.00
5th .85 .80
6th .63 .67

[lunarx]

The Auto will need to shift at higher RPM to avoid bogging with those grand canyon wide gear splits.
I suppose it will depend on if the 09V maintains high RPM torque as it pulls those extra revs.
Also, the torque management (reduction) during shifting could be a factor as well.

My prediction is the auto will launch well but bog on the 2-3 shift.
I'm also sure torque management (reduction) will take place on the 1-2 shift (but that's probably a good thing).

The stick has much better ratios and should pull like mad with every shift.
I think the stick with a good driver should win.

[HiTechRV]

Wow I love those wide ratios. Well suited to a little power adding.

I wonder if the auto and manual have the same cam. Those ratio differences would lead me to think not. Any idea what the torque converter stall speed is?

[SRT8/BMW]

Originally Posted by lunarx

The Auto will need to shift at higher RPM to avoid bogging with those grand canyon wide gear splits.
I suppose it will depend on if the 09V maintains high RPM torque as it pulls those extra revs.
Also, the torque management (reduction) during shifting could be a factor as well.

My prediction is the auto will launch well but bog on the 2-3 shift.
I'm also sure torque management (reduction) will take place on the 1-2 shift (but that's probably a good thing).

The stick has much better ratios and should pull like mad with every shift.
I think the stick with a good driver should win.

based on your current ride (which must flat out fly, by the way) you know much more of the mechanics than me. That said..it is rare to see a stick beat an auto, in the same model, on the street. I think it is hard for most drivers to shift as good as the computer...

thoughts?

[lunarx]

Originally Posted by SRT8/BMW

based on your current ride (which must flat out fly, by the way) you know much more of the mechanics than me. That said..it is rare to see a stick beat an auto, in the same model, on the street. I think it is hard for most drivers to shift as good as the computer...

thoughts?

The biggest challenge for the stick driver is the launch.
But yes a missed shift will kill the run too.

The other problem for stick guys is having someone get the jump on them (from a roll) when they are in the wrong gear.


A good driver (on a good surface) could get the 09V stick to launch as well as the auto and with 100 less pounds and a blistering 2-3 shift I think the stick will take the win.
Yes the stick driver has his work cut out for him, but that's what racing is all about and how a driver earns his money.

The auto is going to drop too many revs on the 2-3 shift and I don't see where it can make it back up.
The auto would need to pull out a big lead on the launch or it will get beat.

I don't think anyone disputes that the Auto is toast when it comes to a road course.

[SRT8/BMW]

Originally Posted by lunarx

The biggest challenge for the stick driver is the launch.
But yes a missed shift will kill the run too.

The other problem for stick guys is having someone get the jump on them (from a roll) when they are in the wrong gear.


A good driver (on a good surface) could get the 09V stick to launch as well as the auto and with 100 less pounds and a blistering 2-3 shift I think the stick will take the win.
Yes the stick driver has his work cut out for him, but that's what racing is all about and how a driver earns his money.

The auto is going to drop too many revs on the 2-3 shift and I don't see where it can make it back up.
The auto would need to pull out a big lead on the launch or it will get beat.

I don't think anyone disputes that the Auto is toast when it comes to a road course.

no doubt on the road course... thanks..great answer . I often wonder about that difference in gears and how a good driver gets so much more pull with the stick.