Cadillac CTS 3.6 Headers and 14" Big Brake Kits

[pietroraimondi]

Fellow Forum Members:

Please allow me the opportunity to clarify what has perpetuated as a complete misstatement of facts based on erroneous assumptions by a large number of Forum Members.

Please Tighten Your Seat Belt and Read Carefully:

LUND CADILLAC DID NOT DESIGN, ENGINEER, DEVELOP OR MANUFACTURE THE 3.6 HEADERS THAT THEY HAD AVAILABLE FOR SALE ON THERE WEBSITE TWO YEARS AGO.

IS EVERYONE CRYSTAL CLEAR ON THAT STATEMENT?

I'LL REPEAT IT ONCE AGAIN IF YOU ARE PERHAPS VISION OR ARE PERHAPS INTELLECTUALLY IMPAIRED:

LUND CADILLAC DID NOT DESIGN, ENGINEER, DEVELOP OR MANUFACTURE THE CADILLAC 3.6 CTS HEADERS THAT THEY HAD FOR SALE AT ONE TIME 2 YEARS AGO.

DOES EVERYONE UNDERSTAND THAT NOW?

I CERTAINLY HOPE SO BECAUSE I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT IS POSSIBLE TO BE MORE ANY MORE CLEAR ON THAT STATEMENT.

NOW FOR SOME REASON; THERE IS A RULE THAT WE WERE NOT MADE AWARE OF. AND THAT RULE IS THAT FORUM MEMBERS ARE ENTITLED TO THE DETAILS OF CORPORATE PRIVATE INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY BY SIMPLY ASKING A QUESTION WITH THE EXPECTATION THAT WE COUGH UP ANSWERS WITH REGARD TO WHO OUR SUPPLIERS, VENDORS AND OUTSOURCE COMPANIES ARE THAT WE DO BUSINESS WITH.

You can certainly ask; but only an idiot as a business owner would share there offensive playbook with the opposing defense. So it should not come as any great surprise when a company won't share with you where they buy there alloy steel from at a more favorable price so that company can price there product less than their competitors can. Hopefully that makes a little bit of sense to someone with more than an 8'th grade education.

BUT MANY HAVE ASKED ABOUT THE HISTORY AND ORIGINS OF THE CTS 3.6 HEADERS AND I WILL SHARE WITH THOSE WHO HAVE SUCH A DYING INTEREST IN KNOWING WHAT THE TRUE FACTS ARE; AND HERE THEY ARE:

Lund Cadillac hired an outside 3'rd party automotive engineering company to design, develop, engineer and test a prototype set of headers for the 2004 Cadillac 3.6 CTS

In fact; Lund Cadillac paid a small kings ransom to have that first prototype set built to a set of specifications that produced a minimum predefined amount of RWHP. This particular automotive engineering company retained all of the intellectual property concerning the design, development, engineering and testing of that first set of headers. All of those costs which added up to a kings ransom was paid for in full by Lund Cadillac.

What Lund Cadillac received in return for their investment was the exclusive rights to buy and distribute those headers. Lund Cadillac had no ownership interest in the actual product itself; just the exclusive and sole right to sell it. And at that time; Lund was offering those 3.6 CTS Headers at $1795 which was almost 3 years ago.

The bottom line was that there were "no takers" at $1795 for a first class product that Brabus would sell for $3500 plus that Lund Cadillac was offering for $1795.00

In other words; Lund made a huge investment in having a product built for resale and nobody bought. The headers sat on the shelf and collected dust after Lund Cadillac made a significant investment in having an engineering outsource company custom build them a product for resale and then Lund Cadillac lined there inventory shelves with those headers and could not even give them away on eBay.

How Cadillac MotorSports, Ltd entered the picture was as follows:

• We purchased all of the remaining finished inventory of headers directly from Lund Cadillac
• We purchased the intellectual property as well as the manufacturing jigs and parts inventory from the engineering company that designed, developed, engineered and tested the Cadillac 3.6 Headers and therefore became the sole owner, manufacturer and only seller of these headers. Therefore, we are able to manufacture these 3.6 CTS Headers at will on a custom basis. They are all hand made and not a single die-cast part is used in the production process. In addition, we also received from the engineering company as part of our purchase agreement a crate of unfinished mandrel bent pipes, flange decks that had already been engraved with the word "Lund" on them already. We certainly were not going to throw away perfectly fine 3/8 inch thick T309 stainless steel flange decks that had the word Lund stamped on them if you had any idea of the size of the check that we had to disburse to acquire the "ownership" rights to these headers.

So the bottom line is that we paid two groups of people for the ability to gain sole and exclusive ownership of these headers. The first check went to Lund to buy all of there inventory which has been sold and exhausted.

Then we wrote a "really big check" to the engineering company for the ownership rights and intellectual property to become the sole and exclusive manufacturer and seller of these headers.

And as a bonus; we received a crate of unassembled parts that included some mandrel tubes and 40 plus flange decks that were already engraved with the word "Lund".

How did we improve upon the original design?

• We modified the 3 into 1 wit collector so it now acts as a vortex and forces the burnt exhaust gases into the cats for a quicker burn-off.
• We extrude hone every set of 3.6 headers before they leave the house.
• We jet-hot coat the entire header and isotropic finish it to clean up any internal burr's that may still remain even after extrude honing them
• Our T309 alloy is imported from Japan and is probably the finest alloy that money can buy anywhere in the world. I can assure you that Brembo is not using any U.S domestic foundry's for pouring cast iron or forging alloy.

With regard to our header manufacturing process; we only outsource the extrude honing and jet-hot coating to those respective vendors.

All of the plasma cutting, tig welding and custom manufacturing is done "in-house" from raw T309 stainless steel that we import from Japan.

The same is true for our forged alloy steel brake rotors. We import out steel alloy from Japan and then it is sent to a foundry in England where it is forged into raw rotor blanks. Those rotor blanks are then shipped to us here and will sometimes take a month just to clear customs. Once we receive the raw rotor blank; it is then that the rotor set is custom built with regard to cryo treating it, directionally surfacing it, cross drilling it, nickel plating it and creating a finished product.

So contrary to popular belief - we don't just drill holes through somebody else's rotors and we don't operate a foundry; nor does General Motors raise cattle on the back 40 for the leather seats in your CTS.

Our business philosophy is a very simple one. We attempt in every endeavor to build and stand behind the very best performance and appearance products manufactured from the very best materials. And we are able to do so at usually 1/2 the price of our competitors.

We have never had a product fail in the marketplace because we don't deviate from using the very best raw materials and we don't sell anything that we haven't tested, tested and retested.

You have to remember that the United States automotive aftermarket is a completely unregulated industry. When you buy that new car; automobile manufacturers have certain rules and guidelines that are set forth by the DOT and the NHTSB that they must subscribe to.

But when you buy an aftermarket set of brakes rotors; who is watching out for your safety?

We buy our alloy steel from Japan as well as Germany as it is the very best alloy steel that money can buy on the commodity market.

All bolt hardware might look the same when it's new and shiny, but I can assure you that there is a significant safety difference when we build a product and use bolt hardware that has a tensile strength of 10.9 versus grade 5 hardware that is manufactured in southeast Asia. There is a reason why a single bolt costs $2.00 and the grade 5 bolt is only worth 13 cents.

That $2.00 bolt might mean the difference of having and end link stay intact when your making a hard turn under heavy braking versus having it shear off because it's held together with part bin grade 5 hardware.

We are certainly not all things to everyone; nor do we want to be. We also don't believe that there is anything to be gained by knocking your competition or there products. But that does not mean that we cannot stand up and preach the merits of what we do and what we have to offer.

And that very simply is that we look to serve the client that has the the expectation that they are receiving the very best product that there money has bought them. Product failures are unacceptable and we stand behind everything we sell without reservation.

[TagApl4]

Ha, just when everyone was doubting CMS!

[BishopRuger]

And that should be the end of the story, people wanted facts and now you have them.. Questions anyone??

[Flyin-Ryan]

When I got done reading that all I wanted to say was...Booya!

[Adam]

all i want to know is if they are coming out with headers for the 3.2?

[bdrex28]

Pietro

Is there any way we can get a listing of the items you offer and / or plan to offer?

I understand not publishing prices, but for those of us who are especially new to the CTS, it would definitely be helpful.

Thanks

[pietroraimondi]

The headers for the 3.2 are in development. 3/8'ths inch stainless flange decks have been plasma cut and port matched to the OEM cylinder heads. We are going to utilize the same 3 into one stepped block hugger design with the goal of optomizing as much torque and RWHP in the 2000 to 5000 RPM band.

All of the T309 mandrel bent tubes will terminate into a similiar jet wit collector as is on the 3.6 with an internal vortex. We want to get as much of the burnt exhaust gases to expand and burn off as soon as they hit the cats in order to scavenge the exhaust system as efficiently as possible in order to optomize the next intake stroke.

This one is a bit more complicated than the 3.6 as there are a couple of options that we are considering which may include a cutout for a turbocharger.

Installing a turbocharger or crank driven supercharger is workable on both of the platforms ( 3.2 and 3.6 ).

The only fly in the ointment is that you cannot use the Bosch ECU to handle any of the functions associated with the delivery of fuel, air and spark. The Bosch ECU utilizes a 32 bit CPU whose architecture is closed and therefore will not recognize any periperal devices that are fuel, air, spark dependent.

So how did Lund and how has anyone else (Tim Allen) installed a supercharger or turbo and have it operate?

Simple question deserves a simple answer. They removed the Bosch ECU and installed a PCM with open architecture. Make that modification to a PCM with open architecture and you can tune the piss out of either one of the platforms. The cost to get there is about $3000 for a new PCM with open architecture and you simply toss that Bosch ECU in the garbage can and then the sky is the limit with regard to tuning.

But the bottom line with the BOSCH ECU is that its architecure is closed and your not hacking your way through that binary code; nor will it ever recognize a piggyback ECU. A piggyback ECU on a motor vehicle is nothing more than driver software that is used to have your laptop recognize a peripheral device such as a laser printer.

GM purposely locked the code and ECU architecture so they would not lose revenues to the aftermarket after making such a significant investment in this global engine. They have no intentions of losing one dime to Vortech and will introduce their own roots/eaton type SC at the time they deem to be appropriate and that Bosch ECU is FORT KNOX.

You have two choices if you want it now. The first is to remove the Bosch ECU and install a PCM with open architecture. The second option is to to reassign the fuel, air and spark functions to a separate stand-alone PCM and then you are basically running dual processors.

The dual processor concept actually works easier on the 3.2due to the lack of VVT; whereas with the 3.6 you would literally have to dump the Bosch ECU and install a completely new open architecture PCM and that little toy will cost you about $3000 plus the cost of the supercharger.

So now you see why Lund was charging $9000 for a $5000supercharger. $5k for the SC and $3k for the PCM and a grand for labor. $9000 for 100 horsepower.......No thanks; I'll pass on that one.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by pietroraimondi

The headers for the 3.2 are in development. 3/8'ths inch stainless flange decks have been plasma cut and port matched to the OEM cylinder heads. We are going to utilize the same 3 into one stepped block hugger design with the goal of optomizing as much torque and RWHP in the 2000 to 5000 RPM band.

All of the T309 mandrel bent tubes will terminate into a similiar jet wit collector as is on the 3.6 with an internal vortex. We want to get as much of the burnt exhaust gases to expand and burn off as soon as they hit the cats in order to scavenge the exhaust system as efficiently as possible in order to optomize the next intake stroke.

This one is a bit more complicated than the 3.6 as there are a couple of options that we are considering which may include a cutout for a turbocharger.

Installing a turbocharger or crank driven supercharger is workable on both of the platforms ( 3.2 and 3.6 ).

The only fly in the ointment is that you cannot use the Bosch ECU to handle any of the functions associated with the delivery of fuel, air and spark. The Bosch ECU utilizes a 32 bit CPU whose architecture is closed and therefore will not recognize any periperal devices that are fuel, air, spark dependent.

So how did Lund and how has anyone else (Tim Allen) installed a supercharger or turbo and have it operate?

Simple question deserves a simple answer. They removed the Bosch ECU and installed a PCM with open architecture. Make that modification to a PCM with open architecture and you can tune the piss out of either one of the platforms. The cost to get there is about $3000 for a new PCM with open architecture and you simply toss that Bosch ECU in the garbage can and then the sky is the limit with regard to tuning.

But the bottom line with the BOSCH ECU is that its architecure is closed and your not hacking your way through that binary code; nor will it ever recognize a piggyback ECU. A piggyback ECU on a motor vehicle is nothing more than driver software that is used to have your laptop recognize a peripheral device such as a laser printer.

GM purposely locked the code and ECU architecture so they would not lose revenues to the aftermarket after making such a significant investment in this global engine. They have no intentions of losing one dime to Vortech and will introduce their own roots/eaton type SC at the time they deem to be appropriate and that Bosch ECU is FORT KNOX.

You have two choices if you want it now. The first is to remove the Bosch ECU and install a PCM with open architecture. The second option is to to reassign the fuel, air and spark functions to a separate stand-alone PCM and then you are basically running dual processors.

The dual processor concept actually works easier on the 3.2due to the lack of VVT; whereas with the 3.6 you would literally have to dump the Bosch ECU and install a completely new open architecture PCM and that little toy will cost you about $3000 plus the cost of the supercharger.

So now you see why Lund was charging $9000 for a $5000supercharger. $5k for the SC and $3k for the PCM and a grand for labor. $9000 for 100 horsepower.......No thanks; I'll pass on that one.

cool man! that will give me time to save up for the headers... unless i get a V first. do you think they will be out by next year? yeah 9k is steep as hell for 100 hp, i'll pass too! thanks Pete! you'll let me know when the headers are out for the 3.2!

[RoyalFlush]

god does exist

[TagApl4]

Originally Posted by RoyalFlush

god does exist

Wow, Pete makes a lil comeback announces his headers for the 3.2 he is designing and now he is in the likness of God. This morning u guys were comparing him to David Blane because of all the smoke and mirrors u thought u were seeing. I think I know how this story ends and I'mm not willing to sacrifice Pete!!!

[LUVMY04V]

Originally Posted by pietroraimondi

Fellow Forum Members:

Please allow me the opportunity to clarify what has perpetuated as a complete misstatement of facts based on erroneous assumptions by a large number of Forum Members.

Please Tighten Your Seat Belt and Read Carefully:

LUND CADILLAC DID NOT DESIGN, ENGINEER, DEVELOP OR MANUFACTURE THE 3.6 HEADERS THAT THEY HAD AVAILABLE FOR SALE ON THERE WEBSITE TWO YEARS AGO.

IS EVERYONE CRYSTAL CLEAR ON THAT STATEMENT?

I'LL REPEAT IT ONCE AGAIN IF YOU ARE PERHAPS VISION OR ARE PERHAPS INTELLECTUALLY IMPAIRED:

LUND CADILLAC DID NOT DESIGN, ENGINEER, DEVELOP OR MANUFACTURE THE CADILLAC 3.6 CTS HEADERS THAT THEY HAD FOR SALE AT ONE TIME 2 YEARS AGO.

DOES EVERYONE UNDERSTAND THAT NOW?

I CERTAINLY HOPE SO BECAUSE I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT IS POSSIBLE TO BE MORE ANY MORE CLEAR ON THAT STATEMENT.

NOW FOR SOME REASON; THERE IS A RULE THAT WE WERE NOT MADE AWARE OF. AND THAT RULE IS THAT FORUM MEMBERS ARE ENTITLED TO THE DETAILS OF CORPORATE PRIVATE INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY BY SIMPLY ASKING A QUESTION WITH THE EXPECTATION THAT WE COUGH UP ANSWERS WITH REGARD TO WHO OUR SUPPLIERS, VENDORS AND OUTSOURCE COMPANIES ARE THAT WE DO BUSINESS WITH.

You can certainly ask; but only an idiot as a business owner would share there offensive playbook with the opposing defense. So it should not come as any great surprise when a company won't share with you where they buy there alloy steel from at a more favorable price so that company can price there product less than their competitors can. Hopefully that makes a little bit of sense to someone with more than an 8'th grade education.

BUT MANY HAVE ASKED ABOUT THE HISTORY AND ORIGINS OF THE CTS 3.6 HEADERS AND I WILL SHARE WITH THOSE WHO HAVE SUCH A DYING INTEREST IN KNOWING WHAT THE TRUE FACTS ARE; AND HERE THEY ARE:

Lund Cadillac hired an outside 3'rd party automotive engineering company to design, develop, engineer and test a prototype set of headers for the 2004 Cadillac 3.6 CTS

In fact; Lund Cadillac paid a small kings ransom to have that first prototype set built to a set of specifications that produced a minimum predefined amount of RWHP. This particular automotive engineering company retained all of the intellectual property concerning the design, development, engineering and testing of that first set of headers. All of those costs which added up to a kings ransom was paid for in full by Lund Cadillac.

What Lund Cadillac received in return for their investment was the exclusive rights to buy and distribute those headers. Lund Cadillac had no ownership interest in the actual product itself; just the exclusive and sole right to sell it. And at that time; Lund was offering those 3.6 CTS Headers at $1795 which was almost 3 years ago.
t reservation.

Tell us your designers and suppliers right now!

[ILLMATIK]

I see no reference to the 14" big brake kit.

[BishopRuger]

Originally Posted by ILLMATIK

I see no reference to the 14" big brake kit.

Here's a quote from the initial post Pete put up

"The same is true for our forged alloy steel brake rotors. We import out steel alloy from Japan and then it is sent to a foundry in England where it is forged into raw rotor blanks. Those rotor blanks are then shipped to us here and will sometimes take a month just to clear customs. Once we receive the raw rotor blank; it is then that the rotor set is custom built with regard to cryo treating it, directionally surfacing it, cross drilling it, nickel plating it and creating a finished product.

So contrary to popular belief - we don't just drill holes through somebody else's rotors and we don't operate a foundry; nor does General Motors raise cattle on the back 40 for the leather seats in your CTS.

Our business philosophy is a very simple one. We attempt in every endeavor to build and stand behind the very best performance and appearance products manufactured from the very best materials. And we are able to do so at usually 1/2 the price of our competitors.

We have never had a product fail in the marketplace because we don't deviate from using the very best raw materials and we don't sell anything that we haven't tested, tested and retested.

You have to remember that the United States automotive aftermarket is a completely unregulated industry. When you buy that new car; automobile manufacturers have certain rules and guidelines that are set forth by the DOT and the NHTSB that they must subscribe to.

But when you buy an aftermarket set of brakes rotors; who is watching out for your safety?

We buy our alloy steel from Japan as well as Germany as it is the very best alloy steel that money can buy on the commodity market.

All bolt hardware might look the same when it's new and shiny, but I can assure you that there is a significant safety difference when we build a product and use bolt hardware that has a tensile strength of 10.9 versus grade 5 hardware that is manufactured in southeast Asia. There is a reason why a single bolt costs $2.00 and the grade 5 bolt is only worth 13 cents.

That $2.00 bolt might mean the difference of having and end link stay intact when your making a hard turn under heavy braking versus having it shear off because it's held together with part bin grade 5 hardware.

We are certainly not all things to everyone; nor do we want to be. We also don't believe that there is anything to be gained by knocking your competition or there products. But that does not mean that we cannot stand up and preach the merits of what we do and what we have to offer.

And that very simply is that we look to serve the client that has the the expectation that they are receiving the very best product that there money has bought them. Product failures are unacceptable and we stand behind everything we sell without reservation."

[ILLMATIK]

Oops.

[RoyalFlush]

Originally Posted by TagApl4

Wow, Pete makes a lil comeback announces his headers for the 3.2 he is designing and now he is in the likness of God. This morning u guys were comparing him to David Blane because of all the smoke and mirrors u thought u were seeing. I think I know how this story ends and I'mm not willing to sacrifice Pete!!!

easy there tiger, i for #1 didnt know who pete was and had no idea he was related to CMS until 5 mins ago.#2 i'm fairly new to the forums. #3 am rejoicing over the fact that someone is going to produce headers for the cts . #4 would not like to make this post turn into a business/health debate as was the other one. #5 i got a 3.6!!!!! roar