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Cadillac CTS First Generation Forum - 2003 - 2007 Discussion, CTS Beats All German And All But One Japanese Car in its Class For Initial Quality in Cadillac CTS Coupe, Sport Sedan and Sport Wagon Forums; Perhaps!! I was wondering the same issue. They are a Certified GM dealership. However, I know that does not always ...
  1. #16
    CWK
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    Re: CTS Beats All German And All But One Japanese Car in its Class For Initial Quality

    Perhaps!! I was wondering the same issue. They are a Certified GM dealership. However, I know that does not always matter. They have been on the phone for the last two days with GM TECH and neither have been able to solve the problem. SO, they are going to throw some parts at it tomorrow.

    CHAD



    Initial quality is expected --- long term reliablity is the TRUE TEST of Quality Craftmanship.
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    Re: CTS Beats All German And All But One Japanese Car in its Class For Initial Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by CWK
    Perhaps!! I was wondering the same issue. They are a Certified GM dealership. However, I know that does not always matter. They have been on the phone for the last two days with GM TECH and neither have been able to solve the problem. SO, they are going to throw some parts at it tomorrow.

    CHAD



    Initial quality is expected --- long term reliablity is the TRUE TEST of Quality Craftmanship.
    Does your state have a lemon law? Maybe you can get your money back and get the type of car you really want.
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  3. #18
    CWK
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    Re: CTS Beats All German And All But One Japanese Car in its Class For Initial Quality

    We Live about 150 miles away from the home of the BIG 3. Drive by Fords old estate everytime we visit my wifes parents. Looking forward to the Detroit Auto Show this year too.

    The Car that I want is the CTS. As I said before I used to LOVE it. I still do...if it stays functional. It is just irritating....the hype about quality...but you are in the service department most of the life of the car.

    Just strange......take two of the same vehicles (PERFECT) the next vehicle off the same line, same day..(full of faults).

    I should be getting my car back today. The GM truck was arriving this morning with the two parts they were going to put in it.

    CHAD
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    carjunkie14 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: CTS Beats All German And All But One Japanese Car in its Class For Initial Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by darrelld
    You could have bought one of those great flawless BMW's packed with the most advanced German engineering like this one;

    http://www.bmwlemon.com/BMW740i.htm
    BMWs are great....but i wouldnt say "flawless"
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  5. #20
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    Re: CTS Beats All German And All But One Japanese Car in its Class For Initial Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by CWK
    We Live about 150 miles away from the home of the BIG 3. Drive by Fords old estate everytime we visit my wifes parents. Looking forward to the Detroit Auto Show this year too.

    The Car that I want is the CTS. As I said before I used to LOVE it. I still do...if it stays functional. It is just irritating....the hype about quality...but you are in the service department most of the life of the car.

    Just strange......take two of the same vehicles (PERFECT) the next vehicle off the same line, same day..(full of faults).

    I should be getting my car back today. The GM truck was arriving this morning with the two parts they were going to put in it.

    CHAD
    Good luck and I hope they get everything fixed this time.
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  6. #21
    rueben44 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: CTS Beats All German And All But One Japanese Car in its Class For Initial Quality

    Just be gland you are not one of those BMW owners that had there engines explode! I have owned number Euro makes 3 of which were BMW's. They never left me stranded but they were always in the shop for something. I have had two Caddy's a 98 STS and 03 CTS and I have had no serious issues. My STS was in a few times at first but like I said that was due to the service department I used.

    Try to remember you can't generalize a make by a single experience. JD Power counts all service visits and Cadillac came in only behind Lexus. You have a good make just try to ensure you have a good service department.
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  7. #22
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    Re: CTS Beats All German And All But One Japanese Car in its Class For Initial Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by rueben44
    Very good news and may this serve those who always bash the CTS here. If you go to BMW boards you will see they have bigger issues than a squeaky noise by the ashtray. Much bigger issues.
    Yea, like how in the hell theyre going to avoid speed traps like the plague in their brand new V10 M5.

    What I love about the JDP report is how A. Its INITIAL QUALITY, not three years down the road when MANY of us buy the vehicles not willing to or unable to pay exhoribitantly inflated new stickers, and B. how they manage to squeeze in my old STS at 125, only 15 points higher than the 110 3 Series... RIGGGHT. Tell that to my old Cadillac Service advisor (er..also Buick,GMC and Pontiac Service Advisor too,unlike this car)... That car really was a total lemon, and the interior noise was to the point of being unbearable. BMWs are by far not reliability champs,but then theres alot more that goes into the quality "impression" of a vehicle than just how many times its in the shop. Things like how well the shop can REALLY correct the problems (and not just cover them up ala Intermediate Steering Shaft "lube"), and how high your feeling of satisfaction and perfection is when the vehicle is NOT in the shop.

    I love Cadillacs but you gotta keep a skeptical attitude about these things. The CTS is exciting,but it has to be around just a lil bit longer before im going to believe that its one spot behind the LEXUS ES300, which is by far the king of quality because well... its basically a hopped up Toyota Camry.

    Ahh yep that was a good laugh. I think I need to retreat to the absolute silence of my vehicles cabin for a moment to calm down.

    EDIT:One thing I have to interject here. I dont think im the only one thats a little disconcerted that my moms 2000 Hyundai Elantra, which is abused and has been smacked about three times, has only been in the shop about twice in its entire life....hmm scary.
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    typeaman is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Lightbulb Re: CTS Beats All German And All But One Japanese Car in its Class For Initial Quality

    Although I LOVE my CTS, I am also one of those that have had problems. I really think we should start a thread that asks for owner problems so we can use the info when talking to the dealer. You guys may not believe it but I had to have a new engine put in at 4000 miles. The dealer said that a piston was not "getting oil" or something. When I drove it into the service bay several of the techs heard me coming and came out to see what all the noise was! From reading a bunch of forums, I think I am the only lucky person in the nation that had this problem, but would like to know of others. I also have or had the following problems:
    -A water leak in the license surround. I haven't taken it in yet for this.
    - Intermittent static on the AM radio when I put on the break. (the dealer says that there is no problem.)
    - All of the silver paint started to flake off one of the wheel covers. ( Cover replaced)
    - My analog clock is 6 minutes off from the digital on the radio read out. (The dealer said there was no need for a fix because it was within established specs.)

    I do however love the DTS loner car!
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  9. #24
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    Re: CTS Beats All German And All But One Japanese Car in its Class For Initial Quality

    I'll put it like this and leave it alone Cadillacís were until recently driven by mostly older generations. But once over 3 years old young drivers buy them for there luxury, dependability and cheapness to repair. The older or younger buyers would not be so loyal to a brand that makes cars that stop running all the time nor has a host of issues. Cadillac has ranked higher on that list for years and I as some one who sells cars and has a brother that is a dealer can say that BMW and other Euro makes are head aches!

    I am not speaking from my one car purchase as if I really know something I am speaking from dealing with a high volume of cars of all makes. Tell people who are still driving Cadillacís that are 20 years old that they are crappy. BMW and Benz's of those years will be eating at your pockets in repair bills.

    Cadillac is second only to Lexus in initial quality and second to no other luxury make in dependability and you can believe that. It would be a good lesson in life to realize that views that are acquired from a limited exposure to anything are not necessarily correct. Let people tell it everyone that has 45K to spend would prefer a Benz BMW or Lexus but Cadillac is the sales leader in the 40K plus area for over 20 years. There is a reason for that and it isnít because they give electrical nightmares like Euro cars.
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  10. #25
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    Re: CTS Beats All German And All But One Japanese Car in its Class For Initial Quality

    I havent had a limited exposure to anything, and this is NOT CTS or CADILLAC BASHING! Its a consumer simply demanding more from the vehicles I WANT to own!

    I have owned eight cars in the past few years and I deal with several people in the car industry myself locally. Do you know which TWO vehicles were the biggest nightmares? The Cadillac and the 96 Lincoln,Cadillac for overall quality, and Lincoln for its insistance on make it to break it technologies like the Airbag Ride Control system which absolutely defines crap. Compare that Lincoln or a similar Cadillac to a 96 LS400 or Q45 and youll quickly see that "initial quality" goes down the drain. I personally know of one mechanic in town who has switched his entire business, [I]a full time job[/], to repairing and replacing Cadillac gauge clusters and associated electronics (and yet the umbrella of "Euro Cars" gets the electrical gremlins tag right).

    Another simple problem is resale. Put a 96 LS400 (possibly still worth close to 10k or more) up to either of the other two brands and I can quickly show you a 7000.00 difference. I love Cadillacs, but I also dont have the wool pulled over my eyes by consumer publications, but rather experience with people who own the vehicles and have to deal with them and their problems every day. And lets reset that market to 15 years, after the Cadillac wreath and crest had long since lost its gleam from the 60s and 70s and electronics began to become the name of the game in vehicles (HT4100 comes to mind as a real quality leader....). I can show you more than a couple of vehicles that are still running great from the other side of the pond from the same era.

    Cadillac (and Lincoln for that matter) has along way to go before OVERALL quality will improve to where I buy my next one. Cadillac better not simply rely on being the sales leader for now, because that demographic that continued buying them (one of which is typically hard to deter from their set ways no matter how much you can prove them otherwise) is slowly DYING AWAY.

    The CTS, and the Lincoln LS (which I think has alot of awesome technological advancements like heated and cooled seating and THX) are a good start for both companies in attracting a younger market with more varying tastes (25 - 55), but quality over the longterm is yet to be seen and I am hoping, man am I hoping ESPECIALLY for the new STS and others, that it will come out good.
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    Re: CTS Beats All German And All But One Japanese Car in its Class For Initial Quality

    Hummm you are going to have to do a little reading because the average age of the current Cadillac buyer is dropping very fast. Also most Benz owners are not spring chickens anyway. I am glad to see you have had 8 cars in 3 years because in the last three years I have come in contact with cars in the 3 digits. One Cadillac one Lincoln and now you know everything about the car company. You have a small frame of reference and you are not informed. My clue to you would be to get informed and read factual data and cut the uniformed comments.

    Cadillac's past low resale had to do with fleet sales not the quality of product. Once again you show what you know......
    Have seen the rate the CTS's value holds? I am sure you haven't but I will clue you in it is holding very well and recently Cadillac was recognized for have one of the hugest jumps residual value.
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  12. #27
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    Re: CTS Beats All German And All But One Japanese Car in its Class For Initial Quality

    So you have come in contact with cars in the 3 digits and this makes YOU informed? I come in contact with 14000 vehicles everyday on the street, that certainly doesnt make me informed. Youve read a few articles or tests and you are THE Cadillac Authority.
    FYI I am informed and the information I have shows the average of the cadillac buyer has dropped from about 63 to 60, that may be rapid but it aint 25. Also, I am not basing my data on two vehicles,or based on some raw numbers I found somewhere, but rather MY experience with those two vehicles coupled with the experiences of several owners and the dealers that WONT take them because they are a LOSS to keep on their lots,and a nuisance to repair. Get in touch with the REAL world, not what youre reading and then reposting here,and not what your CTS biased opinion forces you to post. Just look around at some of your fellow CTS owners, many of them are happy and rightfully so, but many of them continue to face the same unacceptable reliability and quality problems that have plagued the company for years. Perhaps if you pay more attention to whats right in front of you (i.e. the forum that you seem to be so proud to post on) and the real world people that are having the issues, you will come to see the automotive light that eludes you. I also have data that shows Cadillacs have one of the highest lemonized vehicle rates, my STS was no exception. Thats right sir,LEMON. Cadillac is not a car company, it is part of a megalo conglomerate which until it will allow Cadillac to completely think and act for itself,or to the best ability possible, rather than re-sourcing parts from the Chevrolet parts-bin will never be the standard of the world it wants to be. My objective opinion lies in the fact that I want to see GM quit playing games with this division and turn it into what I expect from a vehicle, not what you settle for in one. Damn Cadillac for forcing me into this position and into the position of having to drive a car now that is not even in the same class as the STS I had before! I loved my STS and THATS the car I wanted, now im driving something foreign thats half the size, and im outraged because this is not the car I wanted, but im growing to love it. The Cadillac was one of the few vehicles I could afford in the class and feature set that I liked, now I cant because quality problems drove me out of it, and my 330 was the immediate next-best vehicle available. This is the same type of problem that I currently have with Dieter Zieschs utter RAPE of the Jeep division of Chrysler, another vehicle whose REAL history I am very fond of and can not stand to see turned into another people mover division (by MERCEDES no less). And speaking of Mercedes, data was just release which shows which brands have the highest owner loyalty. Cadillac was not on that list, Mercedes was number 2. But you know what, BMW wasnt on the list either, because BMW has a ways to go itself before it can overcome some of its own gremlins,some of them ARE downright pieces of shit. The difference is BMW has always strived for perfection, rather than mediocrity and the bottom line forced upon it by a parent company more concerned with union happiness and numbers of cars sold this year. Yes, im glad were all subject to our opinions, but when you are so blinded by your loyalty to what you drive that you attack anyone who doesnt see it your way or has a differing opinion based on real world scenarios and not some textbook data it gets a bit rediculous. I see it in many of your posts but I dont say a thing (i.e. the STS sideskirts? is there a problem with a person wanting to personalize their vehicle in such a way it doesnt live up to YOUR expectation of what a cadillac should be?). Be happy with your CTS if its a great car, but dont expect everyone who doesnt think so to see it your way. Thats all I have to say and I wont be a part of any vehicle bickering because I am not trying to fault anyone, just my beliefs of where my hard earned dollar needs to go.
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    Re: CTS Beats All German And All But One Japanese Car in its Class For Initial Quality

    Well Troll I see you choose to expose yourself as anti-Cadillac and GM yet youíre on this board supposedly giving balanced advice.When I say I come in contact with what I meant was I have sold over 50 cars in the last 3years that I owned and I have keep 5 cars that I eventually sold also. I often drive my brotherís cars on his lot also that account for about 250 over the last 3 years.

    Nice to see your not to big on reading but it is a good thing to do and I think you should try it. What you should know is that before my two Cadillac I would not personally keep (own) and car that was not a Euro make because I really liked them. What I found is that they will just eat through your pockets in repair bills and will not stop with having issues. Like your little exploding BMW's. Do you know what Benz's average buyer age is? It is not far from Cadillac it is around the low 50's high Forties. And it would be! With them selling cars that are not luxury but are really hatch backs. And don't talk about sharing parts because Benz's and BMW both make low end cars in Europe and are taxis and dump trucks over there. Hell Benz is also Chrysler over here so what is up with that(Crossfire).Let me tell you what reading can do it can help you get your info right. The average Cadillac buyers age is 54 from 59 not 60 so read and learn.


    This is something everyone here needs to know. When you own a modern Cadillac or any other high end car that is at least a 92 you will find that it has more electronics than past cars. Realize that most repair center are trying to get you and they lie all the time about what is wrong with your car. They do thing to your car to try to get you to come back. This happens even at some dealers. If you know nothing about cars in detail they can sell you anything. I see this all the time so first and foremost get a good tech that you can trust. My grand mother and a lot of people I know have had a life of Cadillac and I know that they are good dependable cars. You do not get loyal to a brand that leaves you on the road side.

    Stop being a BMW troll Cadillac is back and hitting your little Nazi makes hard so get over it.
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    Re: CTS Beats All German And All But One Japanese Car in its Class For Initial Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by rueben44
    This is something everyone here needs to know. When you own a modern Cadillac or any other high end car that is at least a 92 you will find that it has more electronics than past cars...They do thing to your car to try to get you to come back.
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    Re: CTS Beats All German And All But One Japanese Car in its Class For Initial Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by Playdrv4me
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