First "Oh ****" Moment with the RWD

kanniballl · #1 (**permalink**) 01-10-06, 11:35 AM

LOL,

I'm on like week 3 of my CTS. Until now I've been babying it while driving; taking it easy on the gas, taking the turns careful, etc. This is because of all of my friends/family saying "you need to get used to driving a RWD car." I respond saying I learned to drive on a 1980 Oldmobile with RWD.

Anyway, making a left onto a busy street was a pain today so I gave it more gas than I've been doing (but I've given my old 1991 FWD Oldsmobile).

Long story short, before I realized what was going on I started Fishtailing. The traction control kicked in and all was well, though I was kind of like "Oh ****."

I was expecting something like that to happen in rain or snow, not bone-dry roads. That's the part that caught me by surprise (otherwise I would have made the appropriate corrections when it occured). Instead I just tried to correct via the wheel (I'm a dummy, I know). No harm done as far as I can tell as it wasn't a wild fishtail, but the driver behind me must have thought "What an ***hole!"

I guess I do need more practice on the RWD than I thought.

RobertCTS · #2 (**permalink**) 01-10-06, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanniballl

LOL,

I'm on like week 3 of my CTS. Until now I've been babying it while driving; taking it easy on the gas, taking the turns careful, etc. This is because of all of my friends/family saying "you need to get used to driving a RWD car." I respond saying I learned to drive on a 1980 Oldmobile with RWD.

Anyway, making a left onto a busy street was a pain today so I gave it more gas than I've been doing (but I've given my old 1991 FWD Oldsmobile).

Long story short, before I realized what was going on I started Fishtailing. The traction control kicked in and all was well, though I was kind of like "Oh ****."

I was expecting something like that to happen in rain or snow, not bone-dry roads. I guess I do need more practice on the RWD than I thought.

RWD handling is superior to FWD. You never want to steering with your power wheels as you loose traction with the wheels that you're trying to steer with. Most race cars are RWD the rest are AWD. All of NASCAR is RWD.

Same in the snow when your cornering and trying to apply steering while applying the gas. The car vectors off in a different direction.

If you started fish tailing and TC came on. I'm surprised your stabiltrak didn't also come on to straighten your car. You're gonna love your CTS in the snow! You also have the snow mode so you take off in third gear. I love this car!

kanniballl · #3 (**permalink**) 01-10-06, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertCTS

RWD handling is superior to FWD. You never want to steering with your power wheels as you loose traction with the wheels that you're trying to steer

I realize that, and have used portions of that in my defense when defending it to my friends/family.

I guess I just gotta take it easy on stuff like that.

Caddy Man · #4 (**permalink**) 01-10-06, 12:56 PM

A lot of my freinds are FWD advocates saying oh its better in snow blah blah. My view is, hey id rather have a little less traction in winter, than a car that I didnt enjoy driving all year round. They say its easier to fishtail in my car, so then I demonstrate stablitrack. You CANNOT fishtail a stabilitrack equipped car. It just wont let you. Saved my ass a couple times too.

RobertCTS · #5 (**permalink**) 01-10-06, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caddy Man

You CANNOT fishtail a stabilitrack equipped car. It just wont let you. Saved my ass a couple times too.

Yep specially on ice. It saved my bacon!! I had a FWD Eldorado. It was a real dog in snow.

GrafAnton · #6 (**permalink**) 01-10-06, 01:06 PM

I had a similiar experience with my CTS:
While taking one of my favorite freeway on-ramps on a drizzily night I applied a good bit more power than necessary...trying to explore the limits for the first time. As I eased on more and more power, the rear started to drift just a little bit...it was nothing if not exilerating and I kept waiting for the traction control to come on. The ramp was sloped slightly downhill until it reached freeway level, as I came onto the flat, she broke loose in a BIG way and I found myself spinning helplessly across three lanes of interstate traffic. Never touched a thing. It stalled just before I reached the left hand shoulder and that was the scariest part...sitting dead stick in the fast lane.

So...what did I learn from this? The CTS has major power, traction control does allow some slip and is not fool proof and that although the car is very well balanced and great handling once you reach a certain angle of deflection from your intended course, you can't catch it.

yomommas · #7 (**permalink**) 01-10-06, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caddy Man

A lot of my freinds are FWD advocates saying oh its better in snow blah blah. My view is, hey id rather have a little less traction in winter, than a car that I didnt enjoy driving all year round. They say its easier to fishtail in my car, so then I demonstrate stablitrack. You CANNOT fishtail a stabilitrack equipped car. It just wont let you. Saved my ass a couple times too.

personally, i like to fish-tail a corner every now and then. if you know how to control it, it's a fun way to make your passenger poop himself. i'm guessing that i don't have stabilitrack, thankfully i live in a place that rarely snows.

TorontoWorker · #8 (**permalink**) 01-10-06, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caddy Man

A lot of my freinds are FWD advocates saying oh its better in snow blah blah. My view is, hey id rather have a little less traction in winter, than a car that I didnt enjoy driving all year round. They say its easier to fishtail in my car, so then I demonstrate stablitrack. You CANNOT fishtail a stabilitrack equipped car. It just wont let you. Saved my ass a couple times too.

Sure you can. If you try hard enough - which I did recently during lunch at our clubs iceracing event in Minden. If it's designed by humans - it can be f**ked up by humans!

Never depend on high tech to save your butt. Use the PC above your shoulders. However: It is nice when it works and it works well in "normal" driving. It's when people think their Gilles Villeneuve out on a Ski Doo that bad things happen...

PAW 47 · #9 (**permalink**) 01-10-06, 05:21 PM

You can fishtail a stabiltrack car.. I've done it too!

Brn1 · #10 (**permalink**) 01-10-06, 05:44 PM

[quote=RobertCTS]. All of NASCAR is RWD.

Holy @#$% Batman! Is that why I like driving this car so much? Oops I mean D. Vaderman.

RobertCTS · #11 (**permalink**) 01-10-06, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAW 47

You can fishtail a stabiltrack car.. I've done it too!

I think your car may be broke PAW. IF tC an STS are enabled I can not fish tail at all. The engine throttles back and the brakes pulse..as they should. Try a donut and the STS kicks in and throttles the engine accordingly and brakes pulse where needed..as it was designed to do. If you want to play you can disable these two functios. But PAW something ain't working right on your car.

Adam · #12 (**permalink**) 01-10-06, 07:16 PM

this is gonna sound stupid but Robert, how do i disable the stability control? i have got mine to fishtail with tc off but then the stabili trac kicks in and does its thing.

how do you need "practice" on a rwd? i have only had two fwd cars but the rest have been rwd, maybe i am just used to it. i didnt like the feel of either of my fwds, i know they are supposedly better in snow but i would take rwd over fwd anyday. i dont think ill ever own another fwd car (unless its a 70s model Eldo, or a new Deville... uh i mean DTS).

TorontoWorker · #13 (**permalink**) 01-10-06, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertCTS

I think your car may be broke PAW. IF tC an STS are enabled I can not fish tail at all. The engine throttles back and the brakes pulse..as they should. Try a donut and the STS kicks in and throttles the engine accordingly and brakes pulse where needed..as it was designed to do. If you want to play you can disable these two functios. But PAW something ain't working right on your car.

It has everything to do with the slip angle and the amount of traction. Your tires only have so much grip and depending on the steering imputs you can spin any car car if your movements are too wild. STS depends on the driver not doing anything crazy - just letting the program work. On dry roads it is *almost* impossible to spin. Snow or water - is another thing.

I saw a CTS-V off in the ditch last weekend up north and the car went in sideways. S**t happens. Don't tell people it is imposible because some people will think this is true and will not apply common sense when driving in bad weather.

One of the best sts/tc systems in the world is on the Porsche Cayenne and one of the guys in our club who is a member of the Upper Canada Region of PCA spun his just to see if he could. Now mind you he was turning away from the skid but he almost hit the snowbank after doing more then a 180...

But yes, if you drive within reason, the CTS is a great car along with the STS/TC package. It also depends on the tires and the wear you have on them. Before I changed from the GS/A's to the X-Ice's the TC was coming on every 2 min in the snow. Once I changed over - maybe once the whole day in snow.

skepticman · #14 (**permalink**) 01-10-06, 08:03 PM

Quote from the Owner Manual on page 4-9:

"You can turn the system off by pressing the TC (traction control) button located in the glove box. If you press the TC button once, the traction control system will turn off and the traction control system warning light will come on. Press the TC button again to turn the system back on. If you press and hold the TC button for five seconds, the Stabilitrak® system will turn off. Press the TC button again to turn Stabilitrak® back on. For more information, see Stabilitrak® System on page 4-11."

Caddy Man · #15 (**permalink**) 01-10-06, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 93fleetwoodlowlow

this is gonna sound stupid but Robert, how do i disable the stability control? i have got mine to fishtail with tc off but then the stabili trac kicks in and does its thing.

how do you need "practice" on a rwd? i have only had two fwd cars but the rest have been rwd, maybe i am just used to it. i didnt like the feel of either of my fwds, i know they are supposedly better in snow but i would take rwd over fwd anyday. i dont think ill ever own another fwd car (unless its a 70s model Eldo, or a new Deville... uh i mean DTS).

Make sure traction and everything is on. Now open your glovebox and locate the traction control button inside it. Press it and HOLD for about 5 seconds. You will see a message on your DIC screen that says Stability System Off. Traction Control turns of automatically when you do this. Hit the button to turn everything back on.