3.6 dyno tune?
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Cadillac CTS First Generation Forum - 2003 - 2007 Discussion, 3.6 dyno tune? in Cadillac CTS Coupe, Sport Sedan and Sport Wagon Forums; I searched the forum and found nothing. Has anyone on here had this done? I'm reading up on dyno tunes ...
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    HawkzillaCTS is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    3.6 dyno tune?

    I searched the forum and found nothing. Has anyone on here had this done?

    I'm reading up on dyno tunes and seeing that on average they get around a 9% hp gain. On this car that would be around 20 hp, so for around $150 that seems like a bargain, assuming the tune lasts.

    Any info would be much appreciated!

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    dkozloski's Avatar
    dkozloski is online now Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: 3.6 dyno tune?

    Stroker McGurk says you can't feel less than 10% in the seat of your pants.
    Don't mess with Binky Bear!


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    HawkzillaCTS is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 3.6 dyno tune?

    Quote Originally Posted by dkozloski View Post
    Stroker McGurk says you can't feel less than 10% in the seat of your pants.
    lol Yeah but 9% stacked adds up eventually! I'm hoping that since my ride is 8 years old and has 90K miles that a dyno tune might get me closer to 15%. I won't know what my CTS is actually putting out until I get her on a dyno, so for now I'm curious as to anyone that has done a dyno tune on their CTS.

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    ztollon's Avatar
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    Do you have a link or anything for these dyno tunes?

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    HawkzillaCTS is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 3.6 dyno tune?

    http://www.thedynoshop.com/pages/whatisDT.htm

    Just google "dyno tuning" and there is a ton of info. So far what I have read seems to make sense. Your engine was tuned before it was put in your car, however you have to consider that car companies tune it a certain way for a reason. I looked up this 3.6 LY7 engine and the cars it comes in range from 211 hp in the Holden Rodeo, to to 240 in the Buick LaCrosse, to 255 hp in the CTS, to 275 in the GMC Arcadia, Saturn Outlook and Buick Enclave. This is a pretty wide range and makes me think there is hp to find in our 3.6, however I'm not clear if the computer will allow it... which I'm hoping someone will be able to tell me through this thread.

    Also, I'm guessing that 8 years and 90k miles later, the tuning has likely dropped off some so I'm hoping it could make a bigger difference in my case. We have one dyno guy in my city but there are a few more within 100 miles, so I plan on calling them all today and finding out what the census is. My concern is they all want paid so I hope at least one of them would be honest with me if our CTS won't benefit from dyno tuning.

    ----------

    Go figure, the very first pic on a local dyno tuner shop I looked up was this... I've got V-envy


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    Tlorenzen is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Im fairly certain you will need to use the hp tuners software while on a dyno to do it. AFAIK they're the only ones that support our bosch ecu. And you can definitely get a gain out of it. Especially if you have supporting mods. I would advise getting all of the common mods before you do a tune. It will be better value for your money that way.

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    AAIIIC's Avatar
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    Re: 3.6 dyno tune?

    Quote Originally Posted by HawkzillaCTS View Post
    I searched the forum and found nothing. Has anyone on here had this done?

    I'm reading up on dyno tunes and seeing that on average they get around a 9% hp gain.
    I'm confused. If you've searched the forum and haven't found anybody who has done it, how did you determine a 9% gain is the average? If you're basing that off what you've seen for other vehicles, you can't draw that sort of conclusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by HawkzillaCTS View Post
    ... so for around $150 that seems like a bargain...
    You're not going to get a dyno tune for $150. You may get a dyno baseline (just a few pulls with your engine and ECM exactly as it is now) for that but an actual tune will be more like $500+. Note that the link you posted mentions 6-7 hours of labor involved - you're not getting that for $150, unless the shop has a really low opinion of itself and doesn't want to stay in business for very long. And that $500+ in labor doesn't account for the fact that the dyno tuner needs to pay HP Tuners for a license to "unlock" the ability to tune your ECM, since it's unlikely they've already purchased a license for your type of vehicle.

    Quote Originally Posted by HawkzillaCTS View Post
    ... assuming the tune lasts.
    How would it not last? Are the 1s and 0s going to leak out of the ECM?

    Quote Originally Posted by HawkzillaCTS View Post
    I'm hoping that since my ride is 8 years old and has 90K miles that a dyno tune might get me closer to 15%.
    Quote Originally Posted by HawkzillaCTS View Post
    Also, I'm guessing that 8 years and 90k miles later, the tuning has likely dropped off some so I'm hoping it could make a bigger difference in my case.
    Based on these comments, I don't think you understand how this all works. Unless someone has previously paid a shop to reflash the ECM in your car, the tuning hasn't dropped off or degraded in any way. The factory tune is still on your ECM, and the ECM works just as well today as it did when your car rolled off the assembly line. If the engine is making less power now than it was back then, that's due to mechanical degradation over the years - valve seat and guide wear, rings not sealing as tight, etc etc. Getting a dyno tune isn't going to change any of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by HawkzillaCTS View Post
    I won't know what my CTS is actually putting out until I get her on a dyno...
    That's definitely true.

    Quote Originally Posted by HawkzillaCTS View Post
    Just google "dyno tuning" and there is a ton of info. So far what I have read seems to make sense. Your engine was tuned before it was put in your car, however you have to consider that car companies tune it a certain way for a reason.
    ztollon understands all that. I'm guessing he's asking where you're getting your 9% number from and/or where you think you're going to get a dyno tune for $150.

    Quote Originally Posted by HawkzillaCTS View Post
    I looked up this 3.6 LY7 engine and the cars it comes in range from 211 hp in the Holden Rodeo, to to 240 in the Buick LaCrosse, to 255 hp in the CTS, to 275 in the GMC Arcadia, Saturn Outlook and Buick Enclave. This is a pretty wide range and makes me think there is hp to find in our 3.6...
    The different power outputs are due more to mechanical differences than to any change in the tune. For instance, the SUV version of the engine has a different intake manifold, improved heads, and different exhaust cams, as mentioned in this old thread. Different exhaust configurations, different fuel requirements (87 octane vs premium), etc will play into those ratings.

    Quote Originally Posted by HawkzillaCTS View Post
    We have one dyno guy in my city but there are a few more within 100 miles, so I plan on calling them all today and finding out what the c[ons]ensus is. My concern is they all want [to get] paid so I hope at least one of them would be honest with me if our CTS won't benefit from dyno tuning.
    If they're honest, they'll tell you they don't know what you could expect from a dyno tune, because it's highly unlikely they've ever spent time tuning a CTS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tlorenzen View Post
    Im fairly certain you will need to use the hp tuners software while on a dyno to do it. AFAIK they're the only ones that support our bosch ecu. And you can definitely get a gain out of it. Especially if you have supporting mods. I would advise getting all of the common mods before you do a tune. It will be better value for your money that way.
    All true.

    As Tlorenzen said, you can definitely get a gain from a dyno tune. As your own research found, the OEMs tune engines conservatively, so there is almost always power left on the table that a tuner can unleash by changing the timing and fueling parameters. Add in that you have an engine with variable cam timing and there's even more stuff that a tuner can work with. But, that also means it's that much more important that you find a tuner that truly knows what they're doing, as there is the possibility that they could make performance worse and even damage something if they get the variable cam timing wrong.

    Even if the peak numbers don't change a whole lot with a tune, you may find that the driveability of the car improves noticeably because the tune is able to improve low end torque and change the throttle response of the drive-by-wire throttle. The big question is how much of a change will there be, and will it be worth the money invested? You probably won't find an answer to the first part of the question unless you actually do it, and the only person that can answer the second part of the question is you.
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  9. #8
    HawkzillaCTS is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 3.6 dyno tune?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tlorenzen View Post
    Im fairly certain you will need to use the hp tuners software while on a dyno to do it. AFAIK they're the only ones that support our bosch ecu. And you can definitely get a gain out of it. Especially if you have supporting mods. I would advise getting all of the common mods before you do a tune. It will be better value for your money that way.
    Thanks for the mature, non-sarcastic feedback... I think that is what I'll do!

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    AAIIIC's Avatar
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    Re: 3.6 dyno tune?

    My apologies for being immature by trying to correct the misconceptions in your posts about how ECMs and tunes work and how much they cost. And I apologize for the one sarcastic sentence, with the little winking smiley after it.

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    HawkzillaCTS is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 3.6 dyno tune?

    Quote Originally Posted by AAIIIC View Post
    My apologies for being immature by trying to correct the misconceptions in your posts about how ECMs and tunes work and how much they cost. And I apologize for the one sarcastic sentence, with the little winking smiley after it.
    I was going to take the high road and simply ignore your post, but since you seem to insist on getting a response from me, I'll be your Huckleberry...

    I thought it was quite clear that I have no conceptions as to how ECMs and tunes work, which is why i was asking questions in the first place.

    It's been my experience that when forums are concerned, the only people that break down a complete post and respond one line at a time are simply trying to put the OP in there place and belittle them. In other words, I get it, in your expert opinion I am wrong, ignorant or full of "misconceptions". That's your right to feel that way, which is why I let it go.

    Now to respond to your lengthy initial post... I am an intelligent, educated 41 year old man and I am able to make an intelligent educated guess based on research. No, I could not find a 3.6 CTS with dyno results (as I stated on my OP). However, when researching I found cars with similar engines getting anywhere from 5% to 15% hp gains. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at the variety of hp outputs that come from the LY7 and make a EDUCATED GUESS that most vehicles can get around a 9% gain. I never claimed that to be fact or otherwise, so that would have been an assumption on your part.

    As for you telling me what another poster was thinking, that's awfully presumptuous. If I misread him/her, then they can post back and correct me. The arrogance of assuming you know what everyone is thinking and then feeling the need to take it a step further and tell someone else, well lets just say I'm not a big fan of that.

    For the "why wouldn't the tune stay?", well, if the ECU self adjusts or my battery dies and it resets or I have it worked on and it's reflashed, etc, I have no idea if what they did would be undone. I am not a mechanic nor have I ever claimed to be, which is why I started this post. I thought that was pretty clear, but I apologize if I came of as an expert at ECMs or dyno tuning.

    Lastly, you are a moderator, and in my experience a moderator that posts in the manor that you did is something I don;t want any part of, so don't take it personally when in the future I choose not to respond. I have enough stress in my life and I come here to enjoy convos with other CTS owners and get their kind advice/input. Hopefully you can respect that.

    Thanks

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    Tlorenzen is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 3.6 dyno tune?

    Beer 30 and popcorn? Hawkz, don't take it personally. AAIIIC just likes to analyze things to their fullest potential. Some say he has ocd, others, an engineer. (close guess? )

    Not to thread jack, but hows the car comin tollon?


    Quote Originally Posted by ztollon View Post
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    ztollon's Avatar
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    The manifold is still being bitter w a few hard to get to vacuum leaks. And if I could figure out if our injectors are low or high impedance. I would be close to having the meth kit hooked in. None of the dealerships I've called know the answer to the question. I do know the ctsv has high impedance but also way different and bigger than ours. But mark my words that sob manifold will be on and running 100% by this time tomorrow night. Maybe AAIIIC can shed some light on my injector trouble.
    Tlorenzen likes this.

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    concorso is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: 3.6 dyno tune?

    Quote Originally Posted by HawkzillaCTS View Post
    I was going to take the high road and simply ignore your post, but since you seem to insist on getting a response from me, I'll be your Huckleberry...

    I thought it was quite clear that I have no conceptions as to how ECMs and tunes work, which is why i was asking questions in the first place.

    It's been my experience that when forums are concerned, the only people that break down a complete post and respond one line at a time are simply trying to put the OP in there place and belittle them. In other words, I get it, in your expert opinion I am wrong, ignorant or full of "misconceptions". That's your right to feel that way, which is why I let it go.

    Now to respond to your lengthy initial post... I am an intelligent, educated 41 year old man and I am able to make an intelligent educated guess based on research. No, I could not find a 3.6 CTS with dyno results (as I stated on my OP). However, when researching I found cars with similar engines getting anywhere from 5% to 15% hp gains. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at the variety of hp outputs that come from the LY7 and make a EDUCATED GUESS that most vehicles can get around a 9% gain. I never claimed that to be fact or otherwise, so that would have been an assumption on your part.

    As for you telling me what another poster was thinking, that's awfully presumptuous. If I misread him/her, then they can post back and correct me. The arrogance of assuming you know what everyone is thinking and then feeling the need to take it a step further and tell someone else, well lets just say I'm not a big fan of that.

    For the "why wouldn't the tune stay?", well, if the ECU self adjusts or my battery dies and it resets or I have it worked on and it's reflashed, etc, I have no idea if what they did would be undone. I am not a mechanic nor have I ever claimed to be, which is why I started this post. I thought that was pretty clear, but I apologize if I came of as an expert at ECMs or dyno tuning.

    Lastly, you are a moderator, and in my experience a moderator that posts in the manor that you did is something I don;t want any part of, so don't take it personally when in the future I choose not to respond. I have enough stress in my life and I come here to enjoy convos with other CTS owners and get their kind advice/input. Hopefully you can respect that.

    Thanks
    I suggest getting away from the kids or the overbearing boss for a little while, asap. Id also suggest more bran in your diet. In the meantime, reread AAIICs post until you realize it was much less snarky then you inferred it was. You talk of assumptions like you didnt make any yourself. He didnt tell you what ZTollon said...evidenced by his used of the word 'guessing', not unlike your use of the phrase 'EDUCATED GUESS'. Its also certainly not condescending to break a post or multiple posts down point by point. I will generally reply to lengthy/multiple posts by breaking points down individually as well. For some of us, its simply how we approach a discussion. AAIIC was sarcastic with one comment but straightforward and accurate and informative with the rest. If you continue to choose to ignore the rest because your feelings were hurt, that is your loss.

    Here is snark.

    Quote Originally Posted by AAIIC
    My apologies for being immature by trying to correct the misconceptions in your posts about how ECMs and tunes work and how much they cost. And I apologize for the one sarcastic sentence, with the little winking smiley after it.
    Here is phull of helpss.

    Quote Originally Posted by AAIIC
    As Tlorenzen said, you can definitely get a gain from a dyno tune. As your own research found, the OEMs tune engines conservatively, so there is almost always power left on the table that a tuner can unleash by changing the timing and fueling parameters. Add in that you have an engine with variable cam timing and there's even more stuff that a tuner can work with. But, that also means it's that much more important that you find a tuner that truly knows what they're doing, as there is the possibility that they could make performance worse and even damage something if they get the variable cam timing wrong.

    Even if the peak numbers don't change a whole lot with a tune, you may find that the driveability of the car improves noticeably because the tune is able to improve low end torque and change the throttle response of the drive-by-wire throttle. The big question is how much of a change will there be, and will it be worth the money invested? You probably won't find an answer to the first part of the question unless you actually do it, and the only person that can answer the second part of the question is you.

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    Tlorenzen is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 3.6 dyno tune?

    This is on a Holden VZ but check out page 4. Says at 20Deg C its 11-14ohm. Also, couldn't you just use a multimeter to measure it? Hope this helps a little.

    http://www.tech-online.com.au/TechOn...27efc/3192.pdf



    Quote Originally Posted by ztollon View Post
    The manifold is still being bitter w a few hard to get to vacuum leaks. And if I could figure out if our injectors are low or high impedance. I would be close to having the meth kit hooked in. None of the dealerships I've called know the answer to the question. I do know the ctsv has high impedance but also way different and bigger than ours. But mark my words that sob manifold will be on and running 100% by this time tomorrow night. Maybe AAIIIC can shed some light on my injector trouble.

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