Vibration issues, 2005 CTS 3.6 6 speed manual
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Cadillac CTS First Generation Forum - 2003 - 2007 Discussion, Vibration issues, 2005 CTS 3.6 6 speed manual in Cadillac CTS Coupe, Sport Sedan and Sport Wagon Forums; Hello.. this is my second post on this forum.. I am a new Cadillac owner, 1st caddie out of 19 ...
  1. #1
    spdweb.net is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 2005 CTS 3.6S, 6 speed manual, Black/Black/Black
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    Vibration issues, 2005 CTS 3.6 6 speed manual

    Hello.. this is my second post on this forum.. I am a new Cadillac owner, 1st caddie out of 19 vehicles. Purchased this car used of course with 103k miles.

    Two distinct vibration and noise issues...
    Clunk in rear.. (will be solved with new dif. bushings)

    Vibration #1
    Vibration at warm idle.. clutch engaged or not.. 99% sure this is not an engine problem.. but something between the flywheel and the transmission. Also a moderate noise from that area at warm idle.. clicking, clanking.. sounds like a rock in a tin can.

    Can feel the vibration with the clutch engaged while revving the engine.. almost like something is out of balance.

    The noise gets slightly lighter with the clutch disengaged at idle but then the input shaft chimes in with a whirring sound.

    My thoughts are the pilot bearing is toast.. and its taking the input shaft bearing with it that would account for the noise. But the vibration? This vibration is on the input side of the transmission.
    Does this model have a duel mass flywheel?

    Vibration #2
    High frequency vibration at highway speeds.. 50 - 70 only at light throttle.. goes away after ~20% throttle.. Also goes away when the clutch in engaged coasting. Carrier bearing? This vibration is speed dependent, not RPM dependent, the frequency of the vibration is the same in 5th gear as it is in 6th at those speeds. This tells me this vibration is after the transmission.. on the drive shaft side.

    The front diff. bushing is toast.. I already know this.. its going back to the dealer to get fixed.. but I dont think this will solve my highway vibration issue.. unless perhaps it moves the drive shaft out of line enough to flex the drive shaft.. we will see.

    Sorry if this post is a little wordy.. hard to convey these things in words.

    Any thoughts or advice is appreciated.

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  3. #2
    mattt0305's Avatar
    mattt0305 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Vibration issues, 2005 CTS 3.6 6 speed manual

    Can tell you for sure you have a bad flywheel. Yes we have a dual mass flywheel and the rocks in the tin can sound seals the deal. Mine did the same thing . I was worried it was an input shaft bearing too but all noises and vibrations gone with new flywheel. The old one literally fell apart as I was taking it out. Oh and if you search aisin ay6 you'll find one of its novel features is no pilot bearing so all the clutch alignment tools are worthless the hole in the crankshaft is too big. I wrapped masking tape around one till it was tight on the pressure plate fingers to center the disk.
    The other vibration is probably the flex disc on the transmission end of the driveshaft if it goes away as you add throttle. Check the pilot bushing on the driveshaft before you go buying flex discs. If its slopped out you'll just tear up the new flex discs. I kept throwing money at that and still ended up getting a new D.S.
    Oh and depending on how bad that flywheel vibration is stop driving it. I thought it was motor mounts at first and one was leaking when I got them out drove it for a few days and on different days both catalytic converters broke off at the flange where they bolt to the manifolds. The vibration wasn't that bad but the motor mounts must isolate it more than we think. Distinct about 1500 to 2500 rps. I guess it was enough to stress those welds.ugg bad memories. But hell I have a new car almost now.
    Spec clutch makes a drop in single mass flywheel but its pricey.

  4. #3
    spdweb.net is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 2005 CTS 3.6S, 6 speed manual, Black/Black/Black
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    Re: Vibration issues, 2005 CTS 3.6 6 speed manual

    Thanks for the very informational reply! What flywheel did you go with? OEM replacement? The vibration isnt too bad.. I probably wouldnt have noticed it if it were not for the accompanying noise. When I first got the car home I thought it had a rod bearing going bad and my heart sank.. nearly sounds like a rod knock... but after listening and listening some more I am pretty sure your right.. its the flywheel. Plus the noise gets less severe when you engage the clutch in neutral which a rod knock would not. From what I read the vibration only gets worse once it starts making noise so it will have to be replaced to satisfy my mechanical OCD.

    I have yet to take a peek under the front of the car.. What all in involved in changing the flywheel? I imagine dropping the exhaust and drive shaft of course but is there enough room to slide the transmission back to work or does it have to completely come out?

    The car is still under dealer warranty.. I will do my best to convince them THEY need to replace the flywheel but I dont see that being the case. They will probably come up with some excuse as to why its supposed to sound like that.. or some other reason all together. They are going to replace the differential bushing.. though that's hard to make an excuse for when the whole differential moves up and down half an inch.

  5. #4
    spdweb.net is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Vibration issues, 2005 CTS 3.6 6 speed manual

    Here is the noise in question. Can feel that " knock, Clacking" in the shifter as well.

    This video was taking with the clutch engaged.. gets slightly quieter with the clutch out in neutral which I did near the end of the video for the last rev..

    Vibration feels in sync with the knock at idle and just above.

    DMF Noise? 05 CTS: http://youtu.be/CBfL4rTGFO8

  6. #5
    mattt0305's Avatar
    mattt0305 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Vibration issues, 2005 CTS 3.6 6 speed manual

    Yes mine exactly! I first noticed mine at drive thru fast food places since the wall echoes everything back. Sit in neutral awful rocks tumbling knocking push the clutch in and way better. That's why I thought input shaft clutch in and input shaft not turning. I think its just the central part of the dmf has less stress on it then. I'll give you the in depth later after work.

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    mattt0305's Avatar
    mattt0305 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Vibration issues, 2005 CTS 3.6 6 speed manual

    http://www.specclutches.com/619304/s...sc36a-3-538190 OK I used an OEM flywheel as that's the only choice except the Spec. The Spec uses a proprietary pressure plate and disc that only Spec makes. Lots of choices from them though from stage 1 to carbon kevlar paddle style stage 5. $$$$$$$. The one that came out was stamped Sachs Germany as was the new one from GM. Ran about 375 dollars from big online dealer. The original pressure plate was marked Valeo made in Korea. Every kit except the Perfection clutch and Spec and Exedy no matter what brand or price I looked at was Valeo just reboxed. I bought a Luk kit very reasonable with the throw out bearing and it was exact to the original stuff down to the stamps.
    To change the clutch yes exhaust driveshaft needs to come out as does the transmission no sliding it back. I went by the factory service manual which is 90% right lol. The engine cradle has to be dropped at least 2" at the back and supported so the trans will clear the firewall. Then rotated clockwise about 40 degrees to remove it. Lots of stuff before you get to that point though. Remove the intermediate steering shaft from the rack, remove the back 2 cradle bolts and loosen the front 2. All the bell housing bolts are e14 external torx and the top one is horrible. Its behind a outlet assembly for the heater hoses and it must be removed dumping coolant everywhere even after you drain the radiator. I bought the real GM flywheel holder off eBay so the starter had to come out and all the flywheel bolts are Allen style heads. Something the factory manual leaves out is disconnect the heater hoses at the core before you drop the back of the cradle and now is the time to change them if so inclined. Oh gasket and o ring for that pipe assembly is a must. Shifter has to be disconnected and removed. Pull up on the knob and it and the boot will come off. There are 2 arms that hook to the trans itself and they have pins rotate and then you pull them out. The linkage at the shifter end is an Allen head bolt and nut. The trans end is a pin and clip. At that point what is left of your shifter bushings will fall out in pieces. Make new ones as they are not sold by anyone. Search aisin no reverse fix on here for instructions. Delrin and a lathe is best. Any questions just ask!

  8. #7
    spdweb.net is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 2005 CTS 3.6S, 6 speed manual, Black/Black/Black
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    Re: Vibration issues, 2005 CTS 3.6 6 speed manual

    Awesome... again thanks.. I changed the differential bushing this weekend.. talked the dealer into giving me the part and letting me install it myself. I have a problem with trusting people lol. While I was there I told them about the flywheel but they said they wouldn't replace it unless it failed completely.. worth a shot anyway. Bushing went in well.. used a shortcut and just rotated the diff down.. didn't have to remove the exhaust, etc. Used an air hammer to knock the old one out and a piece of all-thread, a big washer which I fabricated, and a large socket to press the new one into place. Changing the bushing took care of the clunk in the rear (obviously), but to my delight it also took care of the highway speed vibration. I believe the old bushing was so worn out that the diff was moving off center causing the drive shaft to flex and vibrate. The only thing left is that flywheel.. which isnt too bad at the moment. Noise and a slight vibration at idle to 1000rpm. It is something that will need attention in the future. I'll change the flywheel and the clutch at the same time to make myself feel better about it. The clutch is fine for now, but I have a feeling its never been replaced.. and at 104k miles its going to need replaced soon anyway.

    In other news.. I spent my long Easter weekend doing cosmetic changes.. slightly smoked the front turn signals/driving lights, smoked the side marker lights, smoked the reverse lights, sprayed the top of the 3rd tail light flat black as well as the B pillar panels on the doors. The panels on the front doors were all worn off.. I believe someone was using the door to get in and out of the car. I wrapped the chrome hood molding in carbon fiber and also resprayed the grill. I didnt want to go black on the grill as it would be too much black so I used an oil rubbed bronze finish. Its an extremely dark brown.. nearly black with bronze metallic in it. At night it looks black, but in sun you can see the metallic.

    Heres a peek. I was at my mother in laws bored out of my mind so what better to do then take some pics of my car lol

    This is before it will be ruined with that awful Maryland front licence plate. ugh

    IMAG0152.jpg

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